Originally posted by AndrewTB
One must account that there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of armed police officers in the states.

Their job isnt an easy one including being treated by crap by the general education, being lied too on a person by person basis, being shot at, long 12 hour shifts on top of being on call 24/7. From my limited experience this is all I can come up with.

i agree with these points. it's tough..

if they can't handle it then they need to quit or they need to be given their papers.
just like th eole story with the military, it's no secret what they are getting into when they sign up to be a cop.

i have heard on this board many times that it's the cops job to get home safe to his family....uhhh, no it's not...during that 12 hour shift, the cops job is to do his/her best to protect and serve us....after the shift, i don't care.

see, somewhere along the way here, there is a change.

i'm sure most want to become a cop to do good and serve the community(at first).
then, after 3 years they just wanna get paid.
then, after 8 years they are just trying to get home safe.
then, after 12 years they are so burnt out they are tazing people for the wrong reasons.

i know they are just human but this is one of the few professions where these types of things have to be unacceptable.

it's not their job to not get hurt and come home safe. they are trained(there is a laugh) and paid to do the dangerous things that need done to protect a community...
that is their job.

Originally posted by Omega99
The child was scared, that is why she reacted the way she did in the beginning, before he used excessive force.

We don't know that.
She could have been on meth.
She could have been hooking.
She could have broken into someone's house or car.

The simple fact is that we don't have enough information on this to make any real judgments.

It's rotten to see a kid treated that way, but I've seen kids around here that should be treated lots worse. Yes, even some of the young girls are totally out of control.

Originally posted by Boondock78

Originally posted by AndrewTB
One must account that there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of armed police officers in the states.

Their job isnt an easy one including being treated by crap by the general education, being lied too on a person by person basis, being shot at, long 12 hour shifts on top of being on call 24/7. From my limited experience this is all I can come up with.

i agree with these points. it's tough..

if they can't handle it then they need to quit or they need to be given their papers.
just like th eole story with the military, it's no secret what they are getting into when they sign up to be a cop.

i have heard on this board many times that it's the cops job to get home safe to his family....uhhh, no it's not...during that 12 hour shift, the cops job is to do his/her best to protect and serve us....after the shift, i don't care.

see, somewhere along the way here, there is a change.

i'm sure most want to become a cop to do good and serve the community(at first).
then, after 3 years they just wanna get paid.
then, after 8 years they are just trying to get home safe.
then, after 12 years they are so burnt out they are tazing people for the wrong reasons.

i know they are just human but this is one of the few professions where these types of things have to be unacceptable.

it's not their job to not get hurt and come home safe. they are trained(there is a laugh) and paid to do the dangerous things that need done to protect a community...
that is their job.

You make some valid points. But if everyone quit their job for being stressful nobody would be working.

The point which I will refute is that these guys spend their lives protecting others. IN RETURN they get crappy pay, mistreatment by a majority of society and then what the job entails.

In the case of the University Of Florida student being tasered it was also justified but again honest officers reputations were ruined.

People seem to forget cops arent supposed to be cheery good looking firemen. They are here to ENFORCE LAWS as he was doing in this case and protect others from crime.

There was a murder not to long ago not far from where this girl was. Gangs are rampant all over Florida. TRUST ME IT WAS FOR HER OWN GOOD. Especially since the parent factor is most likely lacking.

I will leave with this... I seldom see people have such a delayed reaction to being peppered. I am not making accusations but it would not amaze me if the child was under the influence of something. None of us know what precedes the video starting so nobody can say for sure in terms of morality and the subject being scared and not told whats going to happen.

[edit on 10/6/2007 by AndrewTB]

Since chokeholds have been brought up I felt I had to mention this - the reason people have died being choked out has nothing to do with 'improper technique'. The fact is, there is a very slim but real possibility that when someone is choked out with pressure points on the carotid that the heart will stop beating - a mixed signal from the brain perhaps that short circuits the autonomic systems. When this happens even well trained paramedics using CPR and paddles have been unable to start the heart again - the reasons are unknown.

This is the same reason 'breath play' is so dangerous as a sexual act. People can be experts but the fact remains that when someone is forced into unconsciousness there is a real chance that they may die. If you notice the police forces have been all but banned from using chokeholds unless it is an absolute last resort.

As for this scrawny girl, the cop seemed to be panicking himself when he was unable to subdue her - but he reacted poorly. If he can't even control a girl half his size what hope does he have to arrest a non compliant well muscled male? I guess he would be pulling out his gun next.

Originally posted by KaiBosh
Since chokeholds have been brought up I felt I had to mention this - the reason people have died being choked out has nothing to do with 'improper technique'. The fact is, there is a very slim but real possibility that when someone is choked out with pressure points on the carotid that the heart will stop beating - a mixed signal from the brain perhaps that short circuits the autonomic systems. When this happens even well trained paramedics using CPR and paddles have been unable to start the heart again - the reasons are unknown.

This is the same reason 'breath play' is so dangerous as a sexual act. People can be experts but the fact remains that when someone is forced into unconsciousness there is a real chance that they may die. If you notice the police forces have been all but banned from using chokeholds unless it is an absolute last resort.

