Why am I still getting laughed at when I tell people that the 9/11 attack was questionable??

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Here are some actual facts regarding NORAD and 9/11

On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

You really should look up the FAA and NORAD regulations for hijacked aircraft.

There is not way NORAD should have left an airliner near restricted airspace. So either they dropped the ball or were given false information.

Well how did NORAD know the airliner was near restricted airspace when NORAD's radar system doesn't scan inside the US? They had to depend on the ATC's system to find the airliner. So why did it take so long for the ATC to find the airliner?

Originally posted by Essedarius

There are some very fishy things about the official story, but the "conspiracy version" of events has the plausibility of a Dr. Suess book.

Huh? What exactly is this "conspiracy version" because I'm as hard pressed to discover that as I am the "official conspiracy theory".?

If you guessed 911Truth.org, 9/11citizenswatch.org, and Jimmy Walter (of In Plane Sight fame) then you are correct!

So? But I guess that is sooooo much different than FAUX news and their propaganda? Not that I condone ANY type of propaganda. But, you guys are really, really, really transparent.

Those Zogby polls are a validity nightmare and, in my "sheepish" opinion, shouldn't be taken seriously.

No poll should be taken seriously....except maybe the exit polls of the voting booths....oops they said Gore won and they also said Kerry won. Hmmm....Diebold maybe?

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
In fact the teacher Sandra Kay Daniels told 3 different stories regarding the President's actions on 9/11. Why did Andy Card lie?... and why did the teacher Sandra Kay Daniels lie??? Who told Ms Daniels to lie??

Really?

The elementary school teacher? She's in on it too?

I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd.

The Truth Movement needs to decide whether our Federal Government is brilliant beyond measure, or a doddering group of clownish morons...because what you are implying in the above paragraph is this:

The evil supervillians who devised the PERFECT covert operation that led to the pinpoint collapses of our country's most recognizeable buildings...didn't gameplan for WHERE the President would be when the news broke, and what would be the most believable action following that historic moment.

Decide.

Astonishingly stupid or amazingly brilliant.

You don't get both.

Originally posted by me262
can all be refuted with LOGIC.

Want to talk about logic? Let's talk about logic. Please explain to me how a sagging truss suddenly shears a steel column in not one place but two? Even before that, please explain why a box column would shear in two places BEFORE the angle clip? YEAH....LET'S TALK ABOUT LOGIC FOLKS!!!!!! Because you official conspiracy theory people have no leg...err column...to stand on. Period. Refute that with LOGIC!!!!!!!!

First of all, the US govt is INCAPABLE of a conspiracy of such a grand scale and complexity. How could they be sure SURE all would go as planned? More likely they could be sure of some screw up. Which leads me to point 2...

Hmmm...screw up # 6,000.....WTC 7. Why hasn't NIST found the failure mechanism? What's the hold up? Why have there been at least 3 reports reported to NIST that have been deleted? I mean, come on.

While maybe the govt is unfazed by such an amount of death and destruction, and maybe the benefits could be considered to outweigh the death and destruction, what would be the consequences of getting caught?

Getting caught? By who? Who is the world police these days? Who polices the police? But, I guess you believe that bullets can do 2-180 degree turns and hit the same man 3 times while hitting another man twice? Go ahead and keep understanding movie physics....we in real world will not follow, sorry.

Are we talking storming the White House with pitchforks?

Please try. I have no use for your type of mentality in this world. But, I would fight for your right to think the way you do. Would you do the same for me?

All you need is 1 guy to say "my boss told me to put C4 here and here", or "I was told to place this airplane part here.... ", or "I saw a guy plant this passport in the rubble", or "I worked on this special airplane" or "I was told to turn off my camera", or "I edited this video"

Really? I have to ask...how old are you? No offense, but it really sounds like you have no imagination whatsoever. Again, I mean no offense....we've been brainwashed to think this way for the last 60 or so years.

So many would have to know something that the chance of it remaining a secret are essentially NIL.

Hence why SOOOOO many are coming out now but people like you laugh at them. People who were there that day. Were you? Was I? No. So, who are we to call these people liars? How dare you accuse HEROS of 9/11 of being liars.

If you want to perpetuate this idea, go find someone involved, even at a low level, like a fake airplane wreckage mover. Get him to talk.
Until then, it all seems like a lot of preposterous, outlandish speculation.

OK, I'll throw this out there. "If you want to perpetuate this idea, go find someone, even at a low level that can explain the above questions I posed.

"Really?

The elementary school teacher? She's in on it too?"

She was obviously scripted. Remember Jessica Lynch...Pat Tillman???
Remember those heroic stories??? If they think no one is watching they make it up as they go along.


"...because what you are implying in the above paragraph is this:

The evil supervillians who devised the PERFECT covert operation that led to the pinpoint collapses of our country's most recognizeable buildings..."

