question for conservatives

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Why dont you come up with an argument otherwise?
Whats so "immoral" about success?

well... you know, it's kind of hard to be successful when you starve to death before you pass infancy...
it's not exactly a level playing field
honestly, i think capitalism might be a bit more Utopian than communism for the simple fact that it assumes a level playing field.

That immoral bastard Bill Gate working his ass off in his garage soldering day and night and writing code in his sleep. What a bastard he is.

damn that horrid distortion!
you should realize that he was born into privilege..

Damn those pharmaceutical companies for increasing the survivability of cancers and disease beyond anyones expectations.

no, damn them for gouging people on prices...

How about you beloved "education and literacy"? Damn those universities and their multi-billion dollar endowments and millionaire administration! Damn them to hell!

yeah, damn them for wasting insane amounts of money on sports when they could spend it on a crazy thing like education...

and what about the uneducated majority? it seems like you're supporting the great privilege of the well off minority population of the world here.

What's with your education and literacy infatuation anyway? Like a learned man never lead a genocidal campaign? Like the literate don't still pray to an invisible god or believe the only way to cure AIDS is to rape a virgin?

if a person receives a full education until the age of 16 that means they survived to the age of 16
sadly, that's a massive improvement over the current status quo
a truly educated person wouldn't believe that thing about AIDS...
educated people can lead themselves out of poverty and exploitation.

Literacy may not be relative, you can either read and write or you cannot, but education certainly is. Then what people chose to do with their education or how to interpret their education is a wild card unto itself.

true, but there are basics. if someone learns basic history, basic maths, basic science, basic literature etc
standards would go up. the world will be a damn better place if everyone receives a good education

It just sounds to me like you want everyone to think the way you want them to. Act the way you want them to. Interpret the world around them the way you want them to.

no, i want them to give their own ideas. i want the children of the world that will starve to death this year to be able to share THEIR ideas with the world.
i want them to have the education to properly frame their ideas and demonstrate how much better things would be if we used them

nothing good came of everyone thinking the same way, no matter how right or wrong that way is.
if we're all thinking the same way, nobody questions. if nobody questions, we don't get new ideas.

if we get a good universal standard of education we'll get the torrent of new ideas we'll need to propel our species to new heights.

That's real healthy.

as are your assumptions about me and my way of thinking

By how far derailed this thread has become from your original post,

says the one who derailed it.

only then to be altered to refer to "social conservatives," which when the change has been made makes even less sense, I can tell you have an awful lot of unorganized junk slamming into a colorful mix of fantastic ideals and conceited paranoia in your head.

conceited paranoia? demonstration of this?

Separate it out with quotes and call it "name-calling."

calling a person a "troll" and an "NWO shill"
...hmm
that's attacking a person
ad hom
name-calling.
hmmm, wait, why did i say ad hom?
oh yes, because that's the name given to the LOGICAL FALLACY.

Like I don't know that's what I'm doing?

then you should stop it. it's a logical fallacy and very rude of you. it actually reflects poorly on yourself, especially for someone so far up on their highhorse.

How far back? Which previous system do you imagine "social conservatives" want to return to?

depends on the individual. many seem to look at the standard nuclear family 50s as their ideal.

Liberals brought about kings and landowners is that it?

yeah, from a worse system

So feudalism is your fault?

you're blurring the issue. the IMPROVEMENT was the product of liberalism, the further improvement from feudalism was the product of liberalism
etc
and so on
progress doesn't come from being a conservative.

Or do you just want to back to the 20's or 30's America? Were the conservatives trying to ban the wheel before it led to an increase in cave-teen pregnancies?

wow, i didn't know someone could come up with such ridiculous straw men.

Which came first? The conservative or the liberal?

ok, that's it, you're not interested in discussion. you're being confrontational. i was being inquisitive.
you're name calling, without apology...
it's called civil discourse..
hmm, i guess that stereotype i so thought of as reserved only to extreme cases of "conservatives" really can apply to individuals within other pockets of it as well.

Lets make a handy list of each thing each one can be blamed for for the past 30,000 years or so so you can point on a time-line to which system it is exactly you expect Bob Dole to take us back to.

first, as i reach the end of your statements...PARAGRAPHING, seriously.

anyway, you're being ridiculous.

you're admittedly not the person i'm directing the question at, you're calling me names for no reason, and you're generally being a stereotype of the loud mouth conservative who gets all angry when someone does even the tiniest little thing

Although they are awfully close to extinction on the US political scene there is such a thing as a progressive Conservative. In Economic terms I am a moderate Conservative but on just about every social issue expect for compulsory voting I hold Libertarian views.

Originally posted by xpert11
Although they are awfully close to extinction on the US political scene there is such a thing as a progressive Conservative. In Economic terms I am a moderate Conservative but on just about every social issue expect for compulsory voting I hold Libertarian views.

see? this is the type of answer i was looking for, not a response telling me i'm a troll.

thank you for being informative, xpert