Would you convert to Islam if threatened with the sword?

I was curious, in a worst case scenario, if Islamists took over the world and subjugated your community to death by beheading or conversion to Islam, after being displeased by the sheer number of Westerners requesting dhimmi status to keep their faith (by paying tax and being second class, as dictated in the Pact of Umar), after the Muslims had conquered the world, which one would you choose?

So when the day came for you and your family to show up at the Mosque, would you:

A) Take death by beheading. If you're a man, you must watch your wife beheaded first, as well as any children, that is if the wife or children refused to convert.

B) Convert to Islam. Whether or not you're a secret apostate is your business, right? Maybe your religion could hope to be a small secretive community like the Druze in Israel & Lebanon are, after centuries of Islamic persecution.

C) Take death and actively encourage your family to take death as well.

D) Convert to Islam and strongly encourage your family to do the same.


In this scenario, a major Islamist group takes over Pakistan's government. These guys are friends with Al-Qaeda and Taliban, and supply Iran with nukes. The big war breaks out after terrorist detonate dirty bombs in the U.S. and one in Denmark. Russia announces that they are siding with Pakistan / Iran and will soon be an Islamic Republic. Theres a war, the West loses to the combined might of the Islamist forces, the Russians, and the Terrorists. Which means All of Europe as well as Canada & the USA are under occupation from Russian & Islamist forces.

(With the instability in Pakistan right now, this scenario isn't even far fetched.)

If you want to know my answer, I'd convert. No, im no traitor, but Jesus is acknowledged as a prophet in Islam, and I could still focus my personal thoughts on him, as opposed to say, Muhammed. I direct my prayers to the One God anyways, only then I'd be doing it 5 times a day in a certain direction. Oh yeah, this is fasting month for them too. Eer.. hey at least I'd still have a head on my shoulders! Lol..

[edit on 10/4/2007 by runetang]

Heck no, I wouldn't convert to any cult forcibly...I'd much rather kill myself than do that! And especially not Islam! that's the worst of all mainstream cults imho...

why is islam a cult?

sure i would convert if my life depended on it.. if thats all the sword bearer wants to hear, why not?

it's not like i'm actually going to do anything.. islamic..

I'd most certainly go with B. I find equal wisdom in the bible as in the qu'ran. Besides, that's exactly what most people did during the inquisition, crusades, etc. western religion may not appear to be so horrible now, but that's only relatively speaking.

reply to post by runetang


interesting and a very flawed topic

1. Islam cant be forced on someone as they could esily say im muslim and not really give a sizer about islam. (which i have gone into detail so many times its becoming a joke, having to repet the same thing over again and again)

2. i find this topics humrous as you asume its a muslims duty to forcefully convert others

I am a follower of Jesus Christ, he personally rescued me and stood me in the light of God just outside heaven...how could I choose my temporary and ever decaying flesh over that truth and everlasting life?

Blessings....

reply to post by bodrul


I never claimed it was a muslim's duty to convert others! This is a purely hypothetical scenario, ie the extremists get control of the world. It's simple. But yes, it is a shame one could even think of this fantasy scenario, that some of the pieces are even there, like Al-Qaeda. But anyway..

I just want to know who's willing to die for what and why, really..

i'd do it.

why?
it doesn't matter, i'd be a muslim in name only. i still wouldn't believe it and would choose apostasy the second i got out of the situation.

Sure, if only to get the Imam off my back.

I mean, I live in Scotland anyway, any radical Muslims stupid enough to try and convert people by force are almost certainly stupid enough to try the local "delicacies" (deep fried kebab, anyone?). Not to mention the freezing cold and the bloody SNP. I'd give them a week at best.

I'd sooner die than convert to any religion, regardless of the religion...hell, how can you force someone to believe in something?

You can't help what you believe in, methinks. I'd have to see proof.

I'd take B/D and so would probably 95% of the people here as well once the killing started...

Of course, outside the public eye I would be a rebel anti-theist.

reply to post by Kaliayev


"To get the Imam off my back..?"

Sorry...Nope...and that's my final answer... Regis.

There's alot of people in this world that would uphold their faiths.

~Sticking my scrawny Ducky neck out~

(Cheesy vid)

'Aint nothing gonna breaka my stride

2. i find this topics humrous as you asume its a muslims duty to forcefully convert others

But it is a Muslim's duty to forcefully convert others, Allah Himself tells Muslims to do so in the Quran:

The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

reply to post by Ersatz


No, it is not a Muslim's duty to forcefully convert others. In fact, according to Islam, it is impossible to forcefully convert someone.
I invite you to look up those passages you quoted. Read a few lines above and a few lines below. Read the ENTIRE verses. You don't even have to come back here and post your findings. Just be honest with yourself.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Ersatz

 

No, it is not a Muslim's duty to forcefully convert others. In fact, according to Islam, it is impossible to forcefully convert someone.
I invite you to look up those passages you quoted. Read a few lines above and a few lines below. Read the ENTIRE verses. You don't even have to come back here and post your findings. Just be honest with yourself.

