'Chorlton' spooks and the NSA

I think Chorlton will be surprised by this response.
'specially if anyone reads a back log of our exchanges. While I whole heartedly disagree with some of his views; I DO NOT see the point in taking it this far.

I hate to say it, cuz it might piss off the MODs but the OP is a point whore plain and simple. and they should be banned for this underhanded attack on Chorlton.



p.s. Sooooo Chorlton whats the likelyhood of some of us owning your records???


*I love rock! =P*

I used to love Chorlton and the Wheelies, that Fanella the witch was quite a baddy, not to mention those spikey things she had....

Still not as juvenile as this thread. Is Google the new equivilant of "I looked baboon up in the dictionary and there was a picture of you"

*wishes he had bum flashing emotes to use*

So lets throw-out every abductee account without the implant in a bag to show you?



Ok.. So let me get this straight, if you have an experience, and don't have conclusive proof don't bring it forth? Let me ask again, what proof here has anyone given of extraterrestrials?

So I guess all these people claiming abductions should keep silent and never tell anyone cause they don't have proof. Sorry but I would like to hear these accounts, and could care less if they can provide proof, because I can understand that certain things are hard if not impossible to attain. Just because someone doesn't have proof doesn't mean it didnt happen. All this information would never be known without these people comming forth.. It might be a lie, but it could be more insight and shouldn't be ignored. Atleast hear it then make up your mind.

My mother has seen a ghost, and my grandfather saw a UFO fly into a mountain. Neither of them have proof of the event so I guess according to science, they must be either lying to me, hallucinating, or saw swamp gas?


Assumptions.., why would I care what he thinks? I don't even try to convince family members of the things I've learned.. I believe people have to find out on there own. I don't base my beliefs on individual evidence or accounts, but the overall picture, which isn't fully painted, not even a quarter complete. After 15 years of research, I still don't know. I think the more you know, the more you understand that we don't know.


It was a hypothetical statement, not to assume everyone belives in aliens. It was meant as a senerio. A senerio which in my view would never happen. As a guy on Coast to Coast said, "if aliens are looking for intelligent life, they wouldn't land on the white house lawn, because there's no intelligent life there."


Why would I want to read that? I have him on ignore for a purpose. I read enough about Chinese lanterns. That might be painting with a broad brush, forgive me. I don't hate him nor do I even know him, but the comments I did read, I felt were crass, smart-arse remarks. I don't need the negativity. Who knows, if I met him in real life, I might actually like him.


Think about the age of the universe. Now think about the age of mankind. Doesn't really compare. What I'm trying to say is that we tend to walk around with our noses up in the air, thinking we have everything figured out. It relates to something close to me, called free energy. Now, here you have mainstream scientists saying this isn't possible because it goes against the law of thermodynamics. Ask yourself this, are you gonna let people tell you what is and isn't possible? Do you think science can explain everything? Lets take ghosts as an example. There's people who believe, people who haven't made their mind up, and people who are sure it doesn't exist. One main reason is we have no proof. Science can't explain this at this time, and therfore it doesn't exist, such as UFOs(alien craft). Does the fact science can't explain how a free energy device could work mean that free energy is not attainable? Its up to you and only you to decide, not science, not religion, not anyone else. Whats needed is change. How long did people scoff at the idea that we revolved the sun, and not the other way around. It went against science, it went against religion, it basically went against what we "know".

[edit on 3-10-2007 by Freezer]

Then, you 'feel' wrong sir

'Everything' ? If I thought that everything was fake, hoaxed or misinterpreted, then I would post on every thread. yes?
That I dont, says a lot.
Sometimes its necessary to see what someone doesnt do, rather than what they do, do. You can learn a lot from that.

Then dont !. I dont force anyone to read my posts, Click the ignore button and my posts dissapear. But you wont, though, will you?

Debunkers or Sceptics?. I am not a debunker and AFAIK havent debunked anything on ATS. I am sceptical yep, very much so. But without a debunker or sceptic what do you have?? Dogma thats what.
Sceptics and Debunkers make the Conspiracy theorists, think about what they post (though its obvous some dont) and without them you have nothing but Dogma, the same old line. "Look I said it so it must be true"

But without proof or believable evidence all you have, is rumour, hearsay, speculation.
Heres something then. "I have a little goblin at the bottom of my garden that I talk to every night" Would you believe that, without evidence? No.
So why do you believe someone who says "Ive just seen and talked to a reptilian" without evidence?, because thats what you are saying.

Thanks. Myself and other have been saying that for ages

:

Debunkers and sceptics give a viewpoint from a different angle. Remember when you looked up at a cloud in the sky and you said you saw a face? then someone 6 foot away says he doesnt see a face he sees a horse? There you go. Its a different perspective, thats all.
:
It seems to me its the CT's and posters of fuzzy pictures that seem to think they have everything 'figured out' (Curious term that)
:

And like children, sometimes we need to be scolded and told we are wrong. If you cant accept that, what are you doing here?

