Who is the Puppet Master?

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
I also do not think that following the money will lead anywhere.

Neither do I. The power is Not in the money, it's in the people... as it always has been. BUT, and here's the kicker...

If you have enough money by which to influence the people, you can thereby effectively retain control... power.

media, markets, advertising, b l a h ...etc.

I'm not going to Tell you what to do, I'm going to make you Want to do it.
(?)

power

 

Originally posted by avingard
I wouldn't bet on Elizabeth II.

I would agree with you. In the UK it is the power behind the throne that has the most influence and due to a number of constraints, most significantly the Act of Settlement, the next in line can be vetoed if deemed unsuitable. For example if Prince William were to marry a Roman Catholic he would lose succession, in fact Charles could be vetoed for having married a divorcee - it has happened before.

In the UK the real control lies not with the Monarcy or the elected government but with the permanent civil service. This body is overseen by the family lines that have served the court of the monarchs of England for centuries - the Nevilles, the Percys, the Spencers...

William is, of course, not just of royal blood, through his mother he is a descendent of the Spencers (a distant cousin to Churchill too), 'commoners'. The family has belonged to the English/British court since the 1700s and have been enormously influential in shaping this country - from the Duke of Marlborough through to Winston Churchill and Diana herself. Whether this means anything is doubtful.

The wild card though would be Harry, if fate were to result in Harry being first in line his questionable parentage may become a greater issue.

The constitutional monarchy that we have in place has worked for those in control in the past, whether it continues to do so is another matter. The monarch is effectively neutered, and by having the monarchy the PM can be curtailed also.

It is the permanent civil service that control matters regarding the common-wealth, admiralty and security (secret services). They operate outside any governance but their own. Though theoretically answerable to the PM, this can only be applied if the PM knows what question to ask.

They will not draw the line at ousting a PM if they don't tow the line (see Harold Wilson) or is seen to represent a threat to their infrastructure.

The second world war saw a massive power struggle go on within the British establishment. Churchill gripped very hard to maintain his hold on Britain and to retain its independence.

It is difficult to ascertain which side won in the end, or if indeed the fighting ever stopped.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c

media, markets, advertising, b l a h ...etc.

I'm not going to Tell you what to do, I'm going to make you Want to do it.
(?)

power

Precisely.

It's not what you've got, it is what you do with it.

The first step is the retention of wealth across generations, for this you need a Family Trust. This allows the creator of the wealth to direct how that wealth can be used and how it can be controlled.

The idea gained popularity with the Quakers and their supporters in the 1800s as a means to ensure that their good work was not corrupted.

The UK Quakers were hugely influential in the UK from the mid-1700s onwards, due to their fulsome embrace of the protestant work ethic many accumulated great wealth in the industrial revolution.

As their beliefs prohibited them from profiting from the labour of others, they created Trusts which would give back to the workers and people that supported their industry. All over the UK there are model villages created by Trusts to house their workers - they built hospitals and reformed mental health treatment and funded sociological studies. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation in York, where I live, still leads the way in studying poverty and living standards. Dead for over 80 years but his wishes for the money that he earnt are still being carried out and have an impact on our society.

This is a positive example, but it is still social-engineering.

The Quakers wished to share the good fortune that god had bestowed upon them with those that had worked along side them. Not everyone who gained wealth at this time had such high moral standards , but they could still create a Family Trust that would ensure that that wealth was only used in accordance with their wishes.

Many of the Quaker Trusts have diminshed considerably and are highly localised. You don't profit from giving to the needy - especially when year by year the need gets greater.

The Rockefeller Foundation is one of the prime movers in social engineering and has been since the early 20th century. The fact of its continued expansion is proof enough that the Rockefeller Trust is not just about giving. Similarly the NM Rothschild Trust. The belief structure here is based presumably on one hand giving while the other takes away (with a little extra for their trouble no doubt). Dualism at its most extreme and damaging. Whether or not they have any relationship with a god is debatable but they certainly do not have the honest and open motives of the Quakers.

The thing about a Family Trust which makes it so effective is that they are beyond scrutiny. It is a will that never dies and therefore is never made public (most wills in the UK become public record after settlement). We know that Joseph Rowntree set the constraints that his wealth be used to improve living conditions for the working classes because that is declared by the Trust, but we don't know what John D Rockefeller or Mayer Rothschild dictated.

And these are just a few examples.