I am always honest with myself, I am not sure what you are talking about, Muslims always say that other people are quoting out of context.

The "out of context" excuse has worn very thin.

EVERYTHING I QUOTED IS COPIED FROM AN ISLAMIC SITE:

islamqa.com...

Do you understand what "abrogated" means? Do you know how many abrogations there are in the Noble Quran?

Both OFFENSIVE and defensive Jihad are prescribed in the Quran, in fact Jihad is regarded by some scholars as the Sixth pillar of Islam.

“And We brought forth iron wherein is mighty power (in matters of war), as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allaah may test who it is that will help Him (His religion) and His Messengers in the unseen”

[al-Hadeed 27:25]

So whoever deviates from the Book is to be brought back with iron, i.e. by force. Hence the soundness of the religion is based on the Qur’aan and the Sword. It was narrated that Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah said: The Messenger of Allaah commanded us to strike with this, meaning the sword, whoever turns away from this, meaning the Qur’aan.

Ibn al-Qayyim said in al-Faroosiyyah (p.18):

Allaah sent him – meaning the Prophet – with the guiding Book and the conquering sword, ahead of the Hour, so that Allaah alone would be worshipped with no partner or associate, and his provision was placed beneath the shade of his sword and spear. Allaah has established the religion of Islam with proof and evidence, and with the sword and spear, both together and inseparable.

This is some of the evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah. The evidence clearly indicates that the sword is one of the most important means that led to the spread of Islam.

Indeed, through force, and Muhammad in fact did force people to Islam, through threat of death or oppressive rule.

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

reply to post by Ersatz


Did you read it, then?

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Ersatz

 

Did you read it, then?

Is Sunday your brain's day off or are you just feeling mentally dense?

How sweet and polite you are!

Some things you might want to know:
About islamqa.com - It is interesting, that by typing "Islam" into Google, you can get a number of very useful sites on the 1st page. Why did you choose islamqa?
About abrogation
About abrogation
About Al-Hadeed - It is Surah 57, not 27
About al-Faroosiyyah - It is neither a book of the Quran, nor is it from the Hadeeth. It has no relevance to Islam.

[edit on 7-10-2007 by babloyi]

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Ersatz

 

Did you read it, then?

why bother ?

i have gone through several topics saying the same thing, even with quotes and sites,

quote from another topic

Originally posted by bodrul
Converting others to islam and None muslims

source 1
In Islamic teachings, a Muslim is not allowed to force others to convert. "Let there be no compulsion in religion...." (Al-Islam - Al-Baqarah: 256)

"Jihad is not a war to force the faith on others, as many people think of it. It should never be interpreted as a way of compulsion of the belief on others, since there is an explicit verse in the Qur'an that says: 'There is no compulsion in religion' Al-Qur'an: Al-Baqarah (2:256)." ( Islamic Server of MSA-USC)

Instead, a Muslim must be respectful of other religions. By extension, an Islamic government is not allowed to compel anyone to be a Muslim.

Source 2
409. One should not forget the great practical importance attached to the fact that Muslims obey their system of law as something of Divine origin, and not merely the will of the majority of the leaders of the country. In this latter case, the minority enters on a struggle so that its own conceptions may prevail. In the democracies of our time, not only do the majorities often change from election to election but are also constituted or disintegrated by all sorts of commutations and combinations, and the party in power tries to upset the policy pursued by its predecessors, causing, among other changes, the modification of laws. Without entering here into the question of the adaptability of Islamic laws to the exigencies of social evolution, one might deem it as an incontestable truth that there is greater stability in the Muslim law - due to the Divine origin - than in any other secular legislation of the world with the following result :

410. The Islamic law ordains justice to, and observation of certain rules regarding the non-Muslims. These therefore feel no apprehension in the face of political quarrels and parliamentary elections of the country of their residence, with regard to the Islamic laws in force. The ruler or parliament cannot modify them.

The thing is though it's all well and good saying that yeah you'll convert but you'd probably end up beheaded anyway for not showing up to prayer 5 times a day or getting the direction of Mecca wrong.

In before some smart ass comes and says 'HO HO HO your blowing it out of proportion' well let me put this to them...It's well and good saying that and practicing your faith and sitting there on your computer in all probability in a WESTERN country that has some form of democracy in place.

Try living in Somalia or somewhere were everyone is ruled under Sharia Law and you will be beheaded or stoned for stupid reasons like already mentioned and then come back and tell us all how rosy it is.

Also tough luck if your jewish cause we all know what happens there like the time Old Mo beheaded 800 jewish men back in the day.