PARA: How Could They Know That? The Dogon Mystery.

Originally posted by Essan
(obviously if this goes against what you want to believe in then you'll dismiss it. But that's religion for you

)

Was there really a need to add that in? I mean why take a jab at people when nobody is even talking about it?

Just so you know(it all), I am a Christian who is very open to the possibility of other intelligent life in the Universe. It doesn't say anything in the Bible about there not being other forms of life out there. By the way, your EX is way too long.

For the OP, great find! It's refreshing to see an interesting subject these days.

[edit on 12-10-2007 by jbondo]

reply to post by makeitso


An excellent link, butI have not had the time to read more than a few pages. It does seem to validate the idea of deeper mystery knowledge being found below the "surface" in a neighboring tribe. This in a backhanded way says that the original reports could have been based on knowledge passed to the anthropologists.

I will need time o read and digest this material before I can be sure of just where it fits into all of this. But very interesting.

Thanks, makeitso.

redbarron, good catch. I too remember something from years back on this in NG. Thanks for reminding me. I'll look around and see if I can find it. Might be interesting.

jbondo, I would have been let down if at least one sceptic hadn't hinted that I was nuts. And his/her points were valid, and I find a lot of worth in the sceptic viewpoint. I'm also glad that you found it interesting.

***I know that it's bad form to post twice in a row like this, on one's own thread. But I was sidetracked, and missed the last couple of posts, and I feel that it is rude to ignore people that take the time to add to my thread.***

reply to post by NGC2736


Great job, NGC2736. I'd encourage you to add a tin wiki article about the Dogon Tribe.

You might also check out the old thread in the Research Forum which contains some great info-

The Dogon Tribe Research Project

reply to post by yeahright


Another bookmarking!

When I began this I was not aware just how much controversy there is over the Dogon story. When I return from town later this evening, I'll have to do some serious reading.

Thanks.

Link 1:
404 File Not Found
We’re sorry, but the file you requested cannot be found at this location.

Link 2:
Server not found
Firefox can't find the server at ethnogrphica.com.

Link 3:
redirects to a porn site

Link 4:
Wikipedia story, not exactly the most trusted site on my list.

All I have to go on is this story and wiki.
I'll read it but will take it with a pinch of salt too.

[edit on 12/10/07 by eagle32]

I think some responses to this thread confirm my comment about 'religion': those who want to believe aliens have visited Earth accept the story without question. Purely on faith. Any evidence to the contrary is dismissed.

You should all read Von Daniken - you'll love what he has to say

Fact remains: the 'Dogon Mystery' is all about individual interpretation, with other, contrary, interpretations existing.

Do you believe what you want to believe?

Originally posted by neil wilkes
There is an excellent - although sadly long since out-of-print - book on this subject from Robert Temple, called "The Sirius Mystery".
[edit on 12-10-2007 by neil wilkes]

Curiously I searched for information about the old book and found a critic. Philip Coppens writes that the original reports by Griaule was hoaxed. A return trip to the tribe did not verify any claims of Sirius and when asked the people argued that it referred to Venus. Their verbal history was not as clear as reported by Griaule and Dieterlen. Source

I sure hope that someone is able to debunk Coppens. This Dogon Mystery was one of my favourite.

Originally posted by redbarron626
Wow to think that this is a "new" post on ATS. I read about the Dogons some 25 years ago (strange it was a National Geographic article back then) If I remember correctly there was some folks alleging that the very researchers themselves actually gave the dogons the information about Sirius B(not debunking anyone just remembering a counter argument)

For those interested, who have had no other info about the Sirians, I also recommend looking into the Dropa/Dzopa from China/Tibet. These little guys also were from Sirius and they actually left some rather interesting artifacts behind( see the stone disks of Baian-Kara-Ula here in the ATS archives)

Nonetheless this is a great post and I am glad too see that this mystery is one that still gets people talking.

Long Live the Dogons!

Hey redbarron626! Sounds like you and I go way back in our digging to probably just about the same time frame..

Based on our ... er ... longevity, and somewhat mutual interest, I have a question.

Has anyone that you know of ever seen any real evidence of the dropa stones beside that same couple of pictures that the Chinese fellow took back in the thirties? I've looked, and maybe not in the right places, but I never find anything on the Dropa stones that isn't a re-hash of the original material from way back when...

Just thoughts Brother... And stay on the high road!

I have read about the Dogon people, and there was a segment several years ago on "In Search Of" about them. During that time I did further reading about it. Scientists, at that time, could not explain it, and people should know by now that what science can't explain they would rather do away with or label it "unworthy".

A few comments:

I think "Nommos" was the European spelling for "Nammus" which now is known as "Name" and also "I Am". There are several variations from Greek, Latin, etc. but, the root is the same and it all points back to "Name". The "Name" was the authority (ruler) which related to heavenly rule which was above the earthly dominion.

this is great information,,thanks a lot

Originally posted by Essan

Fact remains: the 'Dogon Mystery' is all about individual interpretation, with other, contrary, interpretations existing.

Do you believe what you want to believe?

Isn't that the same for both sides of the coin?



p.s. Essan I can tell you miss marduk...

