What is it about the oil rich Nations of the World?

First of all, this isnt what you would call a formal study of EVERY single oil rich Nation and their Govt Systems, backed by links and absolute facts.. So dont bother with the same old boring "links please" or "wheres your proof" posts.

Why is it that most of the oil rich Nations in the World tend to be in one way or another either anti west or have some type of "extremist" type of Government?
For example, Citgo Petroleum. I dont know how far across the country that Citgo stations stretch but they are all over Texas and a lot of people I speak to are surprised to learn that they are out of Venezuela and if I'm not mistaken are now a state owned company, thanks to Hugo Chavez.
Then there is Mexico, there is a LOT of oil that comes out of Mexico and since I live about 2 hours from Nuevo Laredo Mx, I can attest to how absolutely corrupt that Mexico is. They seem to constantly have one foot in the "leftist" grave and will probably end up going that way, sooner or later.
Then of course there is all of the M.E. Nations.. Yea, I know that Saudi Arabia is technically considered a US ally but well, it seems you never know with these Islamic Nations. Iran was also a very good friend of the US.. at one time..
Then, there is Russia.. Putin is using funds from sales of their vast oil fields to completely rebuild the Russian military and they seem to be acting more like their old "Cold War-ish" selves everyday..
There are other examples but you guys get the point..
I'm just curious about this, really.. I was thinking about it this weekend..

Dont turn this into a typical BS American bashing extravaganza please
because most of these countries were like this way before the US was the No 1 most hated country. A distinction that I'm not a bit ashamed of but I just want to keep out of this thread..

...tend to be in one way or another either anti west or have some type of "extremist" type of Government

maybe that is because we topple their governments, bomb their infrastructure, steal their oil and "liberate" their people so much

At one time the U.S. was the top oil producing country of the world. We still are a major oil producer, in fact. As are many European countries such as the UK, the Netherlands and Norway for example.

I guess it's just the luck of the draw really as to what areas got what resources. The U.S. is really far more blessed by its natural resources than a sun parched place like Saudi Arabia that only offers petroleum IMO.

reply to post by TheRepublic


Couldnt get past 3 F'n replies without an idiot posting the same BS dribble that I asked NOT to be put into this thread..
IF you had read my entire post and dont lie and say you did, you wouldve seen where I stated that MOST of these countries were this way years and years ago...

Hey "TheRepublic" my new signature is made in YOUR honor..
haha


Dj.. I realize all that you said but NOTHING compares to the reserves that lay under the deserts of Saudi, Kuwait and Iraq..
Oh wait, Iraqs oil is ours right? lmao.. jk

[edit on 10/2/2007 by Kr0n0s]

If you been to places like Morocco, Kuwait, and Indonesia, you will see the huge riches that makes Bill Gates blush. Giant mansions with imported italian marble statues, 5 minutes drive past hundred foot long fountains before you see the actual house.

Also try the night life in Morocco, or Indonesia, you will see the sons of so-called government officials driving Lamborgini, Ferraris and those are typical cars for the oil kids.

And then turn your head and look across the road, you will see the poor living in newspaper and sturdily built cardboard box houses that last years.

Extreme corruption runs in the blood of those who are in those countries. And they are not even afraid to show it off. Take a trip to those countries and open your eyes to the true meaning of "excess" and inequality. And then you will know how lucky you are to be in the USA where you can bi*tch about your own president without consequences.

Just imagine a cosmic one armed bandit slot machine where for each country the lever is pulled and the reels start to roll.

The wheels are labelled:

Natural resources, government, history and relationships with others.

Sometimes you get jackpot, some times you craps out (a gambling term). Without naming any names, because all countries have done this at some point, some governments find that it is useful to meddle in the affairs of other sovereign nations because oil is such an important resource. OPEC was a cartel set up to control oil prices for political leverage even though cartels are considered illeagal under most forms of comercial law. Oil = Money = Power so those that have it want to keep it, those who don't want to gain it.

Some oil rich nations have puppet governments, some are not frightened about turning the screw. They all still sell their oil despite claiming to hate the West. What is clear is that as we approach peak oil the reactions of all nations will become more and more desparate.

We should all do more to conserve energy and reduce reliance upon foreign oil imports, we should also be seeking non-oil based means of powering our economies at the same time.

