the shanksville incident flight 93

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The Coroner says that he was not needed because there were no bodies, yet the good old boys with the volunteer fire dept. years later were of course all there that day and all saw bodies and plane parts, right? The fact that there are no parts displayed like in any other plane crash, and no serial numbers for the parts listed to prove the case, all mean that no plane crashed there. Mr. Lear is right, it was a psy op and a big one at that, on many levels.

Miller collected both body parts and plane parts from the scene and identified the human remains, matching the body parts with the victims.

www.post-gazette.com...

www.post-gazette.com...

Miller is still coroner of Somerset County. You might want to call his office and talk with him directly about whether he found body parts and plane parts.

admin edit: removed childish personal comments. RobertZ I suggest you take note of the huge warning on the top and bottom of every page in this forum. This site does not tolerate acidic, rude commentary if you are too emotionally charged to discuss this topic with utmost courtesy and civility you are well advised to take a break and come back when you can.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by Springer]

[edit on 10-10-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by robert z

John, this is an outright lie.

Thanks for your post robert z it is genuinely appreciated.

Let me respectfuly suggest that you do not know from personal experience what would be left from a straight in crash of a Boeing 757. Neither would many others.

I, however, have considerable knowledge of what would be left. Not only have I piloted, maintained and serviced many large airliners, but for 40 years I read and researched almost every single transport category aircraft accident. For many years I was on the distribution list of NTSB official accident reports having been placed on that list by Jim Greenwood, former director of Public Relations for LearJet Coporation and then head of Public Relation for the Federal Aviation Administration.

There are few, in any, major aircraft accidents that I haven't looked at in detail which includes NTSB and pilot reports and photos.

I have on site investigated only 2 accidents and they were both straight in at over 300 mph. Both were Learjets. One in Palm Springs in 1965 and the other in Clarendon, Texas a few years later.

Although both airplanes crashed at a high rate of speed in one case, near supersonic, there was considerable debris remaining. And in both cases most or all of the vertical and horizontal tail assembles were above ground. In both cases all parts of the bodies were found above ground.

Based on the aformentioned experience it is my considered and professionally informed opinion, based on the photos I have seen of the gouge mark in Shankseville, that no airplane, and in particular no United Airlines Boeing 757 crashed into that hole on that day.

I would respectfully request that you rephrase your post that I am lieing.

Seriously, John, you seemed to have milked your 15 minutes of fame into more like 15 years. You should stick to discussing things you know something about, or that you actually took the time to research, rather than making things up.

I would respectfully request that you read the above post where I outline by experience in accident investigation.

Otherwise you just come across as looking foolish at best, and you take away from what tiny bit of credibility that remains with the truth movement.

Again, robert z, thanks for your post and your input. It is genuinely apprecaited.

No matter what anyone believes there are unanswered questions and i challenge anyone to show evidence to the contraryand answer all questions with believable answers, the attack happened that is the only thing anyone can agree on, the trouble is nobody can agree on how it happened, the simple fact that government agency's removed the video taped evidence just that simple fact leaves too many questions, the hole in the pentagon and the hole left by flight 93 just dont add up, even under the most destructive circumstances there has to be something left (blood, a finger,a simple part number) i have spoken to some folks at the NTSB and they agree there has to be something and they never give up until they have answers even for years after, fact is they only ended the investigation because they supposedly knew what happened something i believe they have never ever done before?

thing is if there is the slightest tinyest chance that the passengers are alive somwhere then those people need our help they really do because the only option for the people holding them is to get rid of them just like all the other loose ends which can not happen while there are forums like this asking questions.

i agree a lot of the theories are absolute nonsence and just feed the hurt felt by those involved but we still have those questions and they need to be answered dont you agree? as for me it was a terrible horrible disgusting event and i dont go much with conspiricy theories, this whole thing just smells wrong and if i had to make a choice from a list of theories id choose that the govt knew before hand and turned a blind eye to achieve what is happening now, it has even been suggested the whole iraqi war was not about oil or WMD'S but was to search and get control of an ancient sumarian weapon or technology but im not going to agree on that either until the facts show themselves..

lets stop hurting the families with stupid theories....

Eyewitness86,
assuming you agree that flight 93 did use the radio and that we have that conversation taped, lets deal with the other three flights. I ask you: Would you first try to issue a radio warning or cry for help? I ask because I do not think I would do that first, their would be nothing they could do for me, and I would be much more concerned with first figuring out what was going on. Then I would worry about dealing with the situation, then I would radio to inform tower of the situation. Why do you think Remote Control instead of government assistance, is it just the fact that there were no radio messages from wtc and pentagon planes.

Originally posted by robert z

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The Coroner says that he was not needed because there were no bodies, yet the good old boys with the volunteer fire dept. years later were of course all there that day and all saw bodies and plane parts, right? The fact that there are no parts displayed like in any other plane crash, and no serial numbers for the parts listed to prove the case, all mean that no plane crashed there. Mr. Lear is right, it was a psy op and a big one at that, on many levels.