[edit on 12-10-2007 by Telos]

I had no idea about this fascinating topic!!
Thanks to the OP and contributors.I'll make sure to read the other articles from links provided.
Flagged and starred!It's refreshing to come across something new (to me).
Many thanks.

Originally posted by Essan
I think some responses to this thread confirm my comment about 'religion': those who want to believe aliens have visited Earth accept the story without question. Purely on faith. Any evidence to the contrary is dismissed.

The point is that IMO you threw that statement in just to take a cheap shot. No offense. Furthermore, I don't see anyone selling all their belongings and moving to the jungle just yet.

It's a very intriguing story that has enough points of interest to merit discussion and investigation. In other words, I have yet to see any shape shifting politicians mentioned.

Maybe you weren't trying to take a shot but it sure seemed that way and I am fairly perceptive of the less than obvious.

By the way, Religion and Faith are very separate as Religion is something you do and Faith is something you feel.

Hey! Does anyone know what the tribesmen said when his dog jumped off the cliff? Dogon!

NGC2736, if you want to post 100 times, do it. It's your thread my friend! Whether we believe it or not it's worth the discussion.

[edit on 12-10-2007 by jbondo]

I have a deep suspicion that the Dogon were not as isolated as they have been made out to be. Many researchers and explorers held to the notion of the noble savage living in peace, completely out of touch with the modern world. Uncanny wisdom and knowledge was often attributed to such societies.

Many have scoffed at the notion that the Dogon had acquired this knowledge of the the universe all on their own.
For instance,

Journalist and skeptic James Oberg collected claims that have appeared concerning Dogon mythology in his 1982 book.[10] According to Oberg, the Dogon's astronomical information resembles the knowledge and speculations of European astronomical knowledge of the late 1920s.

He cites Sagan in the assertion that the Dogon could have gotten their astronomical knowledge, including the information on Sirius, from European visitors before their mythology was recorded in the 1930s. Oberg also points out that the Dogons were not an isolated tribe, and thus it was not even necessary for outsiders to inform the Dogon about Sirius B.

They could very well have acquired such knowledge abroad, passing it on to their tribe later. (Sirius B was first observed in 1862, and had been predicted in 1844 on dynamic grounds.[11]) In this way, by the time Temple visited the Dogon in the 1970s, they could have had a great deal of contact with the western world and had time to incorporate Sirius B into their religion.

There are some recorded facts that did not come to light until long after they were made...some of these remain a mystery.
en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 12-10-2007 by Sparky63]

Sparky63,

I actually was thinking that exact thing regarding isolation and was trying to work it thru my mind as to who (human) may have crossed their path.

Great thought!

Originally posted by redbarron626
Wow to think that this is a "new" post on ATS. I read about the Dogons some 25 years ago (strange it was a National Geographic article back then) If I remember correctly there was some folks alleging that the very researchers themselves actually gave the dogons the information about Sirius B(not debunking anyone just remembering a counter argument)

For those interested, who have had no other info about the Sirians, I also recommend looking into the Dropa/Dzopa from China/Tibet. These little guys also were from Sirius and they actually left some rather interesting artifacts behind( see the stone disks of Baian-Kara-Ula here in the ATS archives)

Nonetheless this is a great post and I am glad too see that this mystery is one that still gets people talking.

Long Live the Dogons!

I believe it was Carl Sagan who was the one who ridiculed the Dogon story. I too am surprised that it a new item here, thier story is one of the most interesting that I have come across. They have tried to debunk them, but I haven't read anything that does.
They have a very interesting and wonderful tale, one of those stories that would change human history. The two french guys lived with them for something like 15 years before they gave up thier secrets. When they were talking about those planets they gave details about them, some of which were recently confirmed. ie elliptical orbits, how ling it took the planets to orbit each other, density of one of them as being the heaviest of things, and other things that the people they were telling could not comprehend given thier current scientific knowledge. They have ceremonial masks depicting these beings, dolls, etc, some dating back past 600 years. They talked about the people looking like fish and needing water. Look them up.

reply to post by NGC2736


There are, with respect, quite a few issues to be taken with NGC2736's article. I'm tempted to reply at some length (probably longer than the original article).

However, since relatively few of those that saw NGC2736's article in the newsletter would read my response in this thread perhaps it would be better to submit my own article to the newsletter. That way, it would have the same distribution as the original article.

I'm not sure if ATS would circulate another article on the same subject (even if it meets the necessary standards of scholarship etc), so writing a long reply might be a complete waste of time...

All the best,

Isaac

Isaac,

I'd read it, if you posted it. Definitely. You should post it, anyway. For sure the OP and I and a few others, will read it.

This is a really broad and interesting subject that needs some serious in depth research and I am glad it has now been brought to light. The Research questions would be:

1. Can the debunkers, who debunked the whole thing many years ago, be debunked? I think they can, but I am not going to be the one to put effort into it because I have too many other projects running.

2. What are the tales of other tribes, other than the Dogon? Much has been destroyed by over-eager missionaries, but what tales can be recovered? And what tales are invented by modern-day charlatans?

3. What other mythologies and evidence points to sirius (there is a vast universe of information on sirius if you do some digging)

If I only werent so damn lazy...