Originally posted by milesp

If you look at the relatively short history of this country, the military, by and large, has been used to project American power around the globe, most often at the expense of other people. I believe this is counter to the spirit of the American revolution. It's happened over and over again, and it's well documented, so there's no excuse for not knowing except turning a blind eye. Choosing ignorance.

Let me ask you a question, do you think our military has helped more countries/people in the world with goodwill and not force, or do you think we have projected American power at the expense of other people more?

Do soldiers deserve more respect than the protestors in the streets risking their safety and freedom to end what they believe is an unjust and illegal war which is harming the American people? Do they deserve less because they don't do their duty as citizens and instead blindly follow orders from above?

I don't think the protestors risks anything since it is their right to protest. Now if the protestors use illegal means to protest then there are some risks. Have you ever protested and felt your life or freedom was in jeopardy?

I know i'm walking a fine line here, but like I said, I'm conflicted on this issue. I respect the fact that they are willing to lay down their lives for what they believe in, but if they know that the people they take orders from are corrupt, they should refuse to serve and know that it takes just as much courage to stand up for what you believe in as it does to fire a weapon.

Ok since all the government is corrupt I say lets all stop working!!
Every policeman, fireman, military member, government employed civilian, every government contractor employee etc lets all just stay home until the government fixes itself. Oh, or maybe lets all just stop working every time we disagree with who ever is in the oval office.

I think that is what I’m reading in your post. This is my fifth president I have worked under while in the military and I can tell you I didn’t like the eight years under Clinton very much, but I still did my job. I truly do not understand your point. WE THE PEOPLE vote who goes into office, and when the PEOPLE vote I follow their vote by following the person that they voted for. This is how it is done…sorry if you do not like the system.

Just because a person works for Kinko’s and protests the war doesn’t make them a better American than me just because I follow someone voted into office by the people that I might not agree with.




[edit on 3-10-2007 by Xtrozero]

you don't have to respect the individual, but the Uniform.

I was a Marine, I respected all civilians, I hated most of the Marines, a lot of them were scummy, and only a few of them would I trust behind me with a rifle and live rounds...

However, I also knew if I got in a firefight or they did, we would aid each other to live through it..band of brothers and all that.........

I want to move to New Zeeland, it has no crime, no wealth, and everything is free, sounds Idyllic always at peace, everyone gets along and thinks alike..

there is so much more I can say but even in a "Just" war bad things happen just look up "Dresden" that was during WWII.......

how wonderful all those of you that are so strongly against the Iraq invasion and think all military are "just killers" have not removed Bush from Office, where is the strength of your conviction? No matter what country you are from, why have you allowed him and the congress ans senate behind him to remain?

why have you not tried to stop this, by any means if you feel so strongly? Is it because of cowardice? Or could it be it's "too much effort for you?" It's so much easier to just post your hatred for those which you know little about?

the Iraq war was a scam, we know that, but when you are being shot at and you can shoot back, you will shoot or die.....

"if you don't stand behind the troops feel free to stand in front of them"

in other words "put up, or shut up" that would require, of course, deep convictions

How deep are yours?

They have made the world very unsafe. They are very gullable. They have mostly good intentions but GOD are they stupid. It is very hard to respect them, but I do. Forgive them, they know not what they do, well,most of them.

Are we fighting a War on Terror, or a War of Terror?

Why do Iraqis need democracy, who cares?

Who's going to pay for all this?

Will our injured soldiers get the care they need?

Will Islamists hold a grudge?

Are we desecrating Islam?

Can our leadership be trusted?

Have we thrown away our future?

Yes they are people that bleed just like you and me but the same goes for celebrities. Celebrities make a lot of money for entertaining us, not protecting nations. People will stand in line for autographs and pictures. That looks like demi-god if not god status to me.

Originally posted by zoso28
you only need to know that soldiers fought and died so that you can express the opinion that you just did. as a veteran i will only say "your welcome". feel free to express yourself any way you like

I'm so tired of this sentiment!

The real fact is that the US government doesn't respect it's soldiers. Look at what's happening to veterans. They may give you a piece of crap medal, but after that they basically want you to eff off.

The only soldiers I have any blanket respect for are the one's that have no choice (whatever that may be) but to become a soldier. The others with delusions of grandeur have to earn my respect by doing something other than just "being a soldier". Wanting to be regimented, mindless drones doesn't help their cause. They do nothing for society as a whole contrary to what they may think (see quote above).

Don't hate me because of my statements, hate your government because of their actions.

Peace

[edit on 3-10-2007 by Dr Love]

Originally posted by wardk28
Yes they are people that bleed just like you and me but the same goes for celebrities. Celebrities make a lot of money for entertaining us, not protecting nations. People will stand in line for autographs and pictures. That looks like demi-god if not god status to me.

But who, other than the terminally retarded, gives a flying # about celebrities.

Also, celebrities aren't paid to kill people on the orders of morally questionable individuals who want to steal another sovereign nations natural resources.

Originally posted by earthman4
They have made the world very unsafe. They are very gullable. They have mostly good intentions but GOD are they stupid. It is very hard to respect them, but I do. Forgive them, they know not what they do, well,most of them.

Gullable in what way?

As I said We The People vote into office who we want to lead us, and the military follows those people that We The People selected for us to follow.

How has the military made the world unsafe? We do not make policy in anyway, never have and never will. If the whole govenment is one big NWO scam then we all are screwed and what we do or you do really will not matter then.

