Fallout shelter latrine?

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posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 01:51 PM
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An ideal solution would be a latrine that enables the separate collection of unrine and solids.

The urine owing to it's high concentrations of Nitrogen and Phosphorous make it an ideal fertilizer for crops, though I wonder of it would be possible to dry out the solid waste by any means to burn as a heating-fuel source...if it works with animal dung, why not human?




posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Marlborough Red
 


A bucket would be the easiest. A latrine would come in second.

The OP talked about being stuck inside all day every day for more then a few days. the last thing you want is fumes of any kind polluting the air that you breath. that is why your method while being simple would not work. levels of gas would build up very quickly, making your survival shelter unbearable.


apc

posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 03:59 PM
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Let us assume filtered ventilation is provided as any appropriate shelter probably needs to have.

Mine for example will use a small squirrelcage blower and filter to create positive pressure inside the shelter.

Although I'm pretty sure there won't be any gardens inside the shelter.


[edit on 7-10-2007 by apc]



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 04:32 PM
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You can certainly buy toilets that flush upwards, and you could probably make your own if you're a bit handy.

It looks like the key is to use a sink disposal or the like, to mince the waste before flushing it up, since the diameter of the pipe has to be slimmer than usual (for solids), in order to maintain pressure without genuinely excessive water-use.

I know of one company, called Saniflo, that makes a variety of toilets for this purpose. Well, not exactly, they're toilets made for basements, not specifically for bomb shelters, but we're not picky, right?

The one I know about can't be used for sanitary napkins, tampons, or anything like that. It will handle pretty much anything that comes out of the cellar dweller tho...

It's a huge waste of energy and water compared to the bucket method, obviously, but it might be ideal for those folks looking to experience the apocalypse in style.

Another option, probably a better option, is to build your shelter into/near a hillside, and vent the waste downhill.


apc

posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 04:54 PM
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I used to work about 200feet underground... all the toilets flushed up! They were setup to drain to a sump with a kind of blender blade on the pump intake.

Definitely something to consider for livin' the good, glowing life.



posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 05:58 PM
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First I'd consider the intended use. If it's fallout shelter it will be used at the most one time in your life. That use will be for probably 2 weeks tops. You should never need it again. There is however a possibility of a second wave strike so double your anticipated needs. Then youre done with it forever.

My solution would be to dig a hole larger than a 55 gal plastic barrel and use the dirt to fill in the spaces in the cinder block walls. Then I'd drill 1/4" holes all over the barrel. Don't be bashful with the drill. Wear it out. Then I'd sink the barrel and fill in around it with crushed limestone or if I couldn't get that I'd use whatever gravel I could get. Next I'd shop around for a good used camper toilet to mount over it. They flush easily with a minimum amount of water and they seal off from the disposal tank. That would over-kill the initial problem with a minimum of expense and space useage. Additionally it will give you dirt for a barrier.

Also i'd be very careful with that positive pressure ventilation. Although it's the best bet for chemical or biological attack and should be included for that reason, it could actually draw radioactive particles close enough to you to cause you problems.


apc

posted on Oct, 7 2007 @ 06:20 PM
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Draw them closer? You mean the airflow generated by the intake could bring dust closer to the shelter? Note the intake filter will be inside the house, on mine at least.

Personally I see the likelihood of a full-scale nuclear exchange to be remote. In such an event, a simple fallout shelter won't do much. The basement will have to provide whatever protection possible from a blast.

However I think small, simple, and equipped fallout shelters are not a bad idea at all with respect to the current environment. I'm of the opinion there's a good chance of an atom-splitting "discussion" in the not-too-distant future.



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by apc
 



Draw them closer? You mean the airflow generated by the intake could bring dust closer to the shelter?


Exactly. It all depends on where you have your air intake. Dust sometimes settles in strange and unexpected ways. Ask anyone who's ever lived on a dirt road. It will catch some particles in your hepa-filter. Count on that. Just position that in a way to minimize what it catches and keep it far enough away from your shelter to not affect you.



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 09:24 AM
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Make a *Bang* with your wizz!

In a mass-X scenario where you would be dependant on obtaining all your own essentials to survival, urine-storage would provide an invaluable source of drinking water if fed into an evaporation-distiller system.

