How do you get hero worship out of respecting a fellow human being?

I don't bow before anyone.. soldier, president, mods of this board.. but I will respect them.. just like I do the frontdoor greeter at my local wal-mart.

The human element will always be needed. You would really want the "powers that be" defending us just with fingers on tactical nukes? Not that that isnt the case already, but it is some comfort to know that there is a human element of normal men and women out there that actually have to do the grunt work. No human element means no emotion or conscience.

If we could get away from war.. this would all be moot point. Alas, our species has not come that far yet.





[edit on 2-10-2007 by TwiTcHomatic]

I think there is a semantic misunderstanding on this thread. Respect and compassion are not the same things. While I believe that all deserve compassion, not all deserve respect. I can detest someone, but still help them in a time of need. I do not, however, have to go out of my way to bestow on someone else behavior bordering on worship if they haven't earned it.

If the cause is worth fighting, then the blood on our finger tips can be excused.

Mob bosses, hit-men, etc., are not something that I'm prepared to use in the same sentence as our soldiers. (Except for right there!)

Mafia hit-men, mob bosses, etc., are likely killing an individual for personal gain. A soldier who is out the middle of a battle ground, is not killing anyone for personal gain. They are fighting a battle that they were told to do. Culpability rests on the shoulders of those who sent them.

I know Nuremberg would say otherwise, and I agree with those findings. But I don't think that is entirely applicable here. We're discussing legitimate, honest, decent soldiers, that are performing the duties that have been set out for them.

reply to post by TwiTcHomatic

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Thank you for that response. It is a lot more reasonable that some of the others I have seen here.

OK, about the nukes, it's not like the president simply pushes a button and off they go. The order to launch goes down the chain of command just like any other order. The launch operators have the option (although it will result in a court martial) of refusing an order to launch.

reply to post by uberarcanist

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Let me give you amore reasoned response. It is easier to be a lunitic when there is some one else that pays for the straight jacket.

Don't get it?

I never wanted war, but I fought.
I never thought it was right, but I went.
I never wanted to kill, but I did.

When you're old enough to understand how this could all be true, then you'll be old enough to honor the soldier and still protest the war.

reply to post by NGC2736

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If someone disagrees with a war, don't they have the right, maybe even the obligation to stand against it and refuse to serve? Sure, they could be jailed, but is not civil disobedience among the highest of duties?

I been in the military 27 years and I don't care what you think of us hehe. Reading your post I can only come to two conclusions. One is your level of ignorance of what the military is all about is at a level that I find hard to believe, and that takes me to my second conclusion that you are just trying to troll bait the posters on ATS.

Can I ask what does baby killer or rapist have to do with the military? I also do not understand what is “the lowest form of human” this sounds just like a Geico caveman joke. I would also like you to explain what is “recruited with force”

The military does not blindly do anything and we know more than most about what is right or wrong. I can also say there is not a single military person who wants you to feel pity for them even the ones terribly injured, and don’t do it for me for my life has been exponentially better than yours.

I’m sure if you would like to compare notes with me I would bet you are a lower level of human than us military whatever that might mean.


[edit on 2-10-2007 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero

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I'm not sure if I entirely agree with you, but, damn, that was a goood post.

reply to post by uberarcanist

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You confuse honor with desire. I have been married for many years. I have seen many ladies that were desirable. But I'm still married to the same lady, because I knew what honor was.

As a military man I must say not everything is like the news we see daily around us where we only see the old "if it bleeds it reads" type stories. Do a little search on the Army Core of Engineers and you will see just the tip of the iceberg of what the military does for everyone in America and around the world.

My own story is I have directly saved 100,000s of lives across 75 plus countries and all seven continents without firing a single shot and I have directly kill zero people. I have directly saved 1000s of women from being raped or put into sex slavery without firing a single shot, and I have raped zero women. I have followed 1000s of orders and never followed a single illegal one. I been shot at and attacked with mortars as recently as last year and when I come home I do not care what anyone thinks for all I care about is to see my family. You can spit on me or shake my hand and I will be happy for in either case I know you have the freedom to do so, I have done this for Carter, Regan, Bush Sr, Clinton, and Bush Jr, and no matter what some of you might think there are people who DO fight for freedom no matter what the politics is at the moment.

reply to post by Xtrozero

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I salute you sir.

We ned mre people that work to make life better, no matter what country that life is in.

reply to post by piacenza

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Piacenza
I could say the same about you, and express the same loathing and disgust about those who won't wear the uniform of those who established this nation. Because with out a military there would be no
US of A, not even the chance of such a country as ours. I highly advise that you re-educate yourself as well as find a way to think for yourself that to parot anti liberty retoric.

Because with out American warriors, there would be no such thing, as liberty.

