Economic Collapse / Great Depression 2.0

...w/ the housing/credit industry in absolute turmoil and stocks at an all-time high, any predictions, thoughts, links, insider info on when this thing could bust? I watched a video which just showed some Wall St predictions which end in Sept 2007 and those charts had a serious collapse in their graphs last month but the opposite is happening, why? I don't know, maybe a run-up to the collapse?

Supposedly the banks/mortgage companies still have some time to hide the fact that they're bankrupt and are bankrupting Amerika and the rest of the world.

All I wonder is when it will happen since that sort of thing could mean some dire times// / /

While the housing problem is bad, I wouldn't say that it would cripple the nation. While it could cause some corrections in the market, and the way banks do business (1980's bank crisis), I wouldn't forsee it causing the market and the whole economy to collapse. It's true stocks are inflated, but a correction is more in line than a total collapse.

Thanks for the reply Chris, I tend to disagree, have you see this Prison Planet article from today? Compares G Depression to today:

prisonplanet.com...

Also, the word "correction" is thrown around in the financial sector like it's an error regarding what's culminated. Fed Reserve is illegal and I'll vote for Ron Paul since he's for ending the lie. They can't keep printing money, diverting hedge funds and adjusting rates forever. I have to side w/ LaRouche on this one, as much as people will call him nuts, I think he's a pretty with-it economist and he foresees the "new dark age" sooner then later. / / / /

While the Fed might be illegal, and it is, most financial markets look at what it does, i.e. rate cuts, to see what they're going to do next. In all reality, the Fed could hike rates and screw the market. While Ron Paul would be vote too, I don't know if he can take down the Fed. I believe Kennedy was for that too, look what happend to him. I think what you are seeing is non-banks, such as Country Wide Financial getting screwed over in this.

the larger market will continue to 're-balance' itself...

what others foresee (and i agree) is that for the next 3 quarters,
a lot of hedge funds will collapse...that will not necessarily equate to
a big drop in the market =(DOW- S&P, etc)


way too much info + sites out there,
offering strategies & stuff to look for;
www.survivalblog.com/
is one of them.............................good luck

[edit on 3-10-2007 by St Udio]

reply to post by arktkchr


arktkchr Also, the word "correction" is thrown around in the financial sector like it's an error regarding what's culminated. Fed Reserve is illegal and I'll vote for Ron Paul since he's for ending the lie. They can't keep printing money, diverting hedge funds and adjusting rates forever. I have to side w/ LaRouche on this one, as much as people will call him nuts, I think he's a pretty with-it economist and he foresees the "new dark age" sooner then later.

What caused the Great Depression? There are as many reasons given as writers who address the subject. Can we have a re-run? Some say NO and others warn YES. Ordinary people like me - and you? - are not sufficiently prepared to deal with esoteric economic theories. But I do know everything today is vastly different than it was in the 1920s-1930s. It is neither realistic nor relevant IMO to make comparisons or draw parallels about today and things that happened 75-80 years ago. See Note 1.

The Federal Reserve System is the near perfect example of private ownership under the government's operational control. The country is divided into 12 Federal Reserve districts. Every private bank that meets the “good banking practices” standard and is part of the FDIC is a member bank. The private bankers choose the boards of the regional Reserve Banks. Private banks are assessed a small percent to run the Fed System. The Federal System is run by the Board of Governors appointed by the President and approved by the Senate.

Every night at midnight is Settlement Time for all FDIC banks. If the bank loaned out more money than it took in that day, it is short. It would have to borrow enough from the Federal Reserve System to balance the books until the next midnight. This is called an “overnight” loan. This is the per cent rate you hear the Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke announce every quarter.

As that rate rises banks tend to borrow less money to loan. As the rate falls, banks can borrow more money to loan. By changing the “overnight discount rate” the central government can control the amount of money in circulation through the Federal Reserve System. By “discount” I mean the Fed collects it’s interest UP FRONT. Say the rate is 4%. Your bank calls the Fed for $1,000,000.00. The Fed sends your bank $960,000.00 but your bank owes the Fed $1,000,000.00. Discount.

There is no other way to “run” a $12 t. economy. See Note 2.


