Why do we humans think that we know the keys to salvation?

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posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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Why do we humans think that we know the keys to salivation? We live in a reality where we believe that we are superior to the rest of nature and even other people. We dont know truth!!! This reality is a lot bigger than this planet we call earth and there are a lot of forces that have shaped civilization and the beliefs of the masses. We must walk the middle path.

In these days you cant tell truth from deceit. The war for the 21st centurty is not the war on terrorism but the war for the human mind. Fear is the only reason we let these institutions run our lives. They control everything but I refuse to let them control my beliefs with a false promise of salvation. How do they know? From a book that they copied and pasted together? In this Western world we want proof of everything but when it comes spiritual belief we just jump on the ban wagon. Dont subscribe to their way of thought my people. Search for the answers to your question. God the Most High leads only those with pure intentions. If you only want salvation because you dont to go to Hell, then you are truly lost. Come up with a better reason to be saved than that.


There is that better


[Edited on 26-1-2004 by DaTruth]




posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 03:31 PM
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Heaven and Hell are Control mechanism.

The fact of the matter is, we dont not have definative proof on either of these, nor do we have proof of "God".

God should be renderd a "myopic" force.

For centuries we have abided by scriptures written through the days and ages, "logic and reasoning" of the unknown.

The best way to live life, is to worry about the life your living in "Now", its such a primative and negating ideology to worry of our future incarnations, or wether or not Heavens gate will be around the corner.

Deep



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 03:36 PM
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Erhm, no offense DaTruth, but, I do think you mean salvation, as opposed to salivation.

One is the saving of all souls.

The other is the process of creating an acidic liquid inside your mouth.




posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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Most humans know in their heart that the key to salivation is having a big juicy steak and an ice cold beer in front of them.



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by DaTruth
We must walk the middle path.

Could you expand on this a little? What is the middle path?

God the Most High leads only those with pure intentions. If you only want salvation because you dont to go to Hell, then you are truly lost. Come up with a better reason to be saved than that.

Sadly, if you are correct, there will be few who get into heaven. While I understand your point, it excludes too many. god wants people to love him just because, yes, but I doubt he will exclude any of his followers because of their reasons for coming to him.
At least I hope he isn't that cold.

Peace,
BG



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by DaTruth
Why do we humans think that we know the keys to salivation? We live in a reality where we believe that we are superior to the rest of nature and even other people. We dont know truth!!! This reality is a lot bigger than this planet we call earth and there are a lot of forces that have shaped civilization and the beliefs of the masses. We must walk the middle path.

In these days you cant tell truth from deceit. The war for the 21st centurty is not the war on terrorism but the war for the human mind. Fear is the only reason we let these institutions run our lives. They control everything but I refuse to let them control my beliefs with a false promise of salvation. How do they know? From a book that they copied and pasted together? In this Western world we want proof of everything but when it comes spiritual belief we just jump on the ban wagon. Dont subscribe to their way of thought my people. Search for the answers to your question. God the Most High leads only those with pure intentions. If you only want salvation because you dont to go to Hell, then you are truly lost. Come up with a better reason to be saved than that.


[Edited on 25-1-2004 by DaTruth]


The keys to SALIVATION? I have no idea... but when I'm hungry and see food I salivate. When I see (censored) I might drool a little too...

But I certainly don't have a clue what the key to that is. Pavlov's dog might have the answers though...



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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On a more serious note... I personally am not asking any "God's" permission to go anywhere or do anything. Sure I'll be looking for truth and trying to find answers behind everything, but I don't need his authorization or involvement.

Me and God worked out a deal... I promised I wouldn't interefere with his business by praying and asking him to do crap for me, and he promised he'd stay out and let me live my life. Ever since then we were both VERY happy with the deal, especially God.

If you still believe in God, you're officially ignorant and gullible. If you don't like to be called ignorant or gullible, tough! Anyone who believes there's an all-powerful separate entity (separate from the rest of the universe) that created everything there is, is ignorant.

Not because I say so, because that's a fact. There's a LOT more to this reality than all those dumb religious books make it out to be. A God in heaven, people on Earth, Satan in Hell or on Earth (depending on who u ask), and everything is hunky dorey in their rosy outlook on the world. Ignorance is bliss they say. Well all our blissful little religious people have a choice, and theirs was ignorance. No other way about it.

I've proven many times why "he" doesn't exist. If GOD for you is just simply all that exists, not some separate creator entity, then you aren't included in this list of "blind sheep". My FAVORITE part in the next few years is going to be the outcries of sorrow and confusion and mass chaos and especially the look on all the religious people's faces when the truth comes out. It is not long now...