I actually have pity for the person who just sits in their house bitching about everything that is bad and doesn’t lift a finger to do anything about it. How many of you posting here fit that description?



[edit on 3-10-2007 by Xtrozero]

2x post monster struck again

[edit on 3-10-2007 by Xtrozero]

Ok... the soldiers of America have a great deal to be thanked for. For example: expressing you have no pitty for someones father, son, brother, or daughter being blown the hell up by an enemy. I am totally against war and killing and violence, but sinse Bush has already made it apparant that we are screwed now, we need someone to take of us here in America. I understand that, yeah they did sign up, it was thier choice to go overseas; but seriously, that is one of the most disrespectful things i have ever heard.
If it weren't for soldiers America wouldn't be here today and you couldn't sit and bash them for protecting to country.
Im sure there are several people at this post who are soldiers or know someone who is and I would be very upset (especially if you lost someone).
I think that this is a very very selfish thing to say. No one asked you to fly overseas, away from YOUR family and friends. No one asked you to be in the middle of an America hating country to fight for your or your families freedom. No one asked you to be blown up or killed for what you believe in. Don't diss the ones who actually protect this country untill you acutally see what its like or untill you lose the freedom you have.
Everything you do in this country is thanks to The American Soldiers.
I hope someday "his heart grew three times its size that day" (dr.seuss) and you will be thankful for what you DO have and appreciate the mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, brothers and sisters who are dying everyday to keep this country from going to hell.

Originally posted by thedigirati
you don't have to respect the individual, but the Uniform.

Exactly. Respect the purpose, not what jackass might be in the uniform.
Same goes for firefighters and police, respect their job and positions, even though some of them might be horrible people. That goes for anyone in any profession. It just how things are, there are sucky people out there, but that doesn't mean that their job doesn't have any value or purpose.

The law of the jungle predominantly governs the nature of human beings on this planet, for whatever reason, whether it be ancient outside interference or inherently born in man. So, what we have to do is carve out our little spot, often violently, and then protect it by whatever means necessary. As a result, I get to walk through my quiet cozy little neighborhood at night with little street lights to guide the way, stop at the convenient store, go to a movie, live in peace. (Don't get me wrong I lived in a south philly ghetto and its hellish at times). So, what men before me and around me have done is forcefully carved out this protective bubble and not a day goes by where it isn't appreciated. I think about this sometimes when I'm hating my government and all this corruption, it's like, well, it's built on blood but as a result I live pretty peacefully and civil. Still, the good that's in me senses something is wrong.

Now. Let's take a little bit of a closer look. The past is gone. Here we are in modern times and the world has been mostly civilized, westernized, and industrialized, with a few exceptions here and there. Capitalism has created a corporate dominated world, and as a result we have atrocities like Blackwater, and a defense budget of world conquest proportions, not to mention a trillion dollars for defense that is just missing and unaccounted for. That is not "patriotism" or "freedom" or the art of war, that is the art of the dollar. Heck most of my friends that enlisted did it for the signing bonus or so they could get out of a jam or a felony or drug charges. So now we have a government sending our soldiers to die while corporate elitists and war profiteers rake in the cash (war makes money!!!) Knowing all of this makes it hard for me to just kiss a mans ass based merely on the fact that he's in the military. Sure, I'll show him respect. I show every human being respect because they are a wonderful living creature. Sure, I'm proud of my cousin who is in the marines right now, and my other cousin who fought in the gulf war. I'm proud of my grandfather who fought in the Korean War, and my uncles who fought in WW2, and my best friend since 8th grade who fought in baghdad as a machine gunner in the Marines, India company. I'm proud of them for having the courage and for having the best of intentions, but ideally and philosophically I couldn't disagree more. I can relate to the OP and his statement because I see us all living in a fake, contrived reality, with a fabricated world view (like the Truman show on a larger scale) where were expected to think a certain way and follow a pre-arranged belief system. I see a statement like "respect your soldiers unquestionably" as utter rubbish. Sorry.

Originally posted by kindred
disrespect them because of that.

So disagree with the cause (that's your right) but don't disrespect the soldier please.

So all soldiers who believe in their cause should be respected. There following orders, regardless of what they do. So that makes it ok then. Does this also apply to the Nazi soldiers who slaughtered millions of jews and killed enemy prisioners of war in cold blood. There also plenty of atrocities I can mention that were carried out by Allied soldiers as well. What about Iranian republican guard or even Al-Queda. They believe in their cause and are just following orders from further up the chain of command.

Well I disagree and have absolutely no respect for these humans, if you can even call them that. Everyone has a choice, but not everyone has a sense of morality if history and recent events are anything to go by.

you are absolutle right just because that a combatant is our enemy dosent mean we dont respect them. we might nor respect what they fight for but they are people too. and its a shame when you have to end a proud life of a fellow human no matter what side of the battle field..

I am an American Soldier! There are thousands of us who are nameless and faceless and who work behind the scenes to keep and maintain the way of life we have. For every one of me there are 500 of you who ask the same questions, but we still do it. For every one of me there are 10,000 that never give us a thought, but we still do it. For every one of me there are 100 that appreciate what we do and we still do it. For every one of me there are 4 that love me and count on me for a feeling of safety and peace and for every one of me there is a child that we want to have the same freedoms we have and that is why we do it. Step outside, take a deep breath, look around and enjoy all that those who have gone before me have endured and lost so that you can ask these types of questions loudly and proudly.
From all of us past and present, You're Welcome.