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I know how the US failed to control Illegal Immigration.

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posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 03:36 AM
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You see there is a misconception about illegal immigrants and how they crossed over. Not everyone jumps the fence. I would say, from my experience that only about 10% of the illegal immigrants jump over and run the deserts. the other 90% crosses the border legally..as visitors.


I am speaking only for the Mexican border in this case. Many of the VISITORS that enter the US have a visa, passport or whatever other document it may be. When the VISITORS cross the border, they are supposed to enter the US, then go shopping or do what they have to do and then go back into Mexico within 48 hours.

This is where the system fails. they check-in, but never check-out. Most apparent visitors stay here and have entered the US legally, thru the inspection point. they are checked, inspected and allowed to enter the US legally as official Visitors.

Solution- Check in the visitors, but make sure that at the end of the day, they check out as they return to mexico. how do we do this? give them a special access card, to swipe as they enter and to swipe as they exit the US. this is very simple and can be done without any problems.

it's good to have visitors here from other countries, but make sure they check out.

This is a basic principle and it's a very easy program to follow. and because of this basic failure, we have this problem. it can be fixed tomorrow.


Discuss.


[edit on 1-10-2007 by jedimiller]



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 11:29 PM
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I don't belive that the answer to the this problem is to create more goverment agencies to deal with this mess, i don't see how what you are proposeong would do anything.

Lets take what you say at heart, that we must force those that come here as visitors to go back after they have done what they said they were going to do when they came here. Hoe do you suppose that we do that? Are we going to put GPS tracking devices on them? Or Mabye just have police escorts go around with them?

And not to argue too much with your statistics, but theres not many walls for them to jump over.



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 09:12 AM
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posted by jedimiller
There is a misconception about illegal immigrants and how they crossed over. I would say that only about 10% of the illegal immigrants jump over and run the deserts. The other 90% crosses the border legally..as visitors. When the VISITOR crosses the border, they are supposed to enter the US, then go shopping or do what they have to do and then go back into Mexico within 48 hours. This is where the system fails. they check-in, but never check-out. Most apparent visitors stay here and have entered the US legally, thru the inspection point. they are checked, inspected and allowed to enter the US legally as official Visitors.


J/M, we never hear anyone give us the statistics you have reported. Your numbers make good sense. When “they” speak of 400,000 “illegal entries” per year, it makes you wonder. If you are like me and thought all those people were wading the Rio Grande it seems impossible. Thanks for opening up my eyes on this topic.


Solution - Check in the visitors, but make sure that at the end of the day, they check out as they return to Mexico. How do we do this? Give them a Special Access Card, to swipe as they enter and to swipe as they exit. This is very simple and can be done without any problems. This is a basic principle and it's a very easy program to follow. Because of this basic failure, we have this problem. it can be fixed tomorrow. Discuss.


Sorry, Mr J/M, but you have “proved” the Special Access Card won’t work! I’ll take your numbers. 90% of 12 million is about 10,800,000 people. These are people who have overstayed their “welcome.” Yes, we would know their names and home addresses, but not where they were working here.

That’s because for every ONE undocumented Mexican worker there is ONE undocumented American EMPLOYER. We have a better chance of catching the American than the Mexican, but WE DON’T want to CATCH the AMERICAN!

He is a rich Republican! A Bush43 fan. Hey, poor people do not hire illegal workers. That, like bribery, is a rich man’s crime.

I keep citing the Swift and Company incident earlier this year. 5,000 workers in 5 plants. 1,500 were found to be UNDOCUMENTED. That is far too many for an honest employer to have made a “mistake.” That "hiring policy" was intentional. 1) It keeps American wages LOW and profits HIGH. 2) It keeps union sentiment DOWN.

The farcical story the ICE offered - hunting for stolen social security identities - was patently FALSE. The 70 cases found had bought the stolen IDs from local American thieves. They were "victims" too. The raid was a JAB at their workers most likely requested by Swift & Co. It was a warning to the 1,500 Mexican workers and a UNION BUSTING tactic ordered by Swift and Co and fully supported by the US Government! Bravo Bush43! You DO love America!

Not one Swift & Co. supervisor, HR manager, board of directors or top level management has been looked at. As if it was an “accident” that 30% of their employees were undocumented workers!

[edit on 10/2/2007 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by TKainZero
 


TKainZero I don't believe that the answer to the this problem is to create more government agencies to deal with this mess, I don't see how what you are proposing would do anything. Lets take what you say at heart, that we must force those that come here as visitors to go back after they have done what they said they were going to do when they came here. How do you suppose that we do that? Are we going to put GPS tracking devices on them? Or Maybe just have police escorts go around with them? And not to argue too much with your statistics, but there’s not many walls for them to jump over.

Yes, Mr T/K/Z, you have proved it is an insurmountable problem. How to stop purposeful overstaying visitor visas. I was not aware of the 48 hours visa. I suppose commercial interests at the legal crossing points prevent the reduction or elimination of those entry methods?