The resultant nitrate-rich by-products left in the distiller after all the water has been recycled can be used not only as a fertilizer for crops at a time when commercially-available sources are no longer available, but also as an essential ingredient for the manufacture saltpetre to make crude gunpowder!

The explosive chemistry of nitrogen, phosphorus and urine

Joseph LeConte, 1823-1901: Instructions for the Manufacture of Saltpetre



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 10:41 AM
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posted by apc
Personally I see the likelihood of a full-scale nuclear exchange to be remote. In such an event, a simple fallout shelter won't do much. The basement will have to provide whatever protection possible from a blast.

However I think small, simple, and equipped fallout shelters are not a bad idea at all with respect to the current environment. I'm of the opinion there's a good chance of an atom-splitting "discussion" in the not-too-distant future.


ONLY the United States will perform a “full scale nuclear exchange.” Now that Herr Oberfuhrer Rumsfeld is gone and VP Cheney almost gone, the West of the Pecos wild card Bush43 may not be able to pull the trigger. I hope the hand picked sycophants around him would at last show some courage and old fashioned gumption. Put Bush43 in a straightjacket, VP Cheney in protective custody and call Nancy Pelosi to take over. “Free at last, thank God A’mighty, Free at Last!”

I agree that preparedness for atmospheric calamities, earthquakes and volcanoes is good business. I had the good fortune to work with the Civil Defense effort back in the late 1950s. 1958-1959 to be specific. All shelter plans were based on 14 days in the shelter. In very large shelter populations, it was admitted that after 72 hours discipline would become crucial. Plans were made but held in confidence on restraining non-conformists. Louisville - my hometown - had a large underground quarry. It is now used by commercial interests as a constant temp - 58 degrees - storage facility. It was stocked to handle 100,000 people. Hospitals, lock-ups and all.

One topic that never got much but passing attention was what to do when the prepared man is besieged by his unprepared neighbors. Then as now we avoided the hard issues. By the 2nd day people will be banging on your door wanting in or at least, to have water and food. You know the old adage, you die in 3 days without water, 7 days without food. So, while a .22 is good for killing rats, it will take an AK47 to secure your shelter from your fellow man.

I thought about it a lot back then, about going into a shelter in case we had really sustained a nuclear attack. I decided for myself, I’d rather die above the ground in the sunshine than die in a hole in the ground in the dark. So I’ve never put any stock into shelters, although I do keep water on hand and a good supply of canned goods for hurricanes.


posted by citizen smith
Make a *Bang* with your wizz! In a mass-X scenario where you would be dependent on obtaining all your own essentials to survival . .


In ‘97 or ‘98, Jacksonville FL attempted a mass evacuation to avoid an oncoming hurricane. The mayor gave the Evac Order but without instructions. Not that anyone would have obeyed even a simple plan. For example, drivers with last name beginning with “A” leave now, “B’s” in 30 minutes, and so on. In much less than 1 hour, all outbound roads were JAMMED into parking lots. It took 2 days to unclog the roads.

Mass-X fans were not discouraged. They proceeded to have FL and GA install traffic stopping gates on ALL interstate ramps for 50 miles around. At no small expense to taxpayers. Now, on our next mass-X attempt, all interstates will be ALL lanes out of town! I predict in less than 1 hour, all roads will be JAMMED into parking lots. There is NO road that can accept the sudden unrestrained influx of 10s of 1000s of cars. And no one is going to wait his turn. Mass-X is not a planner’s dream, it is a citizen’s nightmare! Your real choice is to die on the road or to die at home.


. . urine-storage would provide an invaluable source of drinking water if fed into an evaporation-distiller system. The resultant nitrate-rich by-products left in the distiller after all the water has been recycled can be used not only as a fertilizer for crops at a time when commercial sources are no longer available, but also as an essential ingredient for the manufacture salt peter to make crude gunpowder!


Back when countries were making black powder out of urine, they used horses mostly, of which there were 1000s, but in any case, you could not make a .22 cartridge out of what you’d get in a week hiding in the basement. And you sure could not grow tomatoes on it. But you could drink it, if purified.

