Ron Paul just reshaped History, as the Conspiracy against him went into Defcon4, page 3

reply to post by Copernicus

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Hi, Copernicus. I usually like your posts. That doesn't mean I don't like this one. lol

A puppet is a puppet is a puppet. I believed in the utopian democracy for many years, until I observed the evidence all around me that we live in anything but that. After much study, research and pondering, I came to the awareness that we've been duped.

The only thing that will save this country, beyond divine interference - i.e. powers from above - or a coalition from foreign shores who see the danger and help the hostages within our borders, will be our own people actually rising up in revolt, again. Then, may they never fall asleep, being ever vigilant.

Of all the candidates vying for the presidency, Ron Paul makes sense. Whether he's real or a potential target, remains to be seen. If he is nominated, I might consider voting for him. I have no intentions of voting, because the past two elections were stolen, so why bother?

Rallying on the internet, posting flyers and getting in touch with those who support that warm fuzzy feeling in your tummy that fans the flames of hope, like any religion, does not mean that Ron Paul is the chosen one. If those who believe in Dr. Paul are such fervent zealots, then they will need to also address people like me - cynics and skeptics.

I feel justified in being both. If they rage at me for not jumping on their red-white-and-blue bandwagon, then I point out that most of them probably jumped on Gore's and Kerry's bandwagon, as well. Neither of those people would make a good president, in my opinion.

I am not an extremist. Right-wing and left-wing bother me. Radical is fine, but have a purpose and it should encompass what's best for the many, not the few. I would prefer that Ron Paul run as an Independent. Running as a Republican stinks and makes me think that even he realizes he can't affect the two-party system. So, why should I believe any different.

If Ron Paul is real and believes he can change our government, that he's better than all before him, then I think he's deluded or a pawn. Our president is a figurehead and answers to a committee. The gauntlet to be endured in attaining that hallowed position is not one easily run by an outsider. The Bush-Clinton-Bush Dynasty and their masters will not allow it.

The people thought Gore won. Awww. Then they thought Kerry won. Crap! Now, they think Ron Paul has a chance. The people are not willing to get dirty and bloody, yet. Until then, it won't happen. The next president has been decided and, now, we're just going through the media formalities. Your anointed one and all her grumpy minions are playing their parts, including Ron Paul.

I gave up hope after 2004 was stolen. If there is a real revolt that doesn't require ballots, then I'm with you. Until then, I'm not wasting my time.

Thanks for your response.

namaste

Originally posted by katmandu
reply to post by Arcane Demesne

If he is, then why hasn't he done something about it, until now? We sure could have used his candidacy 20 years ago. I don't care how he's voted over the years. Why haven't we heard from him, till now?

First off, he's not 'my man.' He's just an honest politician, the only who is even close to my views onpolitics.

And as Golack said, he ran as Libertarian in '88. If you didn't know that, you're either living under a rock and don't deserve to debate this issue, or you're trolling. He's been in numerous documentaries and on TV MANY times telling the FED pretty much to their faces, that they need to shape up, or be done away with. Watch C-SPAN, jeebus. I'm not a Poly Sci hawk, so I'm not constantly keeping track of everything in Washington, and even I was hoping for him to run even before he put out his exploratory committee. If someone as young and 'out of it' as me knew who Dr. Paul was, you're not trying hard enough to educate yourself about this subject.

Thanks for the great thread IIb.

Ya know, I've become so sick and a bit disillusioned over the years with the status quo in national and to a lesser degree, local politics.
The closer one looks at an issue or candidate, generally the more disgusted one becomes at the voting record, or at the bills introduced at the behest of some special interest, big money group, etc. And of course, the fiscal irresponsibilty shown, as tho Americans are an endless source of cash for pet projects.