Oh Ive got a broad back and posts like this roll off it like water off a ducks back. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (no matter how wrong it is!)
He mistook me for someone else.
Hey he could have mistaken a cloud for a UFO!




Depends on how sad you are. But to answer your question, quite likely, especially if youre in the UK or OZ.
But I did a lot of studio BV work in the 70's for a lot of Artists so youve probably heard me doing "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH's" and "DOOOOOOWOP" somewhere sometime.
It pays the mortgage though.

reply to post by Freezer

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You posted to Lex:
"I believe people have to find out on there own. I don't base my beliefs on individual evidence or accounts, but the overall picture, which isn't fully painted, not even a quarter complete. "

Indeed very true, but you seem to be willing to accept what you think is right without considering the possiblity of other alternatives. Thats what sceptics like myself try to do, to make people question things that are put up as being 'evidence'

"After 15 years of research, I still don't know. I think the more you know, the more you understand that we don't know"

And after 40 odd years of research I agree with you. However, I would say, conversely, the more you know, the more you begin questioning that which you dont know.

I have taken you off ignore, so we can talk and clarify statements.

I was perhaps wrong that you are a debunker, and can see you have labelled yourself a skeptic.



That would be quite a task here at ATS.



Never saw a face in clouds, but I understand what you are saying, but when hundreds of people see the same cloud all around the world for hundreds of years I start to take notice. When credible military witnesses come forth describing that same thing I take notice. When 1000's of abductees descibe the same events and order, I take notice. When I see the famous debunker J. Allen Hynek explain away UFO's for the military, only later to head up CUFOS(Center For UFO Studies), I take notice. I could go on for a lifetime, and you saying that you researched this for 40 years and found nothing, is a joke to me. I have no problem with skeptics, its the ridicule these people face that bothers me. There's other ways to tell someone they could be mistaken, without insulting them in the process.



There are those who are quick to label things as alien space craft, and alike. Yes they could be mistaken. You didn't see me do that did you?




Thats the attitude I'm talking about.



Not quite. Only problem with that is, millions of other people aren't saying what you said.. There's a difference and I think you know that. Not to mention hundreds of other aspects that tie into or are related to UFO/ alien presence. Its not black and white, there's hundreds of shades of gray in between. I don't know if Reptilians are real, but I'm willing to listen and understand what other say about them.


Doesn't matter how long you research, without an open-mind you won't learn anything.



Ill quote myself from this thread -
"After 15 years of research, I still don't know. I think the more you know, the more you understand that we don't know"



And you are the authority right?

There are many things they may have been. Us 'skeptics' simply act to balance those who immediately draw a conclusion based on prior belief rather than evidence. So, for example, we'd dispute claims that the 'ghost' is proof of an afterlife or that the 'UFO' is proof of alien visitations. The observations do not allow such conclusions to be drawn.

We also tend towards eliminating natural explanations before invoking supernatural ones. And are well aware that there are many natural phenomena which are poorly understood by science.

You don't have to work as an unpaid undercover agent for the NSA to know that

However, I will assume anyone who tries to deny that my grandmother was a 12,000 year old shapeshifting nazi superspy from Epsilon Eridani who invented sliced bread is a covert agent for the NWO. Well, stands to reason, dunnit

I can agree with that.

Certain details my grandpa explained to me, or rather my mom, aunt, and grandma told me relate to what other have described in the characteristics of UFOs. For example, I didn't understand how a craft could just fly into a mountain without being destroyed, and thought perhaps he could've of seen ball lightning. He was sure it was a craft, and he actually flew aircraft in the military. Later in my studies of UFOs I found why this was.

Again I have no problem with skeptics, I just dislike skeptics who tend not to even consider the possibility that there actually could be an alien presence, and ridicule those who don't feel the same, and label them as some crazy person who's uneducated.

I can see why people jump on others statements claiming proof and such, without actual proof. It just makes people even more skeptical of the subject all together.

I am sceptical, does that label me as a sceptic??maybe



But you see my point? There are many threads that are close to my heart but I wont post on them because of doubts I have.

But many people are like sheep, they will say things to go along with the crowd. Take the Bible for instance. So many many people believe its all true without a shredof evidence. Maybe its their parents who drill it into them but for others its simply going with the others so not to seem out of place.

But 'credible military witnesses' are human like everyone else and are prone to the same mistakes and misinterpretations that everyone else is.