Oil, like gold, is one of the issues that has driven expansionism throughout the world since the beginning of time. When it is gone it might be one less reason to go messing in someone else back yard. The problem is that the worlds population are fiddling while rome burns and instead of trying to find a viable alternative the world spends gigantic sums of money fighting or negotiating to gain another dwindling source of oil.

What happens when all of the wells run dry and we have nothing else to put in place? What happens when despite huge wars (themselves using oil) we can no longer gather enough to run our economies?

We need to ween ourselves off dependency on oil and unfortunately some of that effort will mean conservation of what we do have.

The trillion dollars spent on the war in Iraq could have been spent in the development of Hydrogen fuel cell transportation. Currently we have busses running on this in Portland Oregon.

I agree with the very simple answer that they are mad at the west because our companies take the resources they seem to think they deserve to profit from.

I would also like to add that some of the hate you see in the media is spin shown so our government has a reason to go in and take more oil.

And then turn your head and look across the road, you will see the poor living in newspaper and sturdily built cardboard box houses that last years.

I had heard that in places like Saudi Arabia that each citizen gets a certain amount of money to live, not just a little bit either. Ive heard numbers that vary, usually between 50-75,000.00.
It doesnt sound right to me but has anyone else heard this as well?

Personally I would love to have a safe, reliable and plentiful alternate energy source to run my little F-150 pickup but I dont see it becoming very mainstream
anytime in my life and I'm 38..
First you would have to get the automakers to latch onto the idea and start producing hydrogen vehicles in numerous quantities, then there would need to be sufficient numbers of places around the country to be able to refuel them at.
Hydrogen power is where my biggest hopes to get us off oil lie.
I dont know how much more volatile it is than gasoline though, I sure
wouldnt want to have to rename my truck the hindenburg.

As far as hydrogen cars becoming mainstream I will just say again.

A trillion dollars.

reply to post by Redge777


That is a lot and there are VERY few Corps that could undertake something like that but if anyone could do it, the oil companies themselves could.
Im suspecting that if and when hydrogen ever does become mainstream, it will be them that does it because if a competitor tries to do it, they would get crushed by the oil industry.

What I suspect is happening there's a new race to control outer space which is fueling the absurd posturing among the top oil producing countries.

Russia or China will out pace the US if this isn't recognized. OPEC still comes out a winner.

im an f'in idiot????

you ask a question and then say you only want ONE type of answer... whilst ignoring the most obvious.

what is more idiotic than that?

so what if they have oil? IT IS THEIR OIL.
other than that they have nothing, its all desert.
the government that you mentioned being good in iran WAS SET UP BY US...
we toppled the government of mosadeq and put in a puppet. they hate us because we are screwing with their countries and lives over the one resource they have. I would hate us too.


you sir, know nothing of the middle east or of the wonderful people that live there, YOUR ignorance reeks to high heaven.

if you want to watch fox news bich an whine about the evil arabs, and why they have all of "our" oil, and give high fives yelling "america rocks!!!" all day that is your choice,

but dont dare call others stupid, when your knowledge of the subject is obviously restricted to what the corperate media decides to poop on your plate.
go to the middle east stay there for a year, meet many arabs of diffrent nations, learn arabic.

then you can call me an idiot

[edit on 3-10-2007 by TheRepublic]

Anyone that would like to learn a little more about Iran these threads are pretty good
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and
"The Secret Government" shows how the US works in other countries 1987 pbs documentary.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

reply to post by TheRepublic

then you can call me an idiot

I already did and your ignorant ranting proves my point.. Thanks

ignorant ranting? did you even read it?

no probably not. all you wanted to do was make some trite reply, so you don’t have to strain your infantile brain anymore with thought.

oh and thank you for addressing the valid points i brought up. you ineptitude in addressing them proves your lack of merit for trying to host any intelligent commentary on "oil rich countries"

but what would anyone expect from someone whos signature says "i would have been your daddy but a dog beat me over a fence"


[edit on 3-10-2007 by TheRepublic]

reply to post by TheRepublic


Why should I address any of your points when your very first post was exactly what I asked NOT to be brought into this thread? You dont want intelligent conversation, you want to bash Bush, Cheney and whoever else you want to blame on the worlds problems
Your kind are way to predictable and just not worth any more of my time...

I would conjecture that the reason many oil-rich nations seem incredibly corrupt and extremist is that the governments of those countries ultimately control export and industry. They make money off of oil exports and this provides a source of power. With such power they go to incredible lengths to protect their position; to the point that they mistreat their own people.

