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A contradiction in the bible

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posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


This has been explained couple of times above.
John is not his own father, son or brother...


Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
What about gravitational flux? The stories of ancient giants, and the sheer size of the large dinosaurs? There obviously has to have been gravitational flux on the whole in the planets history.


This has to do more with the oxygen in the air. It was a lot more dense back then. Also the Earth was smaller back then, so it would have a smaller gravitional force right? Think it has to do more with the oxygen.




posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid

Originally posted by Funkydung
i am a father
i am a son
i am a brother

im still one


Your not 'the' son of yourself are you?


Originally posted by Redge777

Y


well if i was a spirit that can create humans i would be able to create a body for myself to walk around in here on this planet...... i could create myself a human body and being the spirit that i am...enter in that flesh body..... so i could walk around and interact with my humankind creation....i guess i could call that body i created my son if i wanted to....

so the flesh isnt what is worshiped it is the spirit that was inside that is worshiped. if god wasnt in the flesh he would have been just another man. but this was the purpose jesus served....as a vessel for god... god entered into a human shell sorta speak and walked around with his creation. jesus absolutely was god in the flesh. god and jesus were one. the spirit of god meshed with the flesh....jesus had all of the power that god did because he was god in the flesh. he even rose from the dead just like he said he would. if he was god how did he die? the spirit left the flesh on the cross...this is why jesus said....father why did you forsake me...right before he died.....how did he come back to life?? god eased his way back into the lifeless body and as soon as he was back in...instant life.


[edit on 1-10-2007 by Funkydung]

[edit on 1-10-2007 by Funkydung]



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
Not all Chritians believe in the trinity. Many understand that it is a concept derived from Pagan religions and adopted some time after the death of the Apostles who, while alive, stood as a bullwark agianst the philosophies of men creeping into the congregation.

Jesus clearly stated that he was not equal; to the Father here;

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”





[edit on 1-10-2007 by Sparky63]


yep this was the flesh talking about the spirit that was inside of him....the spirit is greater than the flesh.



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:46 PM
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The point which screws up the whole thing. I thought no one can see god?



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by Funkydung
i am a father
i am a son
i am a brother

im still one


Are you your own father, son, and brother? the same blood runs thru all of us.



Back on topic: One of the largest debate among the Catholic Church is if Jesus is God or if he was just a vessel for God's spirit. using God's spirit from inside of him.


im definatly not catholic...but jesus was god in the flesh.




Either way, it doesn't make sense when you take into accout that Jesus prayed to God. If he is God, did he pray to himself and why? Why would God pray to himself? If he was the vessel of God, does that mean Jesus talked to himself? If so, then when his followers prayed to God, did they face Jesus?


the man jesus prayed to the spirit. they knew he was the god in flesh and understood that god the spirit could be in jesus and heaven at the same time...they prayed to god the spirit that was both inside god and in heaven...no need to face a certain direction.



There are also passages in the Bible claiming the Father is in heaven. If the Father is in heaven and Jesus is God, then who were people supposed to pray to?


the spirit of god. the creator...who was right there next to them...



If Jesus is the word, and the word has always been with God, then wouldn't that mean that Jesus existed in heaven before coming to Earth, then after leaving Earth went back to heaven? If he went back to heaven, and he is God, then wouldn't that mean that both the son and father are in heaven side by side?


yes jesus definatly existed before time existed. he just came manifested into the flesh 2000 years ago. god manifesed in the flesh.




If he merely was a product of God's spirit, and was then combined back into God's spirit when he goes back to heaven, then it would fall in line with beliefs of Brahmin, or karma (our spirits returning to the original creator and combining with his).


sorta i guess. not sure on this one....



One should also take into account that Christianity teaches that Jesus will return. If he returns, will it be in human form, through another birth, or will it be spiritual?


it says he will return the way he left....he left going up into heavens physically ..probably return coming down from the heavens physically...but he wont be an infant.

[edit on 1-10-2007 by Funkydung]

[edit on 1-10-2007 by Funkydung]



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Funkydung
the man jesus prayed to the spirit. they knew he was the god in flesh and understood that god the spirit could be in jesus and heaven at the same time...they prayed to god the spirit that was both inside god and in heaven...no need to face a certain direction.

Still doesn't explain why he prayed to himself...



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
The point which screws up the whole thing. I thought no one can see god?


they cant unless he manifests himself physically.



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by Funkydung
 


I knew a lame answer like this would appear. God is god, no matter what form he takes. Didn't it state that man can't see god? Can't find the quote...



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid

Originally posted by Funkydung
the man jesus prayed to the spirit. they knew he was the god in flesh and understood that god the spirit could be in jesus and heaven at the same time...they prayed to god the spirit that was both inside god and in heaven...no need to face a certain direction.

Still doesn't explain why he prayed to himself...


because the flesh was being obedient to the spirit. also to teach others how to pray. he prayed to teach us that as children of god, our obedient submission to the will of the Father will bring us spiritual blessing.



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
reply to post by Funkydung
 


I knew a lame answer like this would appear. God is god, no matter what form he takes. Didn't it state that man can't see god? Can't find the quote...


i said that they cant see him unless he manifests himself physically. no man has seen the spirit. jesus said, the spirit doesnt have flesh and bone. Luke 24: 39.



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by Funkydung
 


Yeh i know, but what's that quote which states man can't see god because man is too sinful?

Edit: I just had a thought, do babies go to hell? Their only sin according to you guys, not believing. Also what about those people who live in thrid world countrys who never heard of Jesus? How can they believe?