You are totally and ingnorantly misrepresenting the statements made by coroner Wally Miller. Miller collected both body parts and plane parts from the scene and identified the human remains, matching the body parts with the victims.

www.post-gazette.com...

www.post-gazette.com...

Miller is still coroner of Somerset County. You might want to call his office and talk with him directly about whether he found body parts and plane parts.

My guess is that you do not have the courage to call his office.

The coroner is under oath and testified that after 20 mins his job was over because there where no people there none, i have no problem calling his office because if he tells someone he did find parts then he was either pressured into chnging his testomony, or he commited purgery, but as i said in my other post it is irelivant because there are unanswered questions a lot of them and if those questions dont get answered i promise you this will all happen again.

This is off subject, and I am not trying to derail the conversation, while I type a lot of words to avoid a one line response, but just what is trolling. The Yellow flashing words at the begining of this thread say it is not allowed.

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response.[1]

Wiki Troll Definition

My opinion:

No plane hit the pentagon. It was clearly a missile.

The other planes may have been hijacked or remotely sabotaged and guided to their final destinations.

For some reason I think flight 93 may have been the only plane to be hijacked, whilst the other two were hijacked remotely. Just because of the precision of the impact on the towers...

but flight 93 was different... unless of course it was a red herring.

Time to unjumble the big knot...

Originally posted by robert z



I also spoke in depth with a woman who lives a few hundred yards behind the crash site and who was sequestered in her home for two weeks. She tells of finding debris in her yard, including pieces of credit cards, pieces of metal, and shreds of clothing. The FBI made her close her blinds when the gather the debris from her yard, but she snuck a couple of photos of them picking up stuff anyway.

This part of your post I find extremely interesting.

Why would the FBI make her close her blinds while they picked up wreakage? If the only thing that was in her yard was the debris you describe above, it makes no sense, to me anyway, that the FBI would make her close the blinds. She's seen the wreakage anyway, what difference would it make if she saw them take it out of her yard?

Hi, I am new here but find the thread interesting which is why I have decided to post. I would ask you to have a look at this video and comment. It seems fairly convincing to me......

uk.youtube.com...

If the scar was already there then the plane crashing directly into the scar seems a little bit more than coincidence although the predictability of the 'in your face' lies fits the picture of the day......

Are the perpe'traitors' of the day just laughing at the general publics acceptance ofthe fairy tale?

Please be gentle with me - this is after all my first post.

Originally posted by johnlear

John, it is my opinion when you state unequivocally that there were not parts of the plane and no body parts recovered from the Shanksville crash site, as well as saying there is NO evidence that FL 93 crashed there you are wrong.

You statement is completely false and you know it. You know very well that there were parts of a plane recovered at the crash site, and that there were body parts recovered.

Admit that you misrepresented these facts and we can carry on with a rational discussion of the evidence. Continue to lie about what evidence was at the site and there is nothing much to discuss. Anybody can make up lies about factual evidence.

Now you might not think that the evidence looks like what it is supposed to look like, but that does not mean that the evidence does not exist.

Perhaps you would like to contact Wally Miller. He is still the coroner in Somerset County, and he personally retrieved human remains, personal belongings, and parts from the plane for nearly four years.

Then get back to everybody on whether there was evidence of a plane crash at Shanksville. My guess is you will not pursue this line of research because it will pretty much debunk your entire theory.

Want me to get his number for you?

admin edit: (again) removed accusatory, rude, snide, childish comments and post banned member.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by azzllin


The coroner is under oath and testified that after 20 mins his job was over because there where no people there none, i have no problem calling his office because if he tells someone he did find parts then he was either pressured into chnging his testomony, or he commited purgery, but as i said in my other post it is irelivant because there are unanswered questions a lot of them and if those questions dont get answered i promise you this will all happen again.

You really have a problem with representing the facts accurately. The coroner was not under oath when speaking the the press. He collected body parts for years.

And as expected, when confronted with even the POSSIBILITY of speaking with the coroner and learning the TRUTH, you, like just about every other ahem... truther... create a new fantasy to explain away the reality.

When did the Truth Movement become the Lie Movement?

Originally posted by Valdimer

This part of your post I find extremely interesting.

Why would the FBI make her close her blinds while they picked up wreakage? If the only thing that was in her yard was the debris you describe above, it makes no sense, to me anyway, that the FBI would make her close the blinds. She's seen the wreakage anyway, what difference would it make if she saw them take it out of her yard?

I can only guess that the FBI being a law enforcement agency has a standard protocol that attempts to limit witnesses to their collecting of evidence. This would eliminate random witnesses coming forward with tall tales that the FBI manipulated the evidence. I would imagine that this protocol would make sense when it comes to prosecuting a case in court.