Either way it is clear that social engineering has been the occuring on a grand scale since the 1900s, these activities have intensified since the end of the second world war. Therefore in my opinion it is only by scrutinising the first half of the 20th century will we find the "Puppet Masters". Those that ended up at the top of the heap in the closing stages of the second world war are the people that control the world today. (IMO)

Lets assume that we, AS ATS, would have to take our case to court. That means we would have to get our story straight, our view straight and reach some kind of consensus at least within ATS.

But all Ive learned from this thread is how everyone disagrees on the levels of power...who has more, who has less, where to look? The reason for the disagreement is that we dont know. Something that is KNOWN, everyone agrees on. Everyone agrees that G.W.Bush is the current president. Everyone agrees that water can be used for drinking.

So....what can we all agree on here?

Can we all agree that it would be interesting to have a look at water/food and who controls their traffic? Any experts here that can shed light on this?

Can we all agree that the puppet masters are not likely to be in the foreground?

What can we agree on concerning money and bankers?

What can we agree on concerning the media?

Who are the puppet masters? Or is it not possible to create absolute power on earth because of the competitiveness of human nature?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Who are the puppet masters? Or is it not possible to create absolute power on earth because of the competitiveness of human nature?

Smart people dont compete, they work together. Why do you think big corporations buy smaller ones? Why are there laws against monopolies?

The nazi scientists went to the US after the war to continue their work there instead. A smart move.



[edit on 17-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
So....what can we all agree on here?

Can we all agree that it would be interesting to have a look at water/food and who controls their traffic?

Yes

Can we all agree that the puppet masters are not likely to be in the foreground?

Yes, if it is actually one person or a group of people at all.

What can we agree on concerning money and bankers?

That they will gladly take your money! Though, I do think greed (survival) is a key factor.

What can we agree on concerning the media?

They are the means of control (through data and information) which effects the psychology of the masses in order to manipulate their behavior. Ultimately for who and for what is the question.

SWFQW:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Who are the puppet masters? Or is it not possible to create absolute power on earth because of the competitiveness of human nature?

This is closer to the truth. I think the answer to our question is more philosophical than human. The natural order of things is to exploit a situation in order to "survive". As humans have evolved we have redefined this to mean "succed," "win," "profit," etc. We have to have an outlet for our most basic instinct. Human nature and the machine of society and civilization are the closest thing we will find to an answer.

Example:
A man wants to support his family (survive). He develops a product or concept to sell and make money (exploit). He hires another man to work for him (survive). The owner pays the man a bare minimum so he has more money for his own family (exploit). The worker is not satisfied but stays because he is happy to have a job to support is family (survive). The owner cuts corners and cheats his customers to keep more money for himself (exploit). The worker knows but is complicit because he needs his job (survive). The owner and the worker are just a finite part of the machine of society and civilization and this scenario is repeated millions of times around the world. Now the workers might try to band together to fight for better pay or benefits (survive), but the owners have the monetary resources and control to mount unlimited counter measures to resist change (exploit). Some people ( read elite, PTB, whatever) are just naturally more skilled at survival and exploitation.

We are all doing this to each other. We are all part of a huge structure of society, some may call it a machine. It requires us to exploit, capitulate and compromise in order to survive. The more civilized the society in which you exist, the greater the compromise you will be required to make.

A tribesman in Africa sacrifices much less of his integrity and principles than a lawyer in New York city.



[edit on 17/10/2007 by kosmicjack]

its either a rockefeller, a rothschild, or the leader of the bilderburgs. imho

reply to post by kosmicjack


Nice point on the machinery of society. And still...I WANT TO KNOW and YOU WANT TO KNOW and the OP WANTS TO KNOW....who is the most skilled at the game?

Does it really boil down to a few families as other posters here suggest?

I am starving for NEW information.

Well illustrated KosmicJack!

If I may weigh in on the conversation I'd like to add a little more. This thread specifically asks who is the top dog, who is the master exploiter, (who is the lowest common denominator). I've read the "48 Laws of Power" (very cynically comedic!) and have been on the receiving end of many Machiavellian (sp?) tactics, as I'm sure many of you have too. Coupling that with what I remember from college, I think there is an underlying criteria we could use to sniff the mastermind out. And this is all just my opinion...

Let me state up front that there are many forms of power, which include:
- Info gathering/knowledge (ie. CIA, college, etc)
- Physical/mental leverage (ie. gangs with guns, coersion, etc)
- Spiritual/psychic leverage (ie. organized religion, cults, etc)
- Political leverage
- Control of natural resources
etc, etc.