It just becomes nauseating.
To the point where you stop looking too closely at the same old riff raff trying to buy their way into office.
So, I've gradually stepped away from the whole sordid mess, became apathetic.
I admit to having overlooked this guy.
I had some vague notion that he was another Meru, or Perot. That is to say, a little wacky. I blame this impression on the corrupt Media in this country.
So. Your post got me interested in checking him out.
I was pleasently suprised at what I found in a very cursory search.
Excellent!
After a little more research, if nothing is amiss, you may have just got yourself a convert.
This looks like my guy. Not a perfect fit, but far closer than the status quo!
Of course my immediate thought was "I'm just gonna throw away my vote".
Well. Here's how I look at it after a little reflection.
The big money status quo parties need to be sent a message. A wake up call that the 'Golden Geese' are just about ready to stop laying those golden eggs. We're tired. Tired of supporting a corrupt and wasteful Big Gov.
I like his mildly 'isolationist' policies. We need to withdraw a bit from the global scene.
I love his fiscal responsibilty, and voting record on such.

So, in the end, if you vote your conscience, it's not wasted. That is simply the brainwashing that the media, and control parties want you to believe.
This is how they keep real change from occuring.
And we must change.
The thought of Empress Hitlary in power makes me gag.
Check her out in action, already subverting the process:

www.mercurynews.com...
She's already been coronated in the back rooms of the DNC.
The press will report it as 'Hitlary wins Michigan in a landslide, if they haven't already. Complete orchestrated crap.

Anyway.
Here's just a snippet of what I like :

Paul says his fellow members of Congress have increased government spending by 75% during George W. Bush's administration.[3] After a 2005 bill was touted as "slashing" government waste, Paul wrote that it decreased spending by a fraction of one percent and that "Congress couldn't slash spending if the members' lives depended on it."[71] Paul said that between 2001 and early 2004 he had voted against more than 700 bills intended to expand government.

.

He seems to like to play by the rules, as opposed to the Empress, who likes to subvert them.
Ron looks good on paper. So far....

reply to post by Arcane Demesne

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Again, your tone is not one of enticing me to listen to you. Apparently, you just want to engage in inflammatory debate. I am interested in Ron Paul, if he's the real deal. I don't know if he's an "honest politician," as you claim. That is an oxymoronic term, in my opinion.

I don't troll. If I'm ignorant about something, I'll admit it. Just because you're seemingly aware of something doesn't mean you hold the key. If my opinion differs from yours or I offer skepticism to your unshakeable faith, then that makes me a troll? Please.

If I'm not aware of Dr. Paul's past, I don't watch C-Span or other TV, I have been equally as duped as the rest of the sheeple who believed in mass media, at one time, or I'm just a political idiot and never gave it much thought, don't you think you should change your tone, unless you truly don't care about winning over the people?

Considering that I voted for Reagan, the first time, because I was young and dumb and quickly became disenchanted with the political process, I didn't bother with the rest of the 80's. If that, to you, means I was living under a rock, then I'll agree. Until now, I wasn't aware of who truly held the key, so I apologize for being so ignorant, Wise One.

I voted in 2004, because I knew how important it was after seeing Gore ripped off. I think I'm aware enough, thank you very much.

You're not trying hard enough to appeal to my ignorance. Your bedside manner is rude and churlish. You need me to support Ron Paul, if he's truly the cat's meow. Otherwise, why are you on your crusade? Take a hint from Golack and just post a link. I can be edumacated. I'm interested in learning. I could even be swayed, but I doubt it will be from someone with your approach.

And as for not deserving to debate this issue, it is that mentality that has ruined this country. Those who feel they are morally, intellectually, spiritually and politically superior to others think they can condescend and ignore anyone who doesn't agree with them, whether they're uninformed or not.

I believe Dr. Paul would appreciate it if you took a class in bedside manners. If I'm the patient and you know what ails me, then I think I'd rather die than be saved by your hand.

Truth should be transparent. It doesn't require an angry or disparaging tone when conveyed, as though blustery bloviation will make it stronger and more self evident. You didn't read my posts, apparently, for I am chastising our system, not Ron Paul. I postulate skepticism, not outright denial of who or what he is.