I have seen numbers recently showing how the undocumented worker is really a NET contributor to our economy. We all know that whether it was premeditated or not, the illegal workers do keep wages LOW and stymie union organizers. That is old time Republican religion. Maybe that is why Bush43 could attack a peaceful country 5,000 miles away on false pretenses but cannot block illegal entry here? Maybe he really does not want to slow or stop it and has no intention of doing so?

Dems, being more “bleeding heart liberals” do not want to deny illegals either the opportunity to work here or their constitutional rights if they get caught. So a Dem administration is likely to continue LAX enforcement on the border.

[edit on 10/2/2007 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 


Illegal immigrants. Where do you start? A lot of Mexican-Americans want to start in 1846. Mid-19th century Americans not only believed the dubious doctrine of Manifest Destiny but they practiced it with gusto! The War of 1846-1848 was of doubtful legitimacy. The boundary dispute certainly offered the occasion to reach an accommodation with Mexico without waging war. But Americans preferred war. And with war, the acquisition of more Mexican territory! We were about to see the largest land grab in our own land-grabbing history!

American emigrants into Mexico’s northeastern territory - Texas - soon wanted to be free of Mexican governance from a far off capital, Mexico City - over 700 miles from San Antonio. More bothersome was government by a laid back Spanish Catholic culture imposing their values on an unlettered, uncouth, ambitious and eager people of The Book Protestants. By a military fluke, the Texicans as they were called then, won their independence at the serendipitous Battle of San Jacinto in 1836. A place now in Harris County with Houston as the county seat.

After an acrimonious legislative struggle in Washington, Texas was admitted into the Union as the 28th state in the last days of 1845. War with Mexico was now almost a certainty. In the 1819 treaty with Spain ending their claims on Florida, the US gave up its claims on the province known then as Texas. When we annexed Texas in 1845 as a state, it was in defiance of international law in violation of our own prior agreement. Texicans claimed the Mexican border ran along the Rio Grande River. Gen. Santa Ana consented to that southern border at San Jacinto in exchange for his life. A calmer and less intimidated Mexico City argued correctly the traditional border was the Nueces River, about 75 to 100 miles north of the Rio Grande.

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo ratified in 1848 ended the dispute over which river would divide the US and Mexico. The Rio Grande was the new boundary. The US also got - or took - California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and part of Colorado. Finally, chicanery was afoot. The treaty as negotiated and signed by the negotiators contained 10 Articles. The 10th article guaranteed recognition of Spanish and Mexican land grants made prior to 1846. When the Treaty made it to Washington and was debated in the US Senate, Article X was missing!

The coup d'grace was found in Article VIII, a 2-sided coin. On our side - we “granted” - forced - citizenship on any Mexican national remaining for 1 year in the territory. On the other side, we TERMINATED the Mexican's birthright citizenship and took away their rights after 1 year, on our terms.

In all too many instances, white Americans forced Mexicans off their property then when the Mexicans went to court to recover their land, while judges and white juries always found for the white Americans. Under “color of law” much of the property owned by Mexicans was “stolen” from them. Between Article VIII and the missing Article X, we had taken about 550,000 square miles - not counting Texas - from Mexico. We did pay Mexico $15 million in compensation. But not a dime to the former owners!

Until World War 2, people crossed back and forth across the entire 3,141 km (1,947 miles) US Mexico boundary at will. Many relatives lived in the US and would go south for celebratory occasions. Weddings. Birthdays. Christenings. Graduations. The same was true of people in Mexico going north to do similar things. Family reunions. And just plain visiting. Extended families still exist in the Mexican-American culture. Something we Euro types have lost long ago.

In World War 2, because of the labor shortage, Mexicans were permitted to come here and stay “for the duration.” As long as we needed them. At the end of the war, 13 million men were released from the Armed Forces in less than 6 months. Millions of jobs were terminated when 95% of war contracts were cancelled before the end of 1946. Women who had worked for the first time in their lives did not want to stop work and go back to the former days of mother and housewife chores. A new day had been born and it took us a generation to realize it. Old ways die hard.

In 1946, we asked the Mexicans to go back home. If we need you, we’ll call. And thus began by chance and not by plan, a policy that was NO policy. And here we are today, with 12 million people living here who did not ask permission to come. More than the population of Ohio. Nearly the population of Pennsylvania. But scattered into all 50 states. I estimate half are in the border states plus Florida. I estimate the other half are to be found in the remaining states but their numbers are most likely in inverse proportion to the distance to the border. The further away, the fewer you’ll find.

The issue now for us is how to LEGALLY integrate those 12 million people into our society. Not all want to be citizens. ALL do want to be here legally. It is to our distinct ADVANTAGE they be legal. It is to our distinct DISADVANTAGE they not be legal. There are too many of them for us to be punitive. It is silly to talk of $5,000 fines. It is even more silly to ask them to LEAVE the country and get on a waiting list for a visa back. No matter how much anyone hates the word AMNESTY that is the only word we have open to us.

Vive la Mexico! Long Live America!


Foot Note. Several movements have begun to urge justice for descendants of those people. One is “Chicanismo” a cultural movement begun in the 1930s in the Southwestern United States by Mexican Americans to recapture their Mexican, Native American culture.

[edit on 10/2/2007 by donwhite]




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