[edit on 10/8/2007 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 12:46 PM
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My question is:
Can indoor trees and houseplants help clean indoor air?
If we had to button up the house and hole up downstairs for two whole weeks, would dragging potted trees inside and downstairs with us help to clean the air? Trees give off air, don't they?
I wonder if two or three Ficus Benjimina's would have any positive effect??
Those are very common indoor household trees, you can find them in doctor's offices and other waiting areas all over the place. I've got one I have had since high school.
If these indoor trees can help, they are portable, inexpensive, don't require a lot of light, and look good.
Maybe a potted tree is the poor man's (or woman's in my case) answer to keeping the air breathable for a couple of weeks?



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by julesmac8
 


Jules, you're a genius. Are you sure you're new at this? LOL Trees do what they do no matter where they are. Just remember they need sunlight and the greater the total leaf surface, the more air they'll process.



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by julesmac8
If these indoor trees can help, they are portable, inexpensive, don't require a lot of light, and look good. Maybe a potted tree is the poor man's (or woman's in my case) answer to keeping the air breathable for a couple of weeks?


If the S were about to HTF I'd be thinking about the 'other' kind of indoor potted trees...the air in my shelter would be thick with the scent of peace and inner harmony

Jah love



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
Back when countries were making black powder out of urine, they used horses mostly, of which there were 1000s, but in any case, you could not make a .22 cartridge out of what you’d get in a week hiding in the basement. And you sure could not grow tomatoes on it. But you could drink it, if purified.


Although the amount of by-product you could obtain from one household shelter may only make enough nitrate for a bullet or two per week, a device that could process the recycling of the water content from both urine and solids would ensure water-rations were kept topped up, and enable a much greater waste-matter storage capacity and less mess involved in-house until you were able to venture outside to dispose/make use of it



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by julesmac8
 


In 1987, in a suburb of Tucson AZ, the Biosphere 2 was launched. It was closed in 2006. I bring this up to show the difficulty of creating your own life sustaining atmosphere in a confined space. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2

[edit on 10/8/2007 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 02:12 PM
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I will definately go to wiki and read up on that; but keep in mind I am talking about only a two week period of time, not long term.



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 



Okay I went and read a bit about Bioshpere 2, and what it said about the falling levels of oxygen was interesting, and also encouraging for our scenarios here.

First I will summarize what I read on Wiki about the falling oxygen:
It was said that the oxygen levels were falling at a rate of .3% per month. (Their air levels resembled living at an altitude of four thousand feet in elevation. Higher than Denver, Colorado.) In our situation here, we are focusing on short term time spans of two weeks indoors so that does apply unless we address living indoors and under ground for very extended periods of time.

The indoor tree I have in mind is a great tree for those who do not have a green thumb as it doesn't require a ton of light to survive. The Ficus is a forgiving tree. (No pun intended).

The other factor that contributed to Biosphere's falling oxygen levels was microbes in the soil consuming massive amounts of oxygen and giving off carbon dioxide. Unless your basement or shelter has a dirt floor and loaded with oxygen gobbling microbes then they aren't going to be as big a factor as they were for Biosphere. (That's another plus for us)

This leaves me to believe there are two things to keep in mind about indoor trees: one is keep the leaves clean. Yep, wipe off the leaves to give the tree maximum photosynthsis ability. Two, Keep the tree near a window or other light source if possible in your shelter, or place a type of set up for grow lights (I got that idea about grow lights from Citizen Smith's indoor trees of a different kind... lol)

The indoor trees might be of help afterall.



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by apc
 

a litle of the subject but does anyone know where to buy a co2 scrubber for a underground shelter?



[edit on 8-10-2007 by icybreeze]



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by icybreeze
 


No, on where to buy CO2 scrubbers. Some coal fired electric plants spend billions on CO2 scrubbers. I don't think one would be needed in a shelter for less than a 2 weeks stay.

A CO detector would be needed sooner, IMO.

[edit on 10/8/2007 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 8 2007 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 

I would say that CO is what one needs to worry about if you are in a confined, dust free space. I would have to disagree on not needing it for a couple weeks. My shelter is only 12x12 and air tight as a drumb.
I have guesstimated that with 2 adults and 2 children the air would become contaminated beyond a breathable atmosphere in 16 to 18 hrs. remember we exhaust 5% CO2 and 16% O2, if the O2 is not being replenished and the CO2 not scrubbed the problem is compounded.





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