I'll remain a skeptic and I'll continue to watch the system...and Dr. Paul. Finally, I can make friends as quickly as I make enemies. You pull back your harsh tone with me...and I'll listen to what you have to say about Ron Paul and the system. Fair enough?

namaste

reply to post by katmandu

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I've known about him for close to a decade. His voting record is easily accessible, I suggest you look at it if you don't find him to be the real thing.

Here's an interview from 1988, his message is the same:


www.youtube.com...

reply to post by katmandu

I admit, I was a bit brash. I've been debating for Dr. Paul all week and it's clear that I'm a little quick to the punch, I do need to pull back, and I apologize.

As for links and such. Please read and watch these at your convenience. Some are quite long.

watch:

www.youtube.com...
a bunch here: www.ronpaulnation.com...
freedom to fascism: video.google.com...


read:

www.house.gov...
www.house.gov...
www.jonesreport.com...
www.usagold.com...
www.picassodreams.com...


That's not even a microscopic dent to the giant tank of Ron Paul media out there.
Just do some googling and YouTubing to find out that Congressman Ron Paul really is who he says he is, always has been, and his main goal is exactly what people say he shouldn't do. And that goal is to change America drastically, for the better. To be freer, healthier, and more prosperous.

Again, I apologize for being abrasive, but you have to realize how outspoken we Ron Paul supporters are. We have used hours upon hours of our own time to research these things. Nothing in the Main Stream Media will point you to Dr. Paul, it's all homework done by each supporter. That's why we're so vibrant about him, and why it's hard to help people see just who he is, because of this conspiracy to smother him into oblivion.

Please, read and watch as much as you can. If you indeed agree with his views, and approve of his message, won't you please spread the good word so that our once great nation may see a glimmer of hope near the end of the tunnel.

reply to post by PistolPete

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Thanks for the link. I've been reading up on Dr. Paul and - with most of his viewpoints, I concur. I have concerns about his unraveling of all government, especially with regard to privatization and allowing the market decide. Hmm, can anyone say Blackwater?

A good government with ethics and morals would be a far different beast than what we've had for many years, now. Checks and balances upon private industry are needed, for it is human nature to take advantage of each other.

I've watched many of his videos. Trust me, of all the candidates, he is way ahead of the pack, but whether I'll choose to play the game of voting, again, remains to be seen.

I don't trust the system. The more I study Ron Paul and notice his consistency and seemingly genuine honesty and integrity, I allow myself to wonder if the people might be able to wake up and actually do anything about it. Or, even if he is the real deal, will the system take him out?

The shadow elite have proven that they will kill to keep their power. This next year will be interesting, in the very least. Regardless of Paul's authenticity, the key will be whether the system has been so corrupted as to even allow him entry into the inner chambers of power, which are verboten to the uninitiated. I think we're way past the point of anyone within or without the system being able to use the system to fix it.

It's like having a machinist's lathe that is not turning true and, over time, it gets more wobbly, so you use the lathe to turn a tool to fix the machine. Since the machine turns out an inferior product, I doubt that the new tool can properly fix the lathe. Sometimes, it's better to toss the old machine and build a new one, using better tools.

I'm grumpy and feel like Charlie Brown as Lucy smiles and places the football on the turf, urging me to trust her pretty smile and batting baby blues, as she prepares to jerk the pigskin away at the last moment, like every time before this one.

So far, no one has shown me anything to make me believe that we're playing a different game. However, thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

namaste

reply to post by Arcane Demesne

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An excellent response and I welcome this approach. I can understand your enthusiasm and I hope that you can understand my skepticism.

I will study all of these links and I appreciate your input. I feel that you should take my skepticism and concerns back to Dr. Paul and have him address them. In fact, that would be a much better way to convince me that his fight stands half a chance.

For instance, with all I've mentioned about the system and The Powers That Be, I don't think it too absurd to have Ron Paul actually comment upon any, alleged, conspiracy theories, especially as they relate to running for president, whether it's 9-11 or the world bankers and corporations that run the planet.