As for this scrawny girl, the cop seemed to be panicking himself when he was unable to subdue her - but he reacted poorly. If he can't even control a girl half his size what hope does he have to arrest a non compliant well muscled male? I guess he would be pulling out his gun next.

I have a 14 year old sister who at time acts out. Don't let the age or size fool you. Women are naturally the hardest to deal with when dealing with arrests. I will gladly face a full grown man before I face a woman. I have no experience personally with arrests but have been into my fair share of scuffles so I know from experience in that case.

I recall doing a paper for school on it before.

[edit on 10/6/2007 by AndrewTB]

[edit on 10/6/2007 by AndrewTB]

Originally posted by apc
What a stupid little twit. I wanted to reach into my screen and smack the drama queen out of her.

The officer gave her more than enough chances to cooperate. He was wise to make sure every second was caught on camera.

Using a taser would have gone too far. This level of force was 100% justified.

+1

I agree

One thing I never understood about the law system is how black and white it is.

Breaking curfew against the law? Yup. DUI? Yup. Cold-blooded murder? Yup.

Does that mean in an instance where a teen was resisting arrest for breaking the law via curfew, he or she should be subject to the same treatment if he or she was resisting arrest as a known DUI or suspected murderer?

Most logical people would say well um and at least think about that for a second. I would say that AT THE VERY LEAST there would be a stronger bias on the part of an officer if the offender was a suspected murderer than if they were breaking curfew. Hell I would.

The problem comes when you say "well the law says anyone resisting arrest is to be treated with escalating levels of force." What about people that are REALLY doing no wrong and are being wrongfully arrested? Or those who are unaware of the law and have no idea what is going on? Should they be subject to the same levels of force as a suspected felon?

I understand to protect themselves the cops have to treat all "unknowns" as "hostile". But doesn't that mentality just morph into a police state over time?

I'll be honest with you ... if a cop came up to me threatening arrest my first instinct would not be to put my hands up - rather I would question it. If I truly believed when I was 16 that there was no curfew in my town (there was) I would have resisted arrest. I would not have bit an officer, but I'm not going to go down and roll over for something just because someone else says I should.

I guess my main problem isn't this video (proper force was probably used, personally I think I could have taken her down with a sharp knee to the proper place as Intrepid mentioned earlier) and whether or not the law she was arrested for was proper (it is .... curfews are in place for a reason) ... it's where questioning/resisting those in "authority" leaves us. I mean will YOU put your hands behind your back if they attempt to arrest you for watering your lawn on an even-numbered day? Just because a person somewhere in another county wrote it in a book? And be ok with a seperated shoulder when you resist arrest because you think the law is frivolous?

This is how people in this country need to start thinking.

where is the brutality? all i see is a woman resisting arrest, assaulting an officer and exaggerating the situation.

her arm is perfectly fine. my sister was that skinny and her arm went a lot higher. skinny people are very flexible. why didn't she just put her arm behind her back like the officer told her to do? he even said he didn't want to hurt her because of her small stature. the officer is struggling not to hurt her. she then decides to bite him(assault). i hope she doesn't have any diseases.

all could have been avoided if she didn't resist and didn't assault the officer.

no brutality at all. just another dumb punk who feels that laws don't apply to them.

Based on the video I saw, the officer was within his rights to attempt to mace the girl. She was not cooperating, she was breaking curfew. While he was trying to restrain her, she tried to bite his forearm, there were no gloves there. She was not going for his hand. He had every right to pepper spray her.

As mentioned earlier a human bite is worse then most animal bites. Who is to say this individual does not have some sort of disease that could infect the officer? I say pepper spray her.

Originally posted by Fiverz
One thing I never understood about the law system is how black and white it is.

Breaking curfew against the law? Yup. DUI? Yup. Cold-blooded murder? Yup.

Does that mean in an instance where a teen was resisting arrest for breaking the law via curfew, he or she should be subject to the same treatment if he or she was resisting arrest as a known DUI or suspected murderer?

your entire argument misses the point

she resisted arrest that in and of itself is a felony in most juristictions

and resisting arrest gives the arresting officer the right to use what ever means are required to bring the arrestee under his lawful control

what would you do - allow any one who resists to escape ?????????

and also most people who resist arrest or attempt to flee when questioned about seemingly minor violations turn out to be either :

in possesion of controlled sunstances [ drugs ] or prohibited items [ weapons or the tools of a burbular ] or stolen goods

to be wanted on arrest warrents , breach of bail etc etc

that is why they flee , attempt to flee or resist

Originally posted by KaiBosh
Since chokeholds have been brought up I felt I had to mention this - the reason people have died being choked out has nothing to do with 'improper technique'. The fact is, there is a very slim but real possibility that when someone is choked out with pressure points on the carotid that the heart will stop beating -

what would you say? about as slim a chance of a tazer killing someone?

i still say with proper training in the proper way to apply these holds will help.
you don't have to use a choke to actually choke someoe 'out'
you can use it to manipulate them/hold them too.