Advanced Pantsyr-S1 air defense proves ineffective

DEBKAfile’s military experts conclude from the way Damascus described the episode Wednesday, Sept. 6, that the Pantsyr-S1E missiles, purchased from Russia to repel air assailants, failed to down the Israeli jets accused of penetrating northern Syrian airspace from the Mediterranean the night before.

Pantsyr S1 Air Defense Missile / Gun System, Russia - Detailed article about weapon system

According to this Debka article the Syrians don't know if the intruding aircraft came in from the East, West, or South. Basically they're in the dark as to how the Israeli (Western) aircraft were able to pull off this manuver. Syrian pride in their newly purchased systems was rapidly deflated with their inablility to do anything to stop the intruding aircraft.

On a personal level this warms my heart. Growing up during the Cold War, and Ronald Regean, it's natural to feel some national pride about this. It's almost like thumbing your nose at Putin himself. "Yeah, you got skills, but prepare to get schooled sucka."

The purported Israeli air force flights over the Pantsyr-S1E site established that the new Russian missiles, activated for the first time in the Middle East, are effective and dangerous but can be disarmed.

They would have needed to spend enough time in hostile Syrian air space to execute several passes at varying altitudes under fire in order to test the Pantsyr-S1E responses. Their success demonstrated to Damascus and Tehran that their expensive new Russian anti-air system leaves them vulnerable.

Obviously this wasn't just a bombing raid. The Israeli planes flew back and forth across their new air defenses to test them out. This is a big deal since this new advanced missile system is the golden goose for most of the Arab nations in the middle east. Iran is counting on this new technology to protect their nuclear sites. Well, back to the drawing board.

1. There's another thread on this already

2. The Pantsir-S1's hadn't even been in the Syrian military for a month. By suggesting that Israel wanted to see how good they were, you're bashing Israel's intelligence, because:
-Syrians couldn't possible have integrated and activated the units in that amount of time. It almost always takes months for new complex weapons systems to be integrated. The chance that the systems were even active is pretty low.
-Pantsir's are designed as a local defense weapon, and by showing that they can't defend a nations borders by themselves wouldn't prove anything anyway.



To REALLY test the system, you would have to see how well you can blow up some s-400's surrounded by Pantsirs. Good luck with that.

source = DBKA

release news agency for the Israelie governement ; source = biased.


oh wait there the same people who are attacking the ARABIST US government


and theres allready a thread about it

i cant find the other thread about this and no mods have closed this one. so im gonna respond in this one and then propably copy and paste it to the other one if someone would provide me with a link. the problem with saying this missile system doesnt work is that the only way for it to function properly is to have a adequate radar system to track targets. syria may not have a good radar system but iran does atleast one of the more modern ones being used by other countries outside of the region.

Originally posted by justanothergangster
i cant find the other thread about this and no mods have closed this one. so im gonna respond in this one and then propably copy and paste it to the other one if someone would provide me with a link. the problem with saying this missile system doesnt work is that the only way for it to function properly is to have a adequate radar system to track targets. syria may not have a good radar system but iran does atleast one of the more modern ones being used by other countries outside of the region.

yes there is already a thread ...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


as for Debka , it has serious crediblity issues , like it was the first one to spread the false WMD in iraq and the discredited nuclear s-megaton red mercury theories....

Debka is, however, not noted for credibility or it's commitment to the Truth. F'rinstance, debka ran a story about Saddam's troops invading eastern Jordan in early 2002, and the Jordanians having a hard time repelling them because of the Iraqi advantage in airpower, of all things, while USOCOM troops were reported to be engaged in active fighting deep inside Mesopotamia then. Now how believable was that? , the stories made by Debka are pure BS...

Debka--How credible is it?

Thread debunked.

Reason: Pantsir system wasnt fielded when the attacks happend.

First it needed to pass tests and use them for training for the technichians working on them and the crews to man them...

Doing that in one month isnt feasable. and takes at least a couple off months more.

Iff not a half a year.

And maybe that was the reason for Israel to attack NOW because LATER they would need to plow through the layers off Pantsirs who are then protecting the asets off the Syrian goverment.

Like destroying the Death Star MKII before its finished or else it would be a too large obstacle to pass through...

Close this thred.

Yes close this thread.