I never, ever, said I researched for 40 years and found nothing. I found many things unexplainable, mysterious, curious and weird, but I never said nothing. Because of my musical background I was able to visit an awfull lot of countries and whilst in those countries was also able to pop across to others to take a peek. When I say I researched for 40 years I dont mean it was the only thing I did. It just means that for 40 years I have always looked for anything curious or out of the ordinary and have paid particular attention to other things.
Lets take the "Stratford sightings" and Chines Lantern things. Do you honestly think I would have continued posting about them when I was getting abused, insulted and attacked if I didnt know what I was talking about? Ive seen chinese lanterns do things that defy all logic. But that doesnt make them UFO's, just makes them weird.



Sorry thats called humour

And in respect of Reptilians I'm not prepared to listen to anyone. Sorry.
There are many reasons that life sized, upright standing bipedal reptilians are impossible.


Doesn't matter how long you research, without an open-mind you won't learn anything.

In defence of my fellow Brit.....

You guys have to understand something. Its a popular misconception among a whole load of posters that the UK is like the USA and that because we speak the same language we all see things the same way.

Thats simply not true.

There are certain ways of speaking/phraseology and experiences that are uniquely British, which may appear to be awkward or argumentative to some posters when in fact they may represent a gentle ribbing, a touch of sarcasm or just a general slab of mischief.

Us Brits just do things differently, thats all.

I'm just glad I don't share his "chinese lantern" fetish

So, British yes, disinfo agent, no.

As for me, make up your own minds.

Take Corso for example. A reputable fellow, with a verifiable background, who says he saw the bodies up close. How could he mistake something like that? He said he also handled parts of the wreckage and other devices such as the headgear, which he believed was used to control the craft. Interesting how David Adair said the same thing, that the pilot had a symbiotic relationship with the craft, and was controlled through brainwaves.

Another example - The Roswell Incident
Are we supposed to believe that Marcell mistook a balloon for an alien space craft? I bet a monkey could tell the difference. Are we supposed to believe the 509th bomber group mistook crash dummies for alien lifeforms? Were talking about a man-made object vs a life-form.

Are all the credible people part of the discloser project all mistaken?

How many people saying the same exact same thing does it take? Do you really think this is just a trend?

What do you make of the 9 implants Dr. Roger Lear has had examined by some of the top metallurgists, and determined them to be extraterrestrial? Did each of those nine people get hit with meteorites and not know it?



I agree, however I believe nature is the one true teacher. As far as absolute knowledge, I doubt that could be achieved within a 1000 lifetimes.

[edit on 3-10-2007 by Freezer]

If you're ever in Malaysia give me a buzz. I'll show you how to make a Chinese lantern in under 20 minutes with nothing but palm frond spines, newspaper, a tuna can and a lump of wax. Then I'll teach you how to read the clouds so you can release it at the right time to perform logic defying manoeuvres.

That is the worst excuse I've ever heard from Chorlton yet. You can not possibly mistake an alien body for something else. If you see a solid craft in the sky making unbelievable maneuvers, it's obviously a craft. Either Chorlton has some kind of agenda to debunk everything, or he is in complete denial.

reply to post by Beachcoma

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Malaysia is a place I will never ever enter again.

Apart from which I spent quite a few years in the Far East myself and can probably make Chinese lanterns with the best of them.
My wife is Thai and there are nutters in her home village that make them and let them off all the time.

I lived in Kota Bahru for a while but left when the Muslims started to make life a bit difficult. Shame as the fishing and skin diving was quite good!

The point many of us skeptics try to make is.....its not obviously an alien craft. Wishing it was doesn't make it so. It could be some incredibly advanced human craft....or even some bizarre natural occurrence. We, the skeptics, aren't driven to automatically assign an identity based on what we want.

Well, when I see my first alien body Ill let you know. But, as far as I know. no one else has seen a real alien body/
Have you?



1) How do you know its solid?
2) Please point me to the sentence where I said it wasnt a craft.

I believe there are lots of UFO's flying around. However, I believe that they are all built by humans and not extra terrestrials.
Thats the difference.

Chorlton, what well known groups were you in? I'm intensely curious about it. Come on fella, spill the beans

I never suggested that they're alien craft, but it's a possibility. Chorlton implies that these credible people are making "mistakes" as to what they saw. If they saw a solid object which resembled a craft, then what is it? How can you possibly misinterpret it? This doesn't mean they're alien craft at all, but there is definitely something we don't know about, whether it be top secret military craft, extraterrestrial craft, or something else.

Oh man you went to the wrong side of Malaysia. The people on the East Coast are nuts! I mean come on, they voted for a government that might as well be Taliban. PAS is crap, they're overzealous whack-jobs who'd rather focus on little petty things rather than making the state education and economy go up.

[edit on 3-10-2007 by Beachcoma]