Since the woman already walked by the debris for two weeks going in and out of her house (she had to get permission from the FBI to come and go) she already saw what was there. The surprising part to me was that the FBI waited two weeks to collect the evidence. She said this was because they spent the entire two weeks collecting debris that blew due west from the crater. She lives south of the crater.

Originally posted by welshlamb
Hi, I am new here but find the thread interesting which is why I have decided to post. I would ask you to have a look at this video and comment. It seems fairly convincing to me......

uk.youtube.com...

If the scar was already there then the plane crashing directly into the scar seems a little bit more than coincidence although the predictability of the 'in your face' lies fits the picture of the day......

Are the perpe'traitors' of the day just laughing at the general publics acceptance ofthe fairy tale?

Please be gentle with me - this is after all my first post.

...

If you actually bothered to look at your own link you would have noticed that the poster of the video put in ALL CAPS this correction with the video:

CORRECTION: THE DARK SCAR FROM 1994 IS NOT THE EXACT STRIP MINE SCAR THAT WAS SHOWN AS THE FLIGHT 93 "CRASH SITE". THE SCAR IS STILL A STRIP MINING SCAR.

Sort of refutes the point of your post, in my opinion, as well as demonstrates how so called truthers will jump on any bandwagon without caring about the truth.

When can we start officially referring to this as the Lie Movement?

Originally posted by wsamplet
Eyewitness86,
assuming you agree that flight 93 did use the radio and that we have that conversation taped, lets deal with the other three flights. I ask you: Would you first try to issue a radio warning or cry for help? I ask because I do not think I would do that first, their would be nothing they could do for me, and I would be much more concerned with first figuring out what was going on. Then I would worry about dealing with the situation, then I would radio to inform tower of the situation. Why do you think Remote Control instead of government assistance, is it just the fact that there were no radio messages from wtc and pentagon planes.

Also, I'd like to know if any plane squawked 7500 on their transponders? There are a few reserved squawk codes. Here are some:

1200 - VFR
7500 - Hijack
7600 - Radio Out
7700 - General Emergency

I am asking this because I don't recall and someone might be able to answer this. The mic button is on the yoke and the headset and mic's are integrated. The pilot/co-pilot should not have to physically reach over or across any panels and key anything. If anyone barged into the cockpit, the pilot could instantly key the mic.

I'm not going to toss my opinion into this very volatile ring. Just looking for info.

I'm not sure where the transponder is in one of these aircraft. If near the flight engineer's station, surely they could have put in the squawk code. Heck, at the very least, push the IDENT button on the transponder. This casues your blip on ATC to LIGHT UP for positive identification. Doing this without a request to do so from ATC will get you noticed in a hurry! And not in a good way.

Originally posted by cw034
Just once I would like to see John Lear present some type of evidence to back up his wild claims.

I have to agree with this.

Mr. Lear states things as fact with no evidence whatsoever.

Other people have gotten warnings or bans for stating something as a fact that could not be proved as true. We all know that posting false information is against TOS.

If he presented his ideas as his opinion, I would have no problem with it at all.

Yes this is completely off topic, and I realize this thread is under close staff scrutiny. I feel strongly enough about this though that I accept the risk of a "warn".

Originally posted by robert z
Miller collected both body parts and plane parts from the scene and identified the human remains, matching the body parts with the victims.

www.post-gazette.com...

www.post-gazette.com...

I would be interested to hear Mr. Lear's comments regarding this.

Actually, I would like to hear comments on this from everyone who feels a plane didn't crash in Shanksville.

You say they died. Whow ere they? Who knows their names? Do you know someone who was on those lfights? I've searched the internet many times over trying to find someone who knows someone on any of those planes. Nobody is talking. Why.

You say they died. Whow ere they? Who knows their names? Do you know someone who was on those lfights? I've searched the internet many times over trying to find someone who knows someone on any of those planes. Nobody is talking. Why.

I have on site investigated only 2 accidents and they were both straight in at over 300 mph. Both were Learjets. One in Palm Springs in 1965 and the other in Clarendon, Texas a few years later.

Don't know about what John Lear saw at those crash sites - responded
to crash of Lear 35 number of years ago right down street from me
Hit at about 350 mph straight in. Only recognizable pieces were part
of tail about 2 x 3 ft, landing gear light which hit parked car. Rest were
pieces of "metallic confetti". Walked the site marking body parts for
coroner- again only found few recognizable pieces, hand(minus fingers),
several amputated fingers, part of torso. Rest was "human hamburger"

When plane strikes ground at high speed and at steep angle (Flight 93
was reported going over 500 mph, nose down, rolled on back) not much
is left as plane and everything aboard gets fragmented into small pieces.

Parts recovered from Flight 93 included engine fan which broke off and
rolled down a hill and a piece of fuselage.