A good puppet-master has a diverse portfolio of power, not just control of money, (money is practically meaningless when a loaded gun is put in your face. Get my drift?). And as the term implies, they would have leverage on those who control specific areas of our lives. If I were to look for the head honcho I'd try to find out who the smaller head honchos are and see if they trace back to a common source. In otherwords, who do all of those people rub elbows with? This is just a criteria I would use.

Sorry if I rambled or stated the obvious...

[edit on 17-10-2007 by Flux8]

reply to post by Flux8



Okay, so I will walk the line here...

I am no economist but the Banks (gasp!) are the most diverse. They own a bit of everything. Also, it is a generally known principle that the entity that supplies the capital (money) holds most of the control in any given situation.

So it would follow that we need to look for a Bank, Primary Investor/ Capitalist or Corporation that has a very diversified portfolio of assets including: resource commodities, industry, media, government subsidizing, innovative technologies, etc.

So who owns/controls the most or the biggest banking or investment interests? Sorry SkyFloating, I can't throw out a name, it's not my area of expertise.

The NWO conspiracy theorists were right after all!

Of course we are all missing the obvious: SKEPTIC OVERLORD! AAGGHHH! Run for your lives!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by kosmicjack

 

Nice point on the machinery of society. And still...I WANT TO KNOW and YOU WANT TO KNOW and the OP WANTS TO KNOW....who is the most skilled at the game?

Does it really boil down to a few families as other posters here suggest?

I am starving for NEW information.

well, you could try to find a list of bilderbergers, and try to figure out who is calling their shots, cross reference with bush sr, and the rothschilds and rockefellers and see if one person is a common denominator in all the organizations


or maybe its just lucifer himself

Power comes and always has come from knowledge. I'm sure everyone has heard the phrase "Knowledge = Power". If you look back in time you will see that all of the first universities were created by people with great power, for people with great power. Secret societies initially started as meeting places where individuals could relay information and knowledge back and forth. This goes exactly in line with what many conspiracy theorists believe today; about governments hiding information from their people. Whether it is defense related, new technology, etc.

Do a little research on who created the first universities. You may find what you are looking for. As far as money goes: money is not used to gain power in the public eye. Money is used to control public made/elected organizations and institutions. You will not find the "richest man in the world" from looking at Forbes as previously stated. In fact, you will not find the "richest man in the world" period. You may find with great research the richest family in the world, however.

The most lucrative business in the world is not religion, government, or oil. It is banking! Do some research on the history of central banking.


P.S.
Can we try to spell correctly as we're typing away at our conspiracy theories? Some of these posts are interesting but I cannot be the only one taken back by the lack of correct grammer and spelling.

OK, I missed this thread but was asked to comment.
Not sure why, as I am not an expert on stuff like this.

Everyone seems to think the Puppet Master is someone behind the scenes, someone no one really knows much about. Well, I have a name for you then.

His name is William E. Conway Jr. What? Never heard of him? [Most of this comes from Wikipedia] Well, he is definitely not the anti-christ or anything of the sorts, but he does have some incrdulous dealings. He is the founder of an investment firm called the Carlyle Group. This is an extremely large hedge fund, based out of Washington DC. They have over $75 billion in capital under management. Did you hear that? WASHINGTON DC based. One of their first investments that put them on the map was United Defense Industries in 1997, which they took public years later and completely sold of in 2004. William E. Conway has turned to philanthropy and is a huge supporter of the Roman Catholic church, not that means anything . They are the power brokers of power brokers and have aligned themselves with the like of Lou Gertsner, Richard Branson and other flamboyant money makers around the globe.

2 interesting investments are a 33.8% stake in QinetiQ, the private UK defense department, and US Investigation Services, which is the privatized arm of the United States Office of Personnel Management's Office of Federal Investigations.

I am not labeling him a puppet master, but just giving you a name of a true power broker, that little is know about. His firm remains an aggresive acquirer of all industries.

I will try to come up with a better example of puppet master. This was just a shot in the dark since most feel he is a behind the scenes guy.

Been doing some more reading on this guy....... Gerstner, the former leader of IBM and current manager of the Carlyle Group is or was a Bilderberger. While Clinton was in office they continued to recieve large contracts fed to the United Defense Group company. The firm has ties to both President Bush's, the Bin Laden family, has been affiliated with George Soros, Arthur Levitt (former chairman of the SEC), the Chairman of the Power Corpoation of Canada, the CEO of Bombardier, James Baker III, Donald Rumsfeld, ....let me just post the link.

www.answers.com...