Why would that entertain me? After years of being told that I'm a heretic, that I am against God, that I'm a disbeliever and will go to Hell, and after being scorned and riduculed by all those religious personas, WHY NOT? I'm not about to cause anyone any pain... the truth will. Those enshrouded in ignorance the most will be the ones unable to handle the truth, it'll be nearly impossible for them to survive the shock and horror of what's really going on behind the scenes, and who REALLY wrote/created their religions.

Think of humanity in this grand cycle as a movie, and the ending credits (which so far eluded us) are about to roll. We'll find out who the producers/directors/screen writers are! So far we attribute all that to some magical GOD. But not for long


[Edited on 25-1-2004 by lilblam]



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by DaTruth
Why do we humans think that we know the keys to salivation? We live in a reality where we believe that we are superior to the rest of nature and even other people. We dont know truth!!! This reality is a lot bigger than this planet we call earth and there are a lot of forces that have shaped civilization and the beliefs of the masses. We must walk the middle path.

In these days you cant tell truth from deceit. The war for the 21st centurty is not the war on terrorism but the war for the human mind. Fear is the only reason we let these institutions run our lives. They control everything but I refuse to let them control my beliefs with a false promise of salvation. How do they know? From a book that they copied and pasted together? In this Western world we want proof of everything but when it comes spiritual belief we just jump on the ban wagon. Dont subscribe to their way of thought my people. Search for the answers to your question. God the Most High leads only those with pure intentions. If you only want salvation because you dont to go to Hell, then you are truly lost. Come up with a better reason to be saved than that.


[Edited on 25-1-2004 by DaTruth]


first the truth is a very relative thing.

second WE create salvation, or the concept of it.

third we created damnation. in order to avoid damnation you must seek...SALVATION! see how they are connected? good. now lets discuss why we as humans created this for ourselves.

my own theory on this is this is used as a means to get others to live another persons way of life. basically, to control you. to make you think is bad or this is good. to make you act according to someone else's will by making you believe if you live a certain way do or say something that goes against what they teach you then you are damned to hell and the only way to avoid this is to repent beg forgiveness and you shall have....SALVATION!

control, thats all it is.





If you still believe in God, you're officially ignorant and gullible. If you don't like to be called ignorant or gullible, tough! Anyone who believes there's an all-powerful separate entity (separate from the rest of the universe) that created everything there is, is ignorant.


no this comment is about as ignorant as you can possibly get.

i dont practice any religion at all but i do recognize that noone can definitively prove god does or does not exist, therefore a persons belief or disbelief in god yaweh, allah, whoever is an opinion. opinions are neither wrong or right, they are personal ideas.

the opposite of what you said could be and has been said of those who dont believe in god. does that mean those who dont believe in god are ignorant? no it just means they dont believe in god. it doesnt make them ignorant heathens.

ones belief or lack thereof does not make one ignorant. thinking someone is ignorant for believing or not believing in god IS ignorant.

i could say i believe eating meat is ok. does that make me ignorant? what if i said eating meat wasnt ok? its still a belief, so am i ignorant if it doesnt mesh with your mindset?

i know you want to be right but when it comes to beliefs and opinions, there is no right or wrong. its all relative.



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by DaTruth
Why do we humans think that we know the keys to salivation?


LOL... well Salivation can be yours if you are Pavlov's Dog...



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by beergoggles

Originally posted by DaTruth
We must walk the middle path.

Could you expand on this a little? What is the middle path?


Ok I know I spelled salvation wrong, gezz Im only human. But in response to what beergoggles asked about the middle path, I found a posting from some one on ATS who explained it very well.



Originally posted by mOjOm

WorldWatcher, I believe the "Eternal One God" in which Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma are manifistations of is known as Brahman. Upon first reading about Hindu Theology that was kinda confusing for me personally, mainly just because of the similar spelling of Brahma and Brahman. But I see it as being similar to how Jesus is the Son of God and yet also God at the same time in a way. Or similar to how some refer to God as One yet a Trinity at the same time, father-son-spirit. Probably because of the fact that "Infinite/Omnipresents/Omniscients/Omnipotents" is conceptually impossible to grasp mentally or in understandible terms without some kind of abstract principles to help define it.

I read something pertaining to Shiva(Destroyer), Vishnu(Sustainer) and Brahma(Creator) that made sense to me and helped me better understand the idea behind it. If you associate for example Brahma=Yang, Shiva=Yin and Vishnu=Balance it helps break down or clearify the reasoning while allowing a better understanding by removing the dualistic struggle. Brahman=Eternal Source or Tao or the balance to Nothing without limitation of being a definable Something. Brahma creates and Shiva Destroyes and Vishnu Sustains, because without Vishnu Brahma and Shiva would simply cancel each other out in a sense.