The entire thing is just been debunked by the fact that the Pantsir AA system couldnt and wasnt online and ready to defend some airspace...

Originally posted by justanothergangster
the problem with saying this missile system doesnt work is that the only way for it to function properly is to have a adequate radar system to track targets. syria may not have a good radar system but iran does atleast one of the more modern ones being used by other countries outside of the region.

The Russian air defense system comes with the advanced radar as part of the package.

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood
Yes close this thread.

The entire thing is just been debunked by the fact that the Pantsir AA system couldnt and wasnt online and ready to defend some airspace...

This thread is NOT debunked. Its your opinion that the system was not online. According to the article it was online. The planes that flew into Syria are able to detect what system is being used against them. The planes detected that the defense was the Pantsir and used the appropriate counter measures.
According to the article, Syria only received 10 systems, so I'm sure it did not take long to deploy. Also, the crew of these systems would have been trained before receiving them. They do this so when the system is received it can be deployed almost immediately.

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
According to the article, Syria only received 10 systems, so I'm sure it did not take long to deploy.

You realise, right, that the fact that there were only 10 systems means that Syria could not possibly have been even close to being adequatly defended? The range of those systems isn't comparable to that of heavy single-missile AA systems. So even if they HAD been deployed (3 times faster than what is normally possible) and even if everyone HAD been adequatly trained to use the weapons to their full potential (before the weapons are likely even deployable?), the Israelis STILL could have just slipped in a gap.

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan

Originally posted by justanothergangster
the problem with saying this missile system doesnt work is that the only way for it to function properly is to have a adequate radar system to track targets. syria may not have a good radar system but iran does atleast one of the more modern ones being used by other countries outside of the region.

The Russian air defense system comes with the advanced radar as part of the package.

wow what does the sport model come with? lol but seriously i believe irans using a radar system that i believe is used by india...but im starting to have serious doubts about russia shipping the AA imean have we even heard anything else on that?

reply to post by dbates


Perhaps you'd like checkink in here. If you're thinking that IAF raid on Syria is a proof for that claim, then you might want to reconsider. Because no one here can't tell was Pantsir system used there or not. Thus, no solid proof of Pantsir effectiveness or non-effectiveness.

Originally posted by justanothergangster
wow what does the sport model come with? lol but seriously i believe irans using a radar system that i believe is used by india

I am not sure what radar system they are currently using but a advanced radar setup does come with the Pantsyr system.
The sport model comes with dice to hang off the focus button.

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
This thread is NOT debunked. Its your opinion that the system was not online. According to the article it was online. The planes that flew into Syria are able to detect what system is being used against them. The planes detected that the defense was the Pantsir and used the appropriate counter measures.
According to the article, Syria only received 10 systems, so I'm sure it did not take long to deploy. Also, the crew of these systems would have been trained before receiving them. They do this so when the system is received it can be deployed almost immediately.

But still. One month is pushing it.

And you need to build the required infrastructure.

Even when they are online, those systems only cover a small area to defend.

Cheers man

The article says that Israeli planes made multiple passes over the new air defense systems to test them. There was no need for the whole country to be protected for these to be tested. They are just deployed around strategic sites. No doubt Israel knew were they were located and sought them out.

As far as set-up and the need for other infrastructure, these systems are self sufficient. They have no need for additional support and can roam around and be deployed where they are needed. Read the full article on the weapon system for full details.

reply to post by dbates


source = DKBA; source = bias and is only as good as one of `sorchas` articles.

You guys are a hard sell, but fair enough. Here are a couple more sources.

Time - Why Did Israeli Planes Enter Syria?
"There seems to be a consensus here that the Israelis were testing Syrian air defense systems," Andrew Tabler, Damascus-based editor of Syria Today, told TIME.

Telegraph - US confirms Israeli air strike on Syria
Another theory gaining ground yesterday was that Israel was deliberately attacking the Russian-made Pantsyr air defence system recently bought by Damascus

[edit on 17-10-2007 by dbates]

both times and torygraph refer to debka as the source

and debka is run by the israel governemnt.

All these so called experts talking about deployment and training times cannot provide a single source to back themsleves up. It is quite common for countries purchasing equipment from Russia to send people there to be trained before the equipment is delivered. As dbates(one of the only people to have done any research) the system is self contained, it it takes several months to get it up and running then it truly is junk.