Why does he feel that running as a Republican is the best way? Is it because he coudn't make it on the Libertarian ticket? We need a third or more parties to break the lock on the Capitol. I want someone that is independent from the others who have been proven corrupt.

I haven't read Congressman Paul's opinion on all the issues, but I probably concur with 90% or more of his take on American policies, both foreign and domestic. My concern is simple: Other than some mass shift in consciousness, what makes his stance more relevant, today?

I believe it is very revealing that he has remained consistent on all these issues for so long, during his congressional service, yet it is business as usual in Washington and the nation is mired in deceit, war, privatization, imperialism and everything that Dr. Paul waves the flag against.

This, alone, makes me very skeptical of his chance for change.

I don't intend to vote for anyone, at this time. If I do vote and Ron Paul remains alive and consistent, then I would vote for him just in case my single vote can make a difference, but I want to see the masses waking up, or it's no different than 2000 & 2004. If it's going to be a marginal victory, then I don't think he can win. They will cheat, again.

I'm very pessimistic that the system will allow him to even get to nomination for the Republican ticket, much less win the White House. There is much time to watch this unfold and every step will be noted.

Observing his intelligent, logical and sincere debates and questions of Congress or the Fed is compelling, but I sense that most of his political peers are either dismissive of the man and his too-good-to-be-true idealism, or they are too fearful to join him on his crusade. Thus, the overall dilemma remains that he is David taking on Goliath.

Though I will cheer for an honorable underdog and am willing to fight, I don't believe in charging a machine gun nest while relying on only god to protect me, until I see that more of the country is ready to pitch in and get their noses bloodied, with me.

Only with divine providence providing the perfect smooth stones for Dr. Paul's slingshot do I see his campaign culminating in a reclaiming of our democracy from the evil that permeates the corridors of power in Washington D.C.

Or, we could all join a real revolt, which I would sign up for, today, but most would rather slip further into communism or fascism than feel any pain.

Thanks and best wishes.

namaste

Wow, this thread took off today

I'm on limited PC access at the moment and have engagements today so my response time is limited.

Originally posted by drivin98
I live in Florida and can't vote in the primary because I'm registered as an independent. I'm not a "joiner". I refuse to register as anything but independent. I usually vote somewhat to the left. I'll vote for Paul if his name is on the final ballot because he is the only one running (besides Gravel and Kucinich) with any integrity even if I don't agree with some of his positions.

The Primary vote is all that matters. If Ron paul gets it then he'll landslide right over Hitlery. If he misses the nomination its game over. Just switch to Rep for the Primary, and then switch back afterwards and you can vote for whoever int he real election. That's what I'm doing and I'm one of the staunchest anti-Left/Right critics around. The Primaries is all where your affiliation even matters.


Here goes a choice flyer I whipped up last night:
i24.photobucket.com...
I have it in full quality 1, 2 & 4 page layouts. Email:
ignoranceisntbliss@hotmail.com

reply to post by Lightworth

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He is pro-life, but he would throw the issue back to the states, effectively overturning Roe v Wade. To me, that's not the most important issue. Paul would immediately withdraw our troops, would never preemtively strike, would consult congress before waging a strike (an act of war), would stop nation building and other meddling, would rebuild our friendships, would get us out of NAFTA and the WTO, and would deport illegal aliens. He also wants to eliminate the CIA and IRS. I just saw Greenspan inteviewed by Chris Matthews, and Greenspan agreed with Paul's vision regarding taxes, which surprised the heck out of me. Never voted Republican, but I'd vote for him.

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
its all gonna happen again isn't it?

how many times are you Americans gonna let them trample over the popular vote?

i bet ron paul wins in a landslide.... however i doubt the results will reflect this .. it is patently obvious even to this uniformed Brit, that you have serious problems with fair representation and your voting system..