I'm not sure it that helps out or not, but it made sense to me when I read it. I find it similar to Buddhist & Taoist "Emptiness/Oneness/Non-Duality" in the sense that when trying to understand the concept that "up/down, good/bad, right/wrong, Yin/Yan" are illusionary concepts of duality. They are opposites that compliment each other and actually need the other to have meaning itself. So it's not that the balance of Yin/Yang means they cancel out to Nothing, it's just not exaclty a defined Something in terms of "this or that' thinking anymore. It's Sustained Balance, or Harmony.


It's all about balance. We can not be truly perfect, at least not in our current form, but we can strive for harmony and that is the middle path.


Originally posted by beergoggles
Sadly, if you are correct, there will be few who get into heaven. While I understand your point, it excludes too many. god wants people to love him just because, yes, but I doubt he will exclude any of his followers because of their reasons for coming to him.
At least I hope he isn't that cold.


Yes God wants us to love him but not by just saying so but through our actions. You should want to get to "Heaven" for the purpose of knowing the truth not just simply "I don't want to go to hell". There is only one thing that we take with us to the other side and that is our experiences and knowledge. Of course I can't prove this but it makes sense to me.



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 08:58 PM
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If you still believe in God, you're officially ignorant and gullible. If you don't like to be called ignorant or gullible, tough! Anyone who believes there's an all-powerful separate entity (separate from the rest of the universe) that created everything there is, is ignorant.


no this comment is about as ignorant as you can possibly get.

i dont practice any religion at all but i do recognize that noone can definitively prove god does or does not exist, therefore a persons belief or disbelief in god yaweh, allah, whoever is an opinion. opinions are neither wrong or right, they are personal ideas.



But Religion and the belief in God is more than an opinion.
It IS a fact that: God does exist, God does not exist, or God doesANDdoes not exist simultaneously.
The answer is one of those three.
Therefore, there is a fact behind the belief/lack of belief in God.
And as you say, no one can (or atleast) has yet to prove/disprove the existence of God.
But someone someday may.

And so some peoples' opinions will be Wrong.
IOW, some of us right now, are wrong.
We just don't know who.

Obviously, everyone has an opinion - it's when we confuse our opinion for fact (when we believe), that we become (not ignorant), but surely foolish and unwise.


And to answer the topic question:
The people who believe in salvation know the keys to it because God told them, and ancients wrote it down and passed it on.



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Heaven and Hell are Control mechanism.


spot on ZeroDeep. Very well stated.



posted on Jan, 26 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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If someone in heaven hates you are you out? Does following God just get you a wealthy life here and its over?

I feel wrong for trying to question God's intent.

Just believing in Salvation seems out there with impossible to me.



posted on Jan, 27 2004 @ 01:11 AM
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Religion is almost essential for a political movement. It's an ingenious creation. Demagogues utilize it in the most outstanding fashion.

Every sect is a form of cultism.


A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
The followers of such a religion or sect.
A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

Sound like Christianity, Judaism or Islam? Yep!




posted on Jan, 27 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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We do know the Truth and the Light, it is Jesus Christ, he has shown us the way to salvation my friend. he has given us all the keys to reach heaven. We must follow them to achieve this.

Jrod,
Nobody hates you in heaven. If you get to hell you get there from your own free admission and will, not by anyone else.

Lil,
You my friend, have a warped sense of God, who are you to say God doesn't want to help you when He does so everyday? You are suffering from the human pride that God had warned us about, and it will be your undoing in the end. You've been corrupted by the secular, humanist world. No sir, it is you who is trully the unenlightened and ignorant one and I'll pray that you'll see the Truth before your end. I trully pity you. The Truth is right there in your face but, fail to see it because of your selfishness and pride cloud your vision.

"Not because I say so, because that's a fact."-your quote

Prove it.

"Ignorance is bliss they say"-your quote

Ignorance is a disease.

"On a more serious note... I personally am not asking any "God's" permission to go anywhere or do anything. Sure I'll be looking for truth and trying to find answers behind everything, but I don't need his authorization or involvement.

Me and God worked out a deal... I promised I wouldn't interefere with his business by praying and asking him to do crap for me, and he promised he'd stay out and let me live my life. Ever since then we were both VERY happy with the deal, especially God. "-your quote


You even acknowledge there is a God in this quote of yours, stop hiding behind this silly humanist garbage.



posted on Jan, 27 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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Salvation exists only in Christianity.

If a religion teaches it's followers to do, say, act whatever way to get from point 'a' to point 'b', that's what they believe.

In studies of NDE, some children see a light (being God), some children see Santa Claus, some people see relatives, some people see whichever diety they are told exists on the other side ...and it goes on and on.

What is your search for truth all about? What will you do, become when you have found the truth? What is truth? We all know the physical and know it's truth and lies, but while we are alive, the search for truth, the search for God, the meaning of life, the truth in death will always be someone's opinion, someone's personal manifest, someone's mode of relaxation.





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