The Maya and Gandalf

So I was watching a cheesy conspiracy documentary the other day, and some crazy-lookin' pseudo-historian is going on about a "caucasian man with long white hair and beard, who went around spreading wisdom and gave the Maya many important things" like metalworking or whatever. He apparently came from the atlantic ocean (I'm guessing this is an Atlantis reference).

However, after spending a bit of time doing research to see if I can find more about the Mayan Gandalf, I can't find a single reference.

Anyone got any ideas on this?

Could you be talking about Quetzalcoatl?

Quetzalcoatl was often considered the god of the morning star. .. He was known as the inventor of books and the calendar, the giver of maize (corn) to mankind, and sometimes as a symbol of death and resurrection. ..It has been widely believed that the Aztec Emperor Moctezuma II initially believed the landing of Hernán Cortés in 1519 to be Quetzalcoatl's return.

Link


[edit on 10/4/2007 by pstiffy]

Originally posted by pstiffy
Could you be talking about Quetzalcoatl?

Wow, that name's a mouthful.

Originally posted by pstiffy
Could you be talking about Quetzalcoatl?

Quetzalcoatl was often considered the god of the morning star. .. He was known as the inventor of books and the calendar, the giver of maize (corn) to mankind, and sometimes as a symbol of death and resurrection. ..It has been widely believed that the Aztec Emperor Moctezuma II initially believed the landing of Hernán Cortés in 1519 to be Quetzalcoatl's return.

Link


[edit on 10/4/2007 by pstiffy]

I don't think it was. I'm familiar with Quetzalcoatl, and I don't recall hearing descriptions of him looking like "an old white man with a long white beard and long white hair", i recall him being a feathered flying serpent.

The Mormon religion believes that this is proof positive of Jesus Christ visiting in the America's.
The stories of this white man, Quetzalcoatl in South America to be precise.
They (The Mormons) take this as the pure FACT which proves that The Book Of Mormon is as real as the nose on your face.


[edit on 5-10-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

Yeah, I know of that.

I believe the Aztecs believed in that too, about a white man with a beard...

Because when the Spanish came, Cortés matched that description, and they thought he was a god...big mistake. This allowed the Spanish to plunder their land.

You've probably already read the Wikipedia article on Quetzalcaotl. If you haven't, it has some decent information on the subject, such as how a feathered serpent could become associated/interchangeable with a historical figure. The section most pertinent to this conversation comes under the section of the article titled "In Modern Times", which says:

Some theories associate Quetzalcoatl with Vishnu, the second God of the Hindu Trinity. Vishnu is said to have an Eagle (Garuda) and a Serpent (Adisesha) as his vehicle. [1] Some modern esoteric groups, sometimes called "Mexicanistas", have mixed the cult of Quetzalcoatl with modern esoteric practices. There are also claims that Quetzalcoatl was either a lone viking, a Phoenician, Levite, a survivor from Atlantis, or even an extraterrestrial[citation needed].

Some followers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claim that the idea of Quetzalcoatl descended from the visitation of Jesus Christ to the Americas after his resurrection in about 34 AD. This is recorded in great detail in The Book of Mormon following the end of his ministry in Judea. This claim is based in the idea that the name (translated as Feathered Serpent) was given because Christ was born and preached among the poor (serpents move along the ground) and because of the manner in which he appeared in Mesoamerica (descending from heaven). This idea is most prominently voiced by the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS) and is not official doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In The Secret Teachings Of All Ages Manly P. Hall demonstrates Quetzalcoatl as a solar god, like Bacchus, Mythras, or Christ:

One of the most remarkable of the crucified World Saviors is the Central American god of the winds, or the Sun, Quetzalcoatl, concerning whose activities great secrecy was maintained by the Indian priests of Mexico and Central America. This strange immortal, whose name means feathered snake, appears to have come out of the sea, bringing with him a mysterious cross. On his garments were embellished clouds and red crosses. In his honor, great serpents carved from stone were placed in different parts of Mexico.

The cross of Quetzalcoatl became a sacred symbol among the Mayas, and according to available records the Maya Indian angels had crosses of various pigments painted on their foreheads. Similar crosses were placed over the eyes of those initiated into their Mysteries. When Cortez arrived in Mexico, he brought with him the cross. Recognizing this, the natives believed that he was Quetzalcoatl returned, for the latter had promised to come back in the infinite future and redeem his people.

In Anacalypsis, Godfrey Higgins throws some light on the cross and its symbolism in America: "The Incas had a cross of very fine marble, or beautiful jasper, highly polished, of one piece, three-fourths of an ell in length, and three fingers in width and thickness. It was kept in a sacred chamber of a palace, and held in great veneration. The Spaniards enriched this cross with gold and jewels, and placed it in the cathedral of Cuzco. Mexican temples are in the form of a cross, and face the four cardinal points. Quexalcoatl is represented in the paintings of the Codex Borgianus nailed to the cross. Sometimes even the two thieves are there crucified with him. In Vol. II. plate 75, the God is crucified in the Heavens, in a circle of nineteen figures, the number of the Metonic cycle. A serpent is depriving him of the organs of generation. In the Codex Borgianus, (pp. 4, 72, 73, 75,) the Mexican God is represented crucified and nailed to the cross, and in another place hanging to it, with a cross in his hands. And in one instance, where the figure is not merely outlined, the cross is red, the clothes are coloured, and the face and hands quite black. If this was the Christianity of the German Nestorius, how came he to teach that the crucified Savior was black? The name of the God who was crucified was Quexalcoatl.

Interesting to say the least. Now would Gandalf fit into this solar deity archetype? He did rise again after being swallowed by the earth.

hmmm. The vikings got to novia scotia before columbus, maybe they got to central and south america ?

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Wow, that name's a mouthful.

No doubt!

kwet-sol-cot-al

It's hard to imagine a benevolent viking...

that might be what the movie "Pathfinder" is about. I have it, it has some cool viking violence. It's about a viking kid who gets left behind in a raid somewhere in the Americas. He is raised by the Native Americans and then protects them from the next viking raid when he grows up.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
It's hard to imagine a benevolent viking...

Really? Well I guess they get a lot of bad press.

I think if you look a bit deeper into Nordic culture you will find that they aren't all axe swinging blood thirsty maniacs...

I thought i should add that in "Pathfinder" the kid got left behind because he wouldn't kill someone. He was viewed as weak and got whiped in the fashion of "The Passion" before being left for dead. Thats kind of an important part of the jesus comparison i think...