United We Stand, The Rest, Is Not An Option!

reply to post by piacenza

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You need to feel pity because they DO NOT KNOW all the things we know. SIMPLE AS THAT. We should still respect them because without them, we would be very easily overrun. Yes the war is UNJUSTIFIED, even still, it is NOT the troops faults. They think it is justified, they think 9/11 was osama, so you get my drift in how its not their fault? Blindly following orders is a job requirement, its for the good of everyone not to second guess orders. Not all times have been like this time!!! Not all wars were unjust like this one. Like WW2, WW1, any other war really. Do you not respect any man who died on the beaches, or anyone british in tunisia 1942? If not, you FAIL as a human being, I have pity for YOU. Now this is all just fact so suck it up.

I am joining army because it is my last resort as a job and I will not be in combat, I will be military police, bustin 45 and arresting criminals, not mistaken innocents or terrorist. So respect me as well, because I'll be keeping unauthorized off bases, or where ever else they need me other than combat. I will be greatly honored to serve this country to the best of my ability. I will do so with utter respect and will keep my mouth SHUT of all conspiracy, as true as they are. I will serve uncle sam not for just his cause, not for his secret cause, but for MY cause, for MY life, and for the things I was GIVEN as a privilege. As bad as this country has become over the last 20 years, I owe my part. Simple as that.

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

[edit on 2-10-2007 by 1337cshacker]

It also means personal agendas come into play. Emotion and conscience arent necessarily good things to be involved in something as big as the decision to use Nukes.

I think there should be a computer program where all losses are factored in and once the computer decides destruction is imminent, the option is then unlocked and available for use by the President. A further security measure could include picking a member of the public (of course, without anyties to anyone or anything involved with the government) who must also agree to the use of WMDs, in essence a three man rule instead of the existing two man.




Of course they can do this, but this well only delay launch by about 8 seconds while someone else gets comfortable in the seat.

CT

for those who are saying we(soldiers, airmen, and sailors) are blindly following orders, because that is our job, you guys are wrong.

we are required to make our own decisions about how right or wrong it is, and pay the consequence later....if you are in the right, there will be no trouble...if you are wrong you will serve your punishment...

people who say..."i was ordered to kill the room full of unarmed civillians" are just trying to get away with the crime without punishment.....9 times out of ten alls that statement will do is get you one less year, and your supervisors in trouble....

i find it a nice thing, when someone comes up to me and says, "thank you" i dont ask for it....and most of the time my day will go on as normal...however....like any other person....if someone comes up to me...and spits on me....or begins calling me a killer or other names for no reason....i'll get the urge to punch them in a face....I've only held a gun during small arms training....which happens once every 30 months

You ask 'Why Respect?'.
Brave men and women who VOLUNTEERED. Many left loved ones behind to do the duty that were ordered by their superiors. Do you think our forces want to be at war? They risk being killed by an enemy which is difficult to distinguish. The enemy in this war dresses as civilians, and hides in crowds of said civilians.

It is because of our soldiers that I can sit here and complain that all my rights are taken away on my laptop, while I have cable TV on in the background, a streaming music feed on as well, while I sip on my Starbucks Coffee of course. Yep, it really stinks living with all of the terrible things that we don't have..........
Please........
MANY soldiers have died, many were maimed to protect our, YOUR freedoms. Do you have the guts to do what they do? My guess is that no you don't.

RESPECT. You bet.

But what is it they are fighting for? It depends on where you are as to who you think is right or wrong.
Respect has to be earned, not just doled out as a matter of course. I far and above respect the conscientious objectors more than the soldiers, and yes, this is a generalisation, but sometimes one has to be generalistic.
I abhor war and violence, both physical and emotional and it is my opinion that standing up to it is much much better than employing it as a means of changing the world.
Yes, I am aware that throughout history there have been wars, and that the efforts of the soldiers have brought us to where we are today.
What I would like to know is where would we be now if there had been peaceful resolutions to conflict?
Power corrupts, and soldiers enforce the power, thus, they enforce corruption.
There is more than one way to skin a cat (not that I condone this practice!).

If the OP was not a long term member of ATS I would simply chalk this whole thread up to points trolling. Being that it clearly is not, I am appaled by some of these responces.

I have never served in the armed forces myself but have had numerous family members who did including my grandfather who was in the 101 Airborn in WWII.

The OP is entitled to his opinion and in fact my grandfather went to war to protect the very right he has to express himself on the subject. However to suggest and taint the very men and women who protect those rights we hold so dear based on the actions of a select minority is inherintly wrong. Are Italian Americans to be held responsable for the mafia? Are African Americans responsable for the actions of the Crips? No No NO NO

Its also appalling that so many would displace thier resentment and anger over political decsions to the men and women who really had no viable choice.

Also the proposal that all we need is nukes is total garbage. Nuclear weapons are good for one thing and one thing only: total annihalation. Anybody who thinks otherwise needs to put down the Clancy novel down.

And again, I come back to: what is the freedom you are fighting for, and what gives the right to 'impose' it on others, for surely, if it has to been delivered behind a gun, then it is not freedom.

Oh, I forgot, freedom to shop!


edit for speling

[edit on 3-10-2007 by AotearoaSon]

reply to post by FredT

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Well said my friend. Bravo!
Grandpa was a Screaming Eagle? Well, I guess you can guess how I feel about that!
Nice post Fred. - Thanks!