Note 1. After World War II, the Bretton Woods system was established. It pegged the United States dollar to 1/35th of a troy ounce (888.671 milligrams) of gold (the “gold standard”). $35 an ounce. All other currencies were matched to the U.S. dollar. The U.S. promised to redeem dollars in gold to other central banks. Trade imbalances were corrected by gold reserve exchanges or by loans from the International Monetary Fund. IMF. This system collapsed when the United States government ended the convertibility of the US dollar for gold in 1971.

Note 2. Specie versus fiat. Specie relates to precious metals. Gold, silver and platinum. Fiat means government control. By law. The US government prints it on each dollar bill - or any bill - that YOU must accept it as payment for all lawful debts. Like it or not. It also is the law that you can pay your taxes with that same money. And it is also the law that ONLY the Federal Reserve can print and distribute our money. END.

[edit on 10/3/2007 by donwhite]

I've actually gone to lectures by one of the Fed guys in Dallas. Really interesting speech...anyways, to get to the point, if you're a big bank, they will not let you fail. It's as simple as that.

reply to post by ChrisJr03


ChrisJr03 I've actually gone to lectures by one of the Fed guys in Dallas. Really interesting speech...anyways, to get to the point, if you're a big bank, they will not let you fail. It's as simple as that.

That is true. Let’s face it. The big boys are going to get theirs. But that also has the good outcome that depositors in that bank are not harmed. At least up to $100,000. And you can put more in if your are married, in a joint account, 2 individual accounts and possibly 2 more accounts one acting as agent for the other and vice versa. I think you can get up to $500,000 of your money “covered” by FDIC. In any event, the FDIC has made it “unofficial” they cover ALL depositors regardless of the amount. The FDIC likes to boast that since it was created in 1933, no depositor has lost ONE PENNY in an insured bank! Note: The Federal Reserve System was created BEFORE the 16th Amendment became law in 1913 and the one does not relate to the other IMO.

QUESTION: Why do some people say the Federal Reserve System is illegal? I hear that a lot but no one ever says or explains why they think it is illegal.


Trivia Q: Did you know the “WADE” in Roe v. Wade (1973) was the same Henry Wade who was the Dallas County prosecutor when Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK (1963) and then Jack Ruby killed LHO?

[edit on 10/4/2007 by donwhite]

WHY FEDERAL RESERVE IS ILLEGAL/WOODROW WILSON QUOTE ON
RUINING AMERICA

www.fdrs.org...

UNITED STATES CENTRAL BANK: WOODROW WILSON’S TREASON

In 1913, President Woodrow Wilson signed off on the Federal Reserve Act and committed treason against his country. He allowed into existence a United States central bank that would be allowed to bully the American people into paying a fraudulent and unconstitutional income tax.

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country... Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.

"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” - Woodrow Wilson

LYNDON LAROUCHE ON THE FED RESERVE

www.schillerinstitute.org...

For example, in the case of the United States Constitution: What we do under the Federal Reserve System is totally unconstitutional. The Constitutional provision has never been repealed, and therefore, the Federal Reserve System is an outlaw; it's illegal, under Constitutional law. The provision of the U.S. Constitution is, that the only person, that can issue money is the President of the United States, through the Treasury, with the consent of Congress. That the issuance—the power to create money, of the state, becomes the basis for national banking. So, state credit is used to provide the margin of increase over private credit resources, to insure a general growth for national purposes

/ / / /

reply to post by arktkchr


I was going to reply but then after reading the first reply you seem to want to debate. It almost like your trying to bait people into a debate. I had thought you were asking a question, but seems you already have your mind made up. I already can tell that we have 2 completely diferring views on the economy and wish you a nice day instead.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
reply to post by arktkchr

 

I was going to reply but then after reading the first reply you seem to want to debate. It almost like your trying to bait people into a debate. I had thought you were asking a question, but seems you already have your mind made up. I already can tell that we have 2 completely diferring views on the economy and wish you a nice day instead.