As for USA-bashing, the USA deserves it. The OP cannot honestly expect an entirely truthful answer to his question without accounting for the USA's meddling in the ME. Do you think many citizens of the said countries hate us solely because of our culture? This is a very small portion of the real issue, and it would be naive to assign it more relevance than necessary.

The USA, as well as other western nations, but particularly the USA, has a nasty habit of overthrowing governments that are democratically elected and peaceful in the name of protecting resources. We have often replaced them with brutal regimes. We did this in Algeria, Iran, Vietnam, Guatemala, and many many other countries. We have been doing this since the 1950's.

As a matter of fact, the "friendly" Iranian government run by the Shah was probably one of the most brutal in the history of the Middle East. Same deal with the totalitarian government in Vietnam prior to the Vietnam war. Both of these governments were installed and/or supported by the USA, in the name of protecting ourselves from Communism. Look at Saudi Arabia- this is a government straight out of the 12th century, but we support them strongly because of their oil.

You want to know why countries that are rich in natural resources are often brutal, extremist, and anti-American? I just gave you two very good reasons. You may not like the second reason, but it is quite true, and you cannot divorce the anger towards the USA in many countries from our actions in those countries.

[edit on 4-10-2007 by erkokite]

reply to post by erkokite


erkokite.. It isnt the fact that I dont agree that my country is a bully its just that the same argument is old and tired now. Therepublics first reply was the same typical and transparent bashing that goes on here constantly and in my opinion its a waste of time. Read his first post, it added NOTHING to the discussion, just bashing..That is the reason I refuse to give him any consideration what so ever!
I didnt ask the question that I asked to get into another tireless political debate. The question that I asked was why these Nations that had rich oil supplies tended to have a "leftists" or socialized type government, not necessarily why they hated the US because as a US citizen myself, I already know why we are hated..
Now, having said that..
Your opinion that you stated in your first paragraph is the best that I've heard so far and it is one that I didnt really think about, so I thank you for your input.

Peace

btw, the sig line that I put in his honor is just a joke.. it is actually
a quote from the new game Halo 3.
It is the name of a skull that you find, anyone thats played Halo will know what im talking about..
The skulls name is
"I woulda been your daddy but a dog beat me over the fence"

[edit on 10/4/2007 by Kr0n0s]

this is not about "right" or "left" its about right and wrong, and what the US is doing is wrong.

trying to have a conversation on oil politics without discussing US and CIA involvement is like giving some dude who has his arm blown off a haircut. it makes no sense whatever and completely ignores the true problem.

im a true conservative, not some neocon, who watches the news and thinks they know whats going on. i am not a US basher. i love this country more than you know, thats why i speak out when it gets out of hand.

i stand by what i said. its the truth.

reply to post by TheRepublic


I understand all of that, trust me! I am a conservative myself. I feel betrayed by this current administration, who in my opinion are nothing more than fascist pigs and since Bush is from my state, I take it even more personal.
Everyone, just like me, will remember where they were when 911 happened but there is another day that I will remember just as vividly, the day that I realized I was lied to about Iraq. The disappointment and sense of betrayal that I felt on that day, will be with me forever.

Not only am I very concerned about our status in the world, I am even more concerned about the status of our internal issues. My biggest fear is that we are turning into what we cursed when I was in Jr. High, the USSR, Cuba and Red China.

Dont be fooled into thinking that to be in a Police State you have to have armed soldiers monitoring your every move.
There is so much more to it than that, some of them can be and in some cases are very passive in nature and they will ALWAYS be in the name of security..

However, that wasnt what I wanted in this thread. All I wanted was some light hearted discussion on nothing more than Geography and Geology I guess..
Trust me, I know all of the politics. I know what Hugo Chavez hates the US.
I know that there was an attempt on his life a few years ago and I know that he blames Bush and the CIA and he is probably right BUT he was the way he was before that, the same with the M.E.


So no, you dont have to preach to me about my Country because I already know, Its just that I am sick of it being dragged into EVERY SINGLE THREAD..
Someone can make a thread about Alien Invasion and someone, somewhere, would say, "it isnt aliens, its those DAMN Americans, dressed up as Aliens..

So, peace to you as well

btw, I apologize for jumping on you and calling you an idiot.. it was a knee jerk reaction and uncalled for.
Ive read a couple of your posts in other threads and you actually seem very intelligent..


[edit on 10/5/2007 by Kr0n0s]