Angels - Male and Female Androgyny

What do we really have in the way of credible information about Angels?
It seems that the Bible is the only source of information. I just wonder if there is any other information? Angels are a central to Christianity, Judaism and Islamic religions.

Do all religions have the same concept about angels?

What are Middle Eastern religions’ views on angels?

What is the symbolic description of angels?

Ezekiel provides one of the first symbolic portrayals of angels. His description of angelic creatures could be misinterpreted as a depiction of some aliens in a science-fiction novel or movie. He described angels in his vision as having four heads: a man, an ox, an eagle and a lion. Their feet were like hoofs and each angel had four wings a piece. He states: "… I was among the captives [in Babylon] by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of Elohim (God). … The word of Yahweh (the LORD) came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of Yahweh (the LORD) was there upon him. And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf’s foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass .… As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle (Ezk. 1:1-10)." No one understood the meaning of these four creatures until the Apostle John had his vision.more here

This link is informative but I am in no way satisfied.

This next article is interesting too. It refers to the Dogon Tribe which relates to the Star Seed Theory. I must admit it was a surprise to see the Dogon Tribe pop up when I least expected it!!

I believe Angels are androgynous.

the Dogon African tribe has a myth of creation, which they believe that androgyny is a sign of perfection (Vol. 5, p. 240).

more here

Plato writing also gets a mention!

The Greeks concept of the hermaphrodite and how the sexes were created and separated is described in Plato's writing "Symposium." In it, the character Aristophanes describes two humans joined as one, which Zeus decides to split in half. Each of these beings was globular in shape, with rounded back and sides, four arms and four legs, and two faces, both the same, on a cylindrical neck, and one head, with one face on side and one the other, and four ears, and two lots of privates, and all the other parts to match same source

many cultures' gods were androgynous. For example, the Hindu god Shiva is often depicted as half man and woman. In addition, both male and female hormones are found in both sexes same source

The bible also states two become one...

I interested to hear others thoughts regarding this.

cheers









[edit on 7-10-2007 by Thurisaz]

Originally posted by Thurisaz
What do we really have in the way of credible information about Angels?

Well, I think that information about Angels can only, at best, make sense and perhaps share cohesive ideas, but 'credible' means 'believable' and once again, we are down to that undefinable definite called faith and/or belief.

It seems that the Bible is the only source of information. I just wonder if there is any other information?

ALL holy and sacred texts are viable AND valuable sources of information.

Angels are a central to Christianity, Judaism and Islamic religions.

Yes but in all the other pantheons, they are usually referred to as 'gods' somehow instead of 'messengers' or 'royals' which is what melek means - and then Elohim means 'gods' or 'sons of god'.

But then, it might just be that the Abrahamic religions somehow inherited a more orderly hierarchy of Deity than their global cousins of other lands.

Ezekiel provides one of the first symbolic portrayals of angels. (...) He described angels in his vision as having four heads: a man, an ox, an eagle and a lion. Their feet were like hoofs and each angel had four wings a piece.

Brass hooves, instead of human feet, is traditionally a semitic representation of angelic feet. Although I don't know how far that reaches into the other religions, yet.

And the animal and man faces are arranged as would be an astrological circular chart of someone who's ascendant is in Scorpio. Because that is at '9' o'clock on the circle and so Taurus is at 3 and Aquarius at the bottom at 6 and Leo at the top - the crown.

Scorpio was a phoenix bird in antiquity - or sometimes more like an eagle but either one represents regeneration - life - and Scorpio is the symbol of mortal death.

And so this entity that Ezekiel saw is the chariot which carries life - everlasting life which is not imprisoned by mortality's delusion – resurrection of the Sun GOD – Leo!
King David
The Lion of Judah
King of the Jungle
Simba the Lion King
The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

Those are all representations of that particular archetypal facet of GOD – and with 13 in the cosmic display of deity, there is, essentially, the same story around us all – no matter who we are or where we live or what we believe – it is the same story, at the root.

I believe Angels are androgynous.

Angels are like yin-yangs - living spinning circles of light and dark with eyes always growing...

the Dogon African tribe has a myth of creation, which they believe that androgyny is a sign of perfection.

It must be. It is perfect balance.

Above and Below
Left and Right
Inside and Out
Dark and light
+ and -
Front and back
etc...

The Greeks concept of the hermaphrodite and how the sexes were created and separated is described in Plato's writing "Symposium."

It is kind of like that except that all human embryos start off as female and if the Y chromosome is present from the father, then the baby is a male and after this marker is recognized, the neural tube begins to differentiate into that which is fitted for the male of the species - it includes our spinal cord, all our vital organs - both inside and out - and our cardiovascular system.

SO...it seems to me that Plato's vision is one that could fit on the metaphysical plane. Which is where mind first forms and fashions matter - then it manifests on the tangible plane. And so hermaphrodites might very well be born the way they are because they couldn't decide, maybe, or didn't want to choose, between being a male or female in physical gender.

Who knows? It makes sense to me. But my idea of logic isn’t usually seen too well – it is quantum, somehow. And that can’t be drawn or drafted or otherwise fully captured in just three dimensions.