The poster ASKED about the Fed Reserve, the (Godforbid) double-post was in response to that. I accidentally forgot to use the 'edit' feature. My apologies, should you have a comment on the topic, love to hear it, otherwise, keep your criticisms of the way someone writes/cuts/pastes to yrself. Thanks

We already know the Fed is illegal, but we are discussing in this thread why you think we are going to have an Econmic Collapse/Great Depression 2.0. We are not doing that. Most people here know the Fed is illegal, and that it is not perfect, but, almost every country has a centralized bank. Yes it creates more debt for us, but really, we as a group can do nothing to stop it. If we where to have the Fed overturned, think of what we would cause. There is not enough gold, silver, or whatever metal or whatever store of value to cover the wealth of all the people. If we went back to a gold standard, do you realize how many people would lose their wealth? It wouldn't just be the top people, it'd be people like you and me, and chances are, you don't want to lose your house/appartment and any of the conviences you have now. If you took down the Fed, you'd cause a worldwide depression and then war would errupt to fix it. Chances are, after the war that would insue, we'd have the same system in place or something like it. So the Fed is illegal, but the system works pretty well. Income tax is illegal too but I bet you pay it just like everyone else.

Right now the banks aren't loaning people money to buy houses, it lenders like Country Wide. Country Wide has taken a huge hit and many of the other lenders went under or are going under. What bank is in trouble? Please I'd like to know because I haven't heard of any. Like DonWhite said, even if you have more than 100K in the bank and it goes under, chances are you will get all of it back or almost as much. I believe it is something like 90 cents to the dollar. Yes you would lose some but not all. Credit is a system that isn't going away no matter how much you want it too. Just think of it as an IOU that you pay with money. It would be no different if I owed you eggs because you gave me bread.

You have to take into considerations on stocks and the market how the Fed works, job markets, and company earnings. So if the Fed cuts rates stocks would jump up, which is why stocks have jumped back up. Today stocks went up again. Why? Because job data will be released soon and investors are anticipating it will be good news which will further increase stocks. The market is probably not going to go down, and if it does, it will not collapse. It would take many, many events to make the market crash. If I thought the market was going to crash, I wouldn't of just invested $1000 into the market. The market goes up, and it goes down, if I didn't want to take that risk, I wouldn't invest. Investing is like anything else, it has risk, and if you aren't willing to take the risk, be it some collapse or otherwise, you don't need to be in the market.

reply to post by arktkchr


arktkchr In 1913, President Woodrow Wilson signed off on the Federal Reserve Act and committed treason against his country. He allowed into existence a United States central bank that would be allowed to bully the American people into paying a fraudulent and unconstitutional income tax.

1) Treason. US Con. Article 3, Section 3. “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.” I think “treason” is a bit overstated.

2) Pres. Wilson worked hard to get Congress to pass the Federal Reserve Act. Several Republicans were involved in writing the Act. To get enough votes from the mid-west, he consented to appoint William Jennings Bryan as Secretary of State. Rather than an act of treason, this appears to have been bi-partisan.

3) AND I really don’t see any connection to the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act. We pay taxes directly to the Internal Revenue Service, not to banks.

arktkchr Quote: “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country... Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.

"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” - Woodrow Wilson

B-O-G-U-S! It is completely inconsistent that Pres. Wilson would work very hard to get the Fed Reserve Act passed by Congress; that he would appoint a man to be secretary of state in exchange for the man working to get his own adherents to vote for the Act; then he turn around and say what is attributed to him above. Wilson was president until March 4, 1921, after serving 2 terms. 1913-1921. Phony quotes. (NOT You, Mr A, but your source).

arktkchr For example, in the case of the United States Constitution: What we do under the Federal Reserve System is totally unconstitutional. The Constitutional provision has never been repealed, and therefore, the Federal Reserve System is an outlaw; it's illegal, under Constitutional law. The provision of the U.S. Constitution is, that the only person, that can issue money is the President of the United States, through the Treasury, with the consent of Congress. That the issuance—the power to create money, of the state, becomes the basis for national banking.

Here follow exerts found in the US Constitution:
Article 1, Section 8. Clause 1. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Clause 2. To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
Clause 5. To coin money, regulate the value thereof . .
Clause 6. To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
Clause 12. To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
Clause 18. To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Section 9. Clause 7. No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law;
Section 10. Clause 1. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts;

I do not find any references to the president issuing money here.