[edit on 1-10-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Oct, 1 2007 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Funkydung


yep this was the flesh talking about the spirit that was inside of him....the spirit is greater than the flesh.


This is the most common response from trinitarians. They claim that any statements made by Jesus, that indicates the superior position of the Father must be true only because he was still in the flesh, that is, not ascended yet.

Pehaps you should consider what was said of his relationship with the God after he ascended.

This was from 1 Crointhians 11:3


I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.”


Revised Standard Version.

Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. So the truth here stated applies to the relationship between God and Christ in heaven.

Or This one; also years after he ascended.

1 Cor 15:27-28 Revised Standard


“‘God has put all things in subjection under his [Jesus’] feet.’ But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection under him,’ it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.”


Both of these verses indicate Jesus subserviant role in relation to his Father, God the Almighty. And again, both after his asscension.

The role of Father & Son is well defined. Jesus in his exalted heavenly position after his resurrection is still not equal to the Father.

Another interesting point: The Hebrew word Shad·dai′ and the Greek word Pan·to·kra′tor are both translated “Almighty.” Both original-language words are repeatedly applied to the Father. (Ex. 6:3; Rev. 19:6) Neither expression is ever applied to either the Son or the holy spirit.

Consider too


1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”

Repeatedly, even following Jesus’ ascension to heaven, the Scriptures refer to the Father as “the God” of Jesus Christ.
At John 20:17, following Jesus’ resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as “my God.” Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression. But never in the Bible is the Father reported to refer to the Son as “my God,” nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the holy spirit as “my God.”

The Pagan doctrine of the trinity is not supported by the scriptures.



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by WorldShadow
reply to post by shearder
 


"Oh i am SURE he will comment when your time comes"

Your god can't speak for himself?.


Oh he can speak for himself. That comment was from me. Unfortunately, if he had to spek for himself now, that would defeat the object - happy is he who believes but does not see.

I recon if he had to come to you now and speak you would be reduced to a babbling fool reduced to nothing. hmmm... a thought just came to mind.

Anyways... he will speak.



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 12:56 AM
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umm yes... What ever you say. That's 'IF'.

A god that thinks that way and presents no edvience for it is just stpuid. How do you know it's not the same with santa or any other god out there?

Like i said before:
Do babies go to hell? Their only sin according to you guys, not believing. Also what about those people who live in thrid world countrys who never heard of Jesus? How can they believe?

How can you believe something you've never heard of?



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
Not all Chritians believe in the trinity. Many understand that it is a concept derived from Pagan religions and adopted some time after the death of the Apostles who, while alive, stood as a bullwark agianst the philosophies of men creeping into the congregation.

Jesus clearly stated that he was not equal; to the Father here;

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”


"I go to the Father" not "I go into the Father"

The Jesus spirit would still exist as a single being, IMO.



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 



Like i said before:
Do babies go to hell? Their only sin according to you guys, not believing. Also what about those people who live in thrid world countrys who never heard of Jesus? How can they believe?

How can you believe something you've never heard of?



Romans 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.


Paul is telling us that if one isn't aware of the law then it isn't considered a sin, however......


Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15.Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

16.In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.



Paul is also telling us that those that have not been taught the law will be judged on their actions as we all have a strong sense of what is right and what is wrong. We may not know the finer points of God's law but we know not to kill, rape, steal, etc., and will be judged accordingly.

As far as babies going to hell. Of course not. God places our souls in these bodies and my belief is that He knows when some will end their earthly existence while young. We must all go though this earthly existence before this age ends, all souls must do that. So....my belief is that He places the most wonderful souls in those bodies so they won't have to experience what happens on this earth. That is my belief.

Also, there is no hell for anyone until after the millennium. All souls will be taught through that time, without the influence of Satan. (Rev.20)

.........Whirlwind



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by DJMessiah
 


It clear to me that the trinity belief system is pure Polytheism. And Very well said
thanks for the post.



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 08:11 AM
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1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
This imply that in those days they had many Gods.
So competition was cruel and deadly.
If the god of all god was to write something about preference in worshiping I think it would have look something like that:
"1. You shall have no other truth then your truth.


Kacou



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by whirlwind
 


I think you are putting up a good debate here, however I think you are wrong.
You have used scripture out of text to justify a belief.

You have used scripture from:
Romans
Luke
Acts
1 Corinthians
Genesis
Revelations
John
Matthew

I feel most of these are not connected in any way.

Do any other Christians agree with whirlwind point of view?

One Christian I know told me not to speak to you
I do however find it interesting.

I believe if the original sin was sex, the bible would have said so, clearly, and not having to goto the old and new testament to come to a conclusion.



posted on Oct, 2 2007 @ 08:38 AM
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Was the forbidden fruit sexual relations, as some have held? This view finds no support in Scripture. For one thing, when God made the prohibition, Adam was alone and evidently remained that way for a while. (Genesis 2:23)

Second, God told Adam and Eve to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth.” (Genesis 1:28) Certainly, he would not command them to break his law and then sentence them to death for doing so! (1 John 4:8)

Third, Eve partook of the fruit before Adam and later gave some to her husband. (Genesis 3:6) Adam and Eve sinned separately, not simultaneously. Chapter 3, verse 6, makes it clear that Eve was seduced to eat of the fruit first and that “afterward she gave some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it.” So eating of the forbidden fruit would make an inept and farfetched symbol of sexual intercourse.
Clearly, the fruit was not sex.






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