VERY INTERESTING!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I am off to bed. Have to get up tomorrow and sell some stocks!

His name is Pieter-Hans, Count Kolvenbach

He is currently the Superior General of the Society of Jesus. And lovingly referred to as "the black pope."

He answers "only" to the pope; many have argued that the pope instead answers to him.

He replaced Pedro Arupe in 1984. WHile Arupe had been liberal and the force behind Vatican II, Kolvenbach is much more theologically conservative---as John Paul II's theology became after 1984. Likewise his fostering of the even more conservative Ratzinger, whom he elevated to the office of Prefect of the Congregation for the doctrine of the faith.

Kolvenbach has stunned catholic scholars and jesuits worldwide by his promise to step down in 2008. If he does so, he will be the first Superior General of the Jesuits to abdicate.

The Jesuits elect their own leader through a process with member congregations, analogous to the member banks of the Federal Reserve Bank of the USA. So there's no way to predict who will replace Kolvenbach, although there are some favorites.

One is Fr. Orlando Torres, former provincial of Puerto Rico. Another, (more likely if an Hispanic is chosen, IMO) is Fr. Jose Morales, the rector of the IberoAmerican University in Mexico City.

Stay tuned for world events following Epiphany (January 6) 2008.

.

A couple of folks have emailed me about various issues with my post upstairs.

I'm not wedded to the idea that the Jesuits run the planet; but that is only because I'm not an ideologue. I don't reach conclusions--I form hypotheses and and think in terms of probabilities rather than conclusions.

For those who question whether the Roman Catholic Church is really a global player, let me give you some background, especially US protestants who are innocent of any real knowledge of how the RCC operates world wide.

-Back in 1972, when the "plumbers" broke into the Watergate Hotel, that hotel was owned by . . . the Vatican.

-When Manuel Noriega fled during the US invasion of Panama in 1989, he fled to . . . the Apostolic Nunciature (Vatican Embassy) in Panama City. U.S. marines surrounded the building and played loud rock music and the "howard stern" radio show. But they didn't set foot in the compound. When the pope called bush 41 and told him to turn down the radio, it was immediately turned off. Noriega eventually came out on his own.

-One third of the world's humans profess Christianity. Of those, 80% identify themselves as Catholic. Roughly 1.6 billion people.

-On the day of the 1987 Stock Market Crash, the Federal Reserve pumped money into the Chicago Board of Trade, to underwrite loans against commodity futures that were in danger of being exercised and shutting down the whole system. The fed did this by borrowing the needed funds from the Vatican. Did the vatican have funds in the US to cover the loan. Yes-- they had Seventy Million Ounces of Gold on deposit at the New York Federal Reserve Bank.

-They have observer status at the UN, and are key in some of the most tense negotiations internationally. That in itself gives them incredible power. They are also immune from the international court of justice . . .

-On a personal note, having travelled widely in the the middle east during um, unstable times, I can tell you that your best bet in the midst of a crisis is not the US embassy. Just look at the way they left people hanging in Lebanon last summer. The french were more help. When I have been trapped in a foreign country during a regime change, the Vatican Embassy is my goal. No one, of any faith, has ever attacked a vatican embassy. And they take credit cards, even on Sunday. They also will exchange currency for a trifling fee, usually 1.5% And I'm not even catholic.


So, does the catholic church really run the world? I would say that is seriously unproven. On the other hand . . . they are probably deeply involved, since they sit at every table, and come and go without interference in just about every nation. They have been practicing espionage for at least a thousand years, and they pay no taxes.


As far as the Jesuits running the pope, The Superior General hears the pope's confessions. But that's an issue for another thread. . . .

all the best.

Excellent background info Dr. Strangecraft. You always give me something to think about and it usually ends up changing my perspective.

Trader as well. Eye-opening details.

If it is even still bankers we're looking at...it's definitely Catholic bankers! (Hey I can laugh, I'm a half-hearted Catholic!)

Now we have names, a jumping off point for investigation and debate.
I have to finish catching up on all of the excellent links you guys have suggested.

I guess no one liked my ideas. Hope I did not derail the thread Kosmick!

reply to post by traderonwallst


No, we gave your idea stars. You at least provided a name that is fairly unknown. 75 Billion is way up there. Now we have this guy + a Jesuit Priest as candidates.

Lets repeat the brainstorming question: WHO IS THE BIGGEST PUPPET MASTER OF PUPPET MASTERS?