In 1910, Congress created the National Monetary Commission to draft a plan for reform of the nation’s banking system. Senate Republican leader and financial expert Senator Nelson Aldrich was head of the Commission. Populist politicians charged that Aldrich was biased due to his close ties to wealthy bankers such as JP Morgan and his daughter's marriage to John D. Rockefeller, Jr. Nevertheless, Aldrich and a small number of bank executives met in secret at Jekyll Island, GA, where they reached agreement on a plan that ultimately became the Federal Reserve Act.

It took all the political influence of a newly elected Democratic President Woodrow Wilson, along with a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress, to get Republican Senator Aldrich’s plan passed as the Federal Reserve Act in 1913. Wilson’s support was gained when the plan was amended to have a board of governors and its chairman appointed by the president and approved by the Senate.

Federal Reserve notes were created as part of the legislation, to provide a supply of currency. Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act in late 1913 on a mostly partisan basis, with most Democrats in support and most Republicans against it.

The 16th Amendment is short and sweet: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

It was introduced to the states on July 12, 1909. It was declared approved on Feb 25, 1913.

TRIVIA? Seigniorage. It costs the Mint less than five cents for each 25-cent piece it produces [the 50 states quarter series.] The government made a profit whenever someone "bought" a coin and chose not to spend it. The U.S. Treasury estimates that it has earned about $5 billion in seigniorage revenue from the quarters so far.

[edit on 10/4/2007 by donwhite]

All I can say is BUY GOLD, and buy it NOW. When I get my 20g from army bonus, I will spend easily 5 or 6 on gold alone. Might throw 1 or 2 in silver. These investments are better than college, since gold has risen 158% since 01. Gold has never really fallen in price, maybe went flatline, but not fallen. This is good protection to have some gold, and I don't mean liquidly, I mean in a fireproof safe in your closet double chained to a steel beam in your house (I love my dad).

As far as market crash, ya. A 'Big Crash' is coming. Perhaps this is a calm before the storm.

As much as I hate what the unabomber did, his manifesto is brilliant, how technology and market crashes lead to destruction of humanity. Sad he had to kill a few people to get attention, its what he felt he had to do. If people would have paid his manifesto attention when he submitted it to multiple places, those people would be alive, and his great mind could have been of use. Best definition of a tragedy yet.

www.thecourier.com...

Originally posted by 1337cshacker
All I can say is BUY GOLD, and buy it NOW. When I get my 20g from army bonus, I will spend easily 5 or 6 on gold alone. Might throw 1 or 2 in silver. These investments are better than college, since gold has risen 158% since 01. Gold has never really fallen in price, maybe went flatline, but not fallen. This is good protection to have some gold, and I don't mean liquidly, I mean in a fireproof safe in your closet double chained to a steel beam in your house (I love my dad).

As far as market crash, ya. A 'Big Crash' is coming. Perhaps this is a calm before the storm.

As much as I hate what the unabomber did, his manifesto is brilliant, how technology and market crashes lead to destruction of humanity. Sad he had to kill a few people to get attention, its what he felt he had to do. If people would have paid his manifesto attention when he submitted it to multiple places, those people would be alive, and his great mind could have been of use. Best definition of a tragedy yet.

www.thecourier.com...

Totally w/ you on these points.... I also heard to buy silver but only silver that is pre-a-certain year, which year? I forget but I know it has to be pre-some year since that is the highest percentage silver, in the US coins at least / /

Found this www.newswithviews.com... article about the economy, titled, "Why Congress won't do anything to stop the coming financial disaster." Pretty *interesting* read and mentions deficit/savings rate which we haven't really discussed yet
/

reply to post by arktkchr


If yo refer to my thread, www.abovetopsecret.com...
you will see what will lead to this. Just like the first depresion, just now with guns and crime everywhere.

That aforementioned thread seems to mainly pertain to Mrs Clinton as President, whereas this seems more along the lines of economic-based/predicting a collapse

To play the devil's advocate, gold and silver only has value if someone else thinks it does. Let us say that our money is worthless, gone, whatever. Ok so we basically go back to a barter system. You will only be able to trade gold or silver to people to make jewlery and such if that happend. I'm not saying gold doesn't have value, it does, but if no one needs it, is it really valuable?