Dont give up people!!!! get this guy elected and maybe the whole world will breath a collective sigh of relief as the crazies are removed from power.

Please , please i hope you have a fair election. the whole of the worlds eyes are upon you do the right thing!!!!

Well said, "uniformed Brit".
Maybe you can help.
If you are a member of other blogs, other sites. Help us get the word out, electronically.
The Corrupt Status Quo media in this country is bought and paid for. By whoever the Puppet Masters are. Call them the Bilderbergers, Iluminatii, whoever.
It is now obvious that 'they' will not let RP's message be heard by the masses thru the Corrupt Status Quo media. But we now have the power. For the first time since the revolution. It's at your fingertips.
It is your keyboard.
Please go to www.google.com...
you and your friends. And anyone else reading this. Tell your friends. Even if you are in Jolly old England. Think of the power of being on National tv (E4?) and holding up huge banners "Ron Paul for Prez" !
If that makes headlines over here, then people will listen. It will become a 'story' that media would have to follow and show on prime time tv.
Send quotes or comments into youtube. Upload pictures of your banner there.
Let's start some buzz. I'm sick of same old puppets.
Upoad video of any public speeches or pbs documentary of him, to you tube. Myspace. wherever. Get the word out.
We've got the power, we just don't wield it. We're lazy, and overworked and over taxed, and have"somebodyelsewilldoit" disease.

I think I'm going to get yard signs, and bumper stickers, and pins, and flyers from my local meetup.org.
I suggest you do the same.
Let's siphon off some of those 'bought and paid for' votes, guys.

www.google.com...

Ooops! looks like someone is trying to take down RP's biggest base website. Under attack? Check this out!
And any code warriors out there--- please check this and donate some help!!!



www.military4paul.com...


The following information is meant for the website developer for debugging purposes.

Error Occurred While Processing Request
File not found: /sites/military4paul.com/viewdeclaration.cfm


Resources:
Check the ColdFusion documentation to verify that you are using the correct syntax.
Search the Knowledge Base to find a solution to your problem.


Browser Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
Remote Address 4.248.252.65
Referrer www.google.com...
Date/Time 16-Oct-07 07:17 PM

Stack Trace (click to expand)



coldfusion.runtime.TemplateNotFoundException: File not found: /sites/military4paul.com/viewdeclaration.cfm
at coldfusion.filter.PathFilter.invoke(PathFilter.java:83)
at coldfusion.filter.ExceptionFilter.invoke(ExceptionFilter.java:69)
at coldfusion.filter.ClientScopePersistenceFilter.invoke(ClientScopePersistenceFilter.java:28)
at coldfusion.filter.BrowserFilter.invoke(BrowserFilter.java:38)
at coldfusion.filter.GlobalsFilter.invoke(GlobalsFilter.java:38)
at coldfusion.filter.DatasourceFilter.invoke(DatasourceFilter.java:22)
at coldfusion.filter.RequestThrottleFilter.invoke(RequestThrottleFilter.java:115)
at coldfusion.CfmServlet.service(CfmServlet.java:107)
at coldfusion.bootstrap.BootstrapServlet.service(BootstrapServlet.java:78)
at jrun.servlet.ServletInvoker.invoke(ServletInvoker.java:91)
at jrun.servlet.JRunInvokerChain.invokeNext(JRunInvokerChain.java:42)
at jrun.servlet.JRunRequestDispatcher.invoke(JRunRequestDispatcher.java:257)
at jrun.servlet.ServletEngineService.dispatch(ServletEngineService.java:541)
at jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyService.invokeRunnable(JRunProxyService.java:204)
at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$DownstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:318)
at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$ThreadThrottle.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:426)
at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$UpstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:264)
at jrunx.scheduler.WorkerThread.run(WorkerThread.java:66)






[edit on 16-10-2007 by Alexander the o.k.]

reply to post by Alexander the o.k.

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I see what you mean. It looks like that site is down. I hope it's not a hacker attack, I wouldn't put it past them though.

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