Or 19 amateur pilots led by a guy in cave in Afghanistan

"...didn't gameplan for WHERE the President would be when the news broke, and what would be the most believable action following that historic moment."

Could be allot of things. Maybe Bush didn't know??? Maybe he knew something general but no details??? Maybe the Secret Service knew??
Like I said there is no proof...but the fact is at a time of an obvious attack on the US the Secret Service did not feel compelled to protect the President...for all they knew there could have been bombs planted in Sarasota...anoter plane ready to crash into the elementary school.. but there he sits...doesn't add up. Wouldn't the Secret Service just assume the President is a possible target??

Oh and by the way I am not a "truther" I am a skeptic of the official story

reply to post by realanswers


I made this thread in August, and no one read it. How about you telling me your opinion on it??????

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 9-10-2007 by traderonwallst]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Here are some actual facts regarding NORAD and 9/11

On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

You really should look up the FAA and NORAD regulations for hijacked aircraft.

There is not way NORAD should have left an airliner near restricted airspace. So either they dropped the ball or were given false information.

The actual regulations are not important if NORAD had no direct way of tracking the planes, which is my point. They had no radar system to track the planes.

Originally posted by jfj123
If the president did run out of there on TV, that would have instantly started a nation wide panic and with no information to give us (US citizens) things might have gotten ugly quick.

Hmm...I don't remember the president being on live TV that day reading to kids. What I do remember is seeing WTC on fire. Theory debunked.

[edit on 10/10/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by Essedarius
The evil supervillians who devised the PERFECT covert operation that led to the pinpoint collapses of our country's most recognizeable buildings...

Who ever said it was perfect? If it was perfect, we wouldn't be debating this now would we?

didn't gameplan for WHERE the President would be when the news broke, and what would be the most believable action following that historic moment.

Think for a moment on photo ops, plausible deniability etc., etc. Why would it seem to you that this was a stupid move?

Decide.

Astonishingly stupid or amazingly brilliant.

You don't get both.

I disagree. Most of the top brilliant people are stupid when it comes to other things. There's a fine line between idiot and brilliant. But, anyway, acting stupid is not the same as actually being stupid.

[edit on 10/10/2007 by Griff]

[edit on 10/10/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by Essedarius

Originally posted by realanswers
Anybody who believes that 2 of the largest buildings on Earth would collapse on free fall just like demolition without any bombs being involved are complete idiots.

As opposed to the absolutely brilliant individuals that believe the government would risk smashing airplanes into buildings they just wired to collapse perfectly into their footprint because...gosh darn it...there wouldn't be enough "awe" without the planes and President Bush would NEVER have the balls to go to war if he didn't have the support of the American people.

Puh-lease.

Hi Essedarius-

One question:

If the buildings just all of a sudden fell down on 911 how would that be explained?

If the buildings WERE planned to fall then there would have to be a cover story right? I'm not saying 100% that they were, but if the NIST reports were a bit more solid in their explanations then I for one would be much more inclined to believe what we've been told.

Here's something I also think about when contemplating how the buildings fell;

If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then it must be a duck. . .

The WTC buildings, ( especially WTC 7 ), looked and acted like some sort of planned demolition. Much more global and swift than I would have expected from plane impacts & fires to only portions of the structures. Therefore I feel there's a good possibility they were "designed", with the aid of other applied energies to fall the way they did. Again, I'm not 100% sure this was the case & have evidence to prove it. I'm just not sold on the NIST explanations so far from what we saw that day.

BTW- In any case, Bush had to get the support of CONGRESS to go to war, not the American people.

2PacSade-

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Oh and by the way I am not a "truther" I am a skeptic of the official story

Thank you. Not a one liner.

Originally posted by jfj123
The actual regulations are not important if NORAD had no direct way of tracking the planes, which is my point. They had no radar system to track the planes.

Yes the regulations do matter if they tell you certain way to do things and you do not do it.

www.globalsecurity.org...

FAA and NORAD
Prior to 9/11, FAA and Department of Defense Manuals gave clear, comprehensive instructions on how to handle everything from minor emergencies to full blown hijackings.

These "protocols" were in place and were practiced regularly for a good reason--with heavily trafficked air space; airliners without radio and transponder contact are collisions and/or calamities waiting to happen.

Those protocols dictate that in the event of an emergency, the FAA is to notify NORAD. Once that notification takes place, it is then the responsibility of NORAD to scramble fighter-jets to intercept the errant plane(s). It is a matter of routine procedure for fighter-jets to "intercept" commercial airliners in order to regain contact with the pilot.

If that weren't protection enough, on September 11th, NEADS (or the North East Air Defense System dept of NORAD) was several days into a semiannual exercise known as "Vigilant Guardian". This meant that our North East Air Defense system was fully staffed. In short, key officers were manning the operation battle center, "fighter jets were cocked, loaded, and carrying extra gas on board."

