I said start another thread. I don't want to divert this one, so this is my only response on this off-topic topic.
Originally posted by iskander
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV
when has the US begged, borrowed, stolen or bought info or technology from either the USSR or Russia?
Through out the entire Cold War, it’s standard procedure, called intelligence gathering.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. That's called "forewarning".
These days in more in the field of industrial espionage, financial sabotage/takeovers, etc.
Again, wrong.
We wanted their MiG-15 just as bad as they wanted the F-86, and that never ends.
Again, wrong. The yanks wanted it so they could fly it themselves. There was no tech on it they didn't already have and the engine, specifically, was
a Western product; the Rolls Royce Nene, in fact. As for jets themselves. The Soviets owed theirs to the Germans, the Yanks owed theirs to the UK, who
had them BEFORE the USSR.
And, further, when has the USSR or Russia successfully introduced a weapons system before the US or the West? I return your attention
to the word "successfully".
HowlrunnerIV, that one I’ll leave to you to find out. Please do look into Soviet POLICY which drove generational weapon systems requirements for
their MIC.
No, no, no. No dodging. You made the assertion, you back it up. In a new thread.
It has to do with causality and action-reaction type of things.
No. It has to do with teaching and learning and budget allocations.
They play chess, we play poker and bluff our butts off while they consider bluffing only as a last result because statistically when it’s
called it shows a position of weakness.
Wow. How to totally misunderstand Cold War Politik and Cold War dynamics. I am well impressed. Kennedy *may* have been bluffing over Cuban Missile
Crisis. The US wasn't bluffing when it consistently produced better aircraft than the USSR. The UK wasn't bluffing when it consistently produced
better tanks than the USSR.
Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
when has the USSR or Russia successfully introduced a weapons system before the US or the West? I return your attention to the word
"successfully".
HowlrunnerIV let me respectfully suggest that the Russians have been ahead of us from the getgo not beginning with but including Luna 1, 2, and 3. And
in case you don't know what they are, they were missions to the moon in 1959. Luna 3 took pictures of trhe farside in 1959.
John, who doesn't know about Sputnik, Laika and Yuri Gargarin. I specifically said weapons system. Soyuz rockets may have been a great test-bed for
ICBM technology, but they were not themselves ICBMs.
The only success the U.S. has had in countering Russian techonology is covering up the fact that the Russians have always been
ahead.
I said nothing about countering USSR tech. If the USSR has always been so far ahead, why the panic-driven development of the Foxbat A? An interceptor
whose only purpose was to shoot down a bomber that was never put into production? An interceptor which couldn't out-turn or out-shoot any Western
fighter? If they were so far ahead why didn't they shoot down the first U2 overflight?
Oh yes, they soft landed on the moon in 1966 while we were still one year away from killing 4 astronauts on the pad in Apollo 1.
Funny, but I don't call ramming photographic missions into the moon "soft".
As far as your question when has Russia "successfully" introduced a weapon system, before the U.S. or the west the question should be when
'haven't' they?
Got any examples?
The joke is on the American public who think the Russians are a bunch of bumbling idiots whose sole contribution to the space effort is to
deliver fresh fruit with Progress. Oh yes, you probably think Progress is fully automated and nobody is in them, right?
1. Not Amercan, north, south or central. 2. No. Being from the Commonwealth I actually studied the industrial revolution at school. You know, the part
of history where the British invented the modern world with their bare hands (that's me deliberately misunderstanding "Progress")...As for the
Soviets and the space race, their contribution was to learn the dangers of a pure oxygen environment long before Gus Grissom and co's horrific
demise. So, I guess they really were ahead. Say, how many USAF Generals have been killed by IRBM launchers exploding during demonstration launches?
But thanks for the post, it confirms my suspicions about the gulllibility of the American public. 
Thanks for making assumptions. You know what they say about assuming things, it just makes an ass...