Well, without going into a New Age diatribe, I will say that my understanding is that angels are "breaths of God." With that being said, I have to wonder how a breath, or spirit, can possibly have any gender at all. In my opinion, it can't. Also, since you want to bring the bible into the equation, the bible clearly states that angels are of a "terrifying appearance." They are nothing like the cute little cuddly cherubims we see in valentine's pictures or on Christmas cards.

Well, Speaker, it isn't really about gender. Gender is just what it manifests as, on the material plane.

It is fundamentally nothing more than the principle of positive and negative polarity.

Negative = dark = receptive = female
Positive = dark = donating = male

And so, in regard to the breaths of GOD - the exhalation would be the positive and the inhalation would be the negative.

A blower or a vacuum. Does that make sense?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Also, since you want to bring the bible into the equation, the bible clearly states that angels are of a "terrifying appearance." They are nothing like the cute little cuddly cherubims we see in valentine's pictures or on Christmas cards.

Whatever is mentioned in scripture has been used for the discussion in one of the sources. Bit like putting every verse that mentions Angels all together to determine what ever it can:

What properties and powers do angels possess?

The powers and characteristics that angels possess are probably their most misunderstood feature. If modern day Christians understood these things, they would not think that the Messiah resurrected a physical body just because he ate the disciples’ food (Lk. 24:30, 41-43) and let them touch the wounds of His crucifixion (Jn. 20:24-29). An examination of the Old Testament accounts of angels appearing to humans show that they demonstrated the same powers as the Messiah did at His resurrection.

• Angels can appear to eat (Gn. 18:8) as when Abraham prepared food for three angels that visited him before they destroyed Sodom. No one understands whether they ingest the food and convert it into energy, or dematerialize each bite as they appear to put it in their mouths. When the Messiah resurrected from the grave, he appeared to His disciples and ate bread and fish with them just as the angels did with Abraham.

• Angels can appear in human form to men (Gn. 18:2, 16, 22; 13:6; Ezk. 40:3-4; Dn. 10:16-18). It seems that only righteous angels have the power to "put on" a physical body. No where in the canonized or non-canonized scriptures, such as the Book of Enoch, is there evidence that support fallen angels "putting on" a physical body. Fallen angels seem to have to incarnate into already existing human bodies.

When angels appear as men, a human cannot discern an angelic being simply by using physical sight. Neither can a human determine whether an angelic creature has put on an actual fleshy body or has mimicked flesh ‘to appear human’ to our senses. This is what happened when the Messiah resurrected from the grave. His angelic body appeared as flesh and blood to His disciples.

• Angels and spirit beings appear wearing non-physical clothes (Ezk. 9:2; Dn. 10:5). Humans have seen their dead relatives appear to them in the clothes they wore when they were buried or killed. Now it is quite obvious that an immaterial human soul is not wearing physical clothes. Clearly, this is the projection of the soul. For example, when King Saul went to the witch of Endor, He asked her to bring up Samuel’s soul in a seance. When Samuel’s soul appeared, she described him as an old man with a mantle (1 Sam. 28:14). Clearly, this shows that spirits can project an image similar to their physical appearance.

• Angels are normally invisible to humans, but they can reveal themselves to whomever they will. Angels can reveal themselves to a group of people or just one individual in the whole group (Psa. 104:4; Jg. 13:20; 2 Kgs. 6:17; Dn. 10:6). The Messiah revealed himself in the angelic form to Paul and his companions on the road to Damasus, but only Paul saw His form (Acts 9:3-7).

• Angels can be seen in visions and dreams in human form (Gn. 19:1; Jos. 5:3; Jd. 6:11; Dan. 8:15)

• Angels have super human powers (Psa. 103:20; Gn. 19:10-11; Jg. 6:20-21). This was demonstrated by their destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorra, and Egypt. Their might was also manifest when they killed the Assyrian army (2 Kgs. 19:35).

• Angels can ride incorporeal horses (Zec. 1:8; 6:1). This implies that there are animal spirits in the angelic creation.

• Angels can brandish weapons that are not physical (Num. 22:23; Jos. 5:13; 1 Ch. 21:16, 30; Ezk. 9:2). These weapons can kill humans just as physical swords can.

• Angels can depart wisdom unto humans (Dn. 10:10-12; 2 Sam. 14:17, 20) as in the case of Daniel and David.

• Angels can protect nations. The scriptures, especially in the Old Testament, tend to support that nations have guardian angels. Yahweh told Moses in the wilderness that He would send an angel to lead Israel throughout their journey to the promised land (Ex. 23:20, 23). An angel told Daniel that he had to go and fight with the king of Persia (Dn. 10:20). Clearly, this shows that angels aid warring nations, as angels aided Israel many times. Angels cannot only protect nations, but have been alleged to have sexual relations with women. [url=http://www.plim.org/1Angelsjune96.htm]source

This sort of leads me back to 'what have we got to go with by way of information'?