Radar investigations:

www.9-11commission.gov...

The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77
led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions
performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the
flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56,
but for eight minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05,
this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed
to controllers at Indianapolis Center. The reasons are
technical, arising from the way software processed radar
information, as well as from core primary radar coverage where
American 77 had been flying.

According to the radar reconstruction, American 77 re-emerged
as a primary target on Indianapolis Center radar scopes at 9:05,
east of its last known position. The target remained in
Indianapolis Center's air space for another six minutes, then
crossed into the western portion of Washington Center's air
space at 9:10.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by Essedarius

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
In fact the teacher Sandra Kay Daniels told 3 different stories regarding the President's actions on 9/11. Why did Andy Card lie?... and why did the teacher Sandra Kay Daniels lie??? Who told Ms Daniels to lie??

Really?

The elementary school teacher? She's in on it too?

I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd.

The Truth Movement needs to decide whether our Federal Government is brilliant beyond measure, or a doddering group of clownish morons...because what you are implying in the above paragraph is this:

The evil supervillians who devised the PERFECT covert operation that led to the pinpoint collapses of our country's most recognizeable buildings...didn't gameplan for WHERE the President would be when the news broke, and what would be the most believable action following that historic moment.

Decide.

Astonishingly stupid or amazingly brilliant.

You don't get both.

Please put me down as a vote for "a doddering group of clownish morons". There's plenty of evidence proving that

Very well put points you have made. GOOD JOB !!!

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by jfj123
If the president did run out of there on TV, that would have instantly started a nation wide panic and with no information to give us (US citizens) things might have gotten ugly quick.

Hmm...I don't remember the president being on live TV that day reading to kids. What I do remember is seeing WTC on fire. Theory debunked.

[edit on 10/10/2007 by Griff]

I didn't say he was on LIVE tv but keep in mind news stations show snippets of things like this all the time so the footage may have been seen as quickly as a few moments after it was taped. Things like that happen all the time. Also remote crews do live cuts on location all the time. I remember seeing his reaction on tv very shortly after hearing about the WTC towers.

Also, I just threw an idea out there as one possible reason to a question asked. I'm not living or dying by the idea.

reply to post by Griff

Who ever said it was perfect? If it was perfect, we wouldn't be debating this now would we?

Technically, you are right. However, think about how many things would need to fall into place, how many people would need to be involved, how many secrets would need to be kept, etc. to pull this off as a government conspiracy even if it is close to perfect.

Think for a moment on photo ops, plausible deniability etc., etc. Why would it seem to you that this was a stupid move?

So then only the president was involved and he used a photo op as an alibi? I doubt it. Why wasn't cheney involved in a photo op or MS. RICE, etc...

I disagree. Most of the top brilliant people are stupid when it comes to other things. There's a fine line between idiot and brilliant. But, anyway, acting stupid is not the same as actually being stupid.

HUH??? I'm not sure what to do with this statement.......

Originally posted by realanswers
Anybody who believes that 2 of the largest buildings on Earth would collapse on free fall just like demolition without any bombs being involved are complete idiots.

Please show evidence to support this hypothesis. A strong feeling is not evidence.

Thanks.

Lately, I kinda keep quite on my view of it. There's just soo much trash compared to anything factual(even if), probably why people don't believe what you have to say.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
The actual regulations are not important if NORAD had no direct way of tracking the planes, which is my point. They had no radar system to track the planes.

Yes the regulations do matter if they tell you certain way to do things and you do not do it.

I think you're missing my point again. You can't follow regulations regarding the plane until you can find the plane.

www.globalsecurity.org...

FAA and NORAD
Those protocols dictate that in the event of an emergency, the FAA is to notify NORAD.

They did.

Once that notification takes place, it is then the responsibility of NORAD to scramble fighter-jets to intercept the errant plane(s).

On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states.

It is a matter of routine procedure for fighter-jets to "intercept" commercial airliners in order to regain contact with the pilot.

In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ)

If that weren't protection enough, on September 11th, NEADS (or the North East Air Defense System dept of NORAD) was several days into a semiannual exercise known as "Vigilant Guardian". This meant that our North East Air Defense system was fully staffed. In short, key officers were manning the operation battle center, "fighter jets were cocked, loaded, and carrying extra gas on board."

Please re-read my above answers as they pertain to this also.

Originally posted by jfj123
I think you're missing my point again. You can't follow regulations regarding the plane until you can find the plane.

But they did know where the planes were accept for flight 77 for a few moments.

"but for eight minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05,
this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed
to controllers at Indianapolis Center. as well as from core primary radar coverage where American 77 had been flying."

Which brings up the question of how the terrorist knew how to avoid the radar.


[edit on 10-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]