[edit on 8-10-2007 by Thurisaz]

Originally posted by queenannie38
And the animal and man faces are arranged as would be an astrological circular chart of someone who's ascendant is in Scorpio. Because that is at '9' o'clock on the circle and so Taurus is at 3 and Aquarius at the bottom at 6 and Leo at the top - the crown.

Scorpio was a phoenix bird in antiquity - or sometimes more like an eagle but either one represents regeneration - life - and Scorpio is the symbol of mortal death.

Theistic astrology is interesting. How then would this theory explain John's vision in Revelations?

Those are all representations of that particular archetypal facet of GOD – and with 13 in the cosmic display of deity, there is, essentially, the same story around us all – no matter who we are or where we live or what we believe – it is the same story, at the root.

Well, I spent a lot of time reading what Tom Harpour had to offer up regarding Jesus/Horus/Astrotheism and I am not convinced at all. It does encourage one to think though which is always a good thing!

The Greeks concept of the hermaphrodite and how the sexes were created and separated is described in Plato's writing "Symposium."

In it, the character Aristophanes describes two humans joined as one, which Zeus decides to split in half.

I remember reading somewhere Adam & Eve separated to get more work done in the garden. (I will have to look for it and post it when I find it)
It was then Eve was tempted? I think the article I had read suggested that they were not to separate but did. Once they did = fall. I just wonder if in fact women and men in some pre state were originally joined (two are one) and thus looked like Angels?

My quest for information is due to the fact that I have seen an Angel. I greeted two people. The Angel had 2 faces, on one side a man and at the back a woman. I spoke with both.

Each of these beings was globular in shape, with rounded back and sides, four arms and four legs, and two faces, both the same, on a cylindrical neck, and one head, with one face on side and one the other, and four ears, and two lots of privates, and all the other parts to match same source

The above description does not match what I saw but does explain something else for me OMG that is cryptic isn't it!!

LOL

Originally posted by Thurisaz
Theistic astrology is interesting. How then would this theory explain John's vision in Revelations?

Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius are fixed signs; they relate to stability, earthiness and fixity. The determination of the fixed signs expresses itself in the form of great willpower.

So, these 4 'cherubim' drive the will of God, so to speak. And God's will is traditionally regarded as fixed, unchanging, and great. Remember that Ezekiel said:

Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.
~Ezekiel 1:9

And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.
~Ezekiel 1:12

The fact that they did not turn seems to be symbolizing that they stayed 'fixed.'

In Revelation we also find the other 8 'cherubim' of the mazzaroth - the zodiac - and the twelve constellations all together are symbolized by the 12 stars in the 'woman clothed by the sun.' The 'woman' is the earth under the illumination of the sun.

Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces are the mutable signs; the adaptable and interchangeable signs capable of molding and modifying circumstances and conditions in life. These are the 'winds of change!' - the four angels who are holding back the winds, in Revelation 7:1, from the four corners of the Earth - which is a metaphorical way of describing the 4 cardinal directions: N, S, E, & W.

And the four horsemen are the cardinal signs, which are Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn. The cardinal signs are the signs of dynamic change, movement and great vitality.
Libra is the black horse - contrary to popular belief, the black horse is a direct representation of Justice - Judgment - the scales in the horseman's hand does NOT represent famine but the balance of the scales of justice.

Please go to tanbooks .com. Its a large bookstore on Catholicism.

They have a 400 page book about angels and devils from scripture to the saints encounters with them.

Its called angels and devils.

Its simply incredible. Its like 10.00, but it is amazing.

The girl in my sig. talked to her angel almost daily.

peace.

Woooooooo Hooooooo

I finally have worked it all out!!!!!!!!!



Really!!

Ok I refer to the Mona Lisa, Amon and Isis.



One person = two (male/female)

If male is separated then the female is behind him.
The woman is faces the man (who is actually her but in masculine form) then he is behind her!!!!
They are still one = two, separated then becomes two = four.

Oh shivers... I have figured it out... well what I was trying to work out, anyway!!

well I understand it even if know one else knows what the lorry I am on about!!!!




[edit on 25-10-2007 by Thurisaz]

Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces are the mutable signs; the adaptable and interchangeable signs capable of molding and modifying circumstances and conditions in life. These are the 'winds of change!' - the four angels who are holding back the winds, in Revelation 7:1, from the four corners of the Earth - which is a metaphorical way of describing the 4 cardinal directions: N, S, E, & W.

Well, I am a Gemini and I am all about change...

Why would the angels be trying to hold back change? Change is good, right?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Why would the angels be trying to hold back change? Change is good, right?

Holding it back only until it's time!

Originally posted by Thurisaz
well I understand it even if know one else knows what the lorry I am on about!!!!

I understand perfectly - because of a dream, or rather an OOBE, I had, this is what was shown to me, too! Only I was unable to put it into words like you did! Way to go!

Ahhh, I see, Queen. Thank you.

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Why would the angels be trying to hold back change? Change is good, right?

Holding it back only until it's time!

They're here [eerie voice]

Is it time yet? Time for what we may never know but it is definitely time for something... What exactly happened in your OOBE? Besides the stated? I promise I won't kiss and tell