A contradiction in the bible, page 4
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reply posted on 1-10-2007 @ 07:09 PM by AncientVoid
reply to post by greeneyedleo



This has been explained couple of times above.
John is not his own father, son or brother...

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
What about gravitational flux? The stories of ancient giants, and the sheer size of the large dinosaurs? There obviously has to have been gravitational flux on the whole in the planets history.


This has to do more with the oxygen in the air. It was a lot more dense back then. Also the Earth was smaller back then, so it would have a smaller gravitional force right? Think it has to do more with the oxygen.


reply posted on 1-10-2007 @ 07:53 PM by Funkydung
Originally posted by DJMessiah
Originally posted by Funkydung
i am a father
i am a son
i am a brother

im still one


Are you your own father, son, and brother? the same blood runs thru all of us.


Back on topic: One of the largest debate among the Catholic Church is if Jesus is God or if he was just a vessel for God's spirit. using God's spirit from inside of him.


im definatly not catholic...but jesus was god in the flesh.



Either way, it doesn't make sense when you take into accout that Jesus prayed to God. If he is God, did he pray to himself and why? Why would God pray to himself? If he was the vessel of God, does that mean Jesus talked to himself? If so, then when his followers prayed to God, did they face Jesus?


the man jesus prayed to the spirit. they knew he was the god in flesh and understood that god the spirit could be in jesus and heaven at the same time...they prayed to god the spirit that was both inside god and in heaven...no need to face a certain direction.


There are also passages in the Bible claiming the Father is in heaven. If the Father is in heaven and Jesus is God, then who were people supposed to pray to?


the spirit of god. the creator...who was right there next to them...


If Jesus is the word, and the word has always been with God, then wouldn't that mean that Jesus existed in heaven before coming to Earth, then after leaving Earth went back to heaven? If he went back to heaven, and he is God, then wouldn't that mean that both the son and father are in heaven side by side?


yes jesus definatly existed before time existed. he just came manifested into the flesh 2000 years ago. god manifesed in the flesh.



If he merely was a product of God's spirit, and was then combined back into God's spirit when he goes back to heaven, then it would fall in line with beliefs of Brahmin, or karma (our spirits returning to the original creator and combining with his).


sorta i guess. not sure on this one....


One should also take into account that Christianity teaches that Jesus will return. If he returns, will it be in human form, through another birth, or will it be spiritual?


it says he will return the way he left....he left going up into heavens physically ..probably return coming down from the heavens physically...but he wont be an infant.

[edit on 1-10-2007 by Funkydung]

[edit on 1-10-2007 by Funkydung]


reply posted on 1-10-2007 @ 08:04 PM by AncientVoid
reply to post by Funkydung



I knew a lame answer like this would appear. God is god, no matter what form he takes. Didn't it state that man can't see god? Can't find the quote...



reply posted on 1-10-2007 @ 08:10 PM by Funkydung
Originally posted by AncientVoid
reply to
post by Funkydung



I knew a lame answer like this would appear. God is god, no matter what form he takes. Didn't it state that man can't see god? Can't find the quote...


i said that they cant see him unless he manifests himself physically. no man has seen the spirit. jesus said, the spirit doesnt have flesh and bone. Luke 24: 39.


reply posted on 1-10-2007 @ 08:12 PM by AncientVoid
reply to post by Funkydung



Yeh i know, but what's that quote which states man can't see god because man is too sinful?

Edit: I just had a thought, do babies go to hell? Their only sin according to you guys, not believing. Also what about those people who live in thrid world countrys who never heard of Jesus? How can they believe?

[edit on 1-10-2007 by AncientVoid]


reply posted on 1-10-2007 @ 08:37 PM by Sparky63
Originally posted by Funkydung


yep this was the flesh talking about the spirit that was inside of him....the spirit is greater than the flesh.


This is the most common response from trinitarians. They claim that any statements made by Jesus, that indicates the superior position of the Father must be true only because he was still in the flesh, that is, not ascended yet.

Pehaps you should consider what was said of his relationship with the God after he ascended.

This was from 1 Crointhians 11:3

I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.”


Revised Standard Version.

Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. So the truth here stated applies to the relationship between God and Christ in heaven.

Or This one; also years after he ascended.

1 Cor 15:27-28 Revised Standard

“‘God has put all things in subjection under his [Jesus’] feet.’ But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection under him,’ it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.”


Both of these verses indicate Jesus subserviant role in relation to his Father, God the Almighty. And again, both after his asscension.

The role of Father & Son is well defined. Jesus in his exalted heavenly position after his resurrection is still not equal to the Father.

Another interesting point: The Hebrew word Shad·dai′ and the Greek word Pan·to·kra′tor are both translated “Almighty.” Both original-language words are repeatedly applied to the Father. (Ex. 6:3; Rev. 19:6) Neither expression is ever applied to either the Son or the holy spirit.

Consider too

1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”

Repeatedly, even following Jesus’ ascension to heaven, the Scriptures refer to the Father as “the God” of Jesus Christ.
At John 20:17, following Jesus’ resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as “my God.” Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression. But never in the Bible is the Father reported to refer to the Son as “my God,” nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the holy spirit as “my God.”

The Pagan doctrine of the trinity is not supported by the scriptures.


reply posted on 2-10-2007 @ 12:28 AM by shearder
Originally posted by WorldShadow
reply to
post by shearder



"Oh i am SURE he will comment when your time comes"

Your god can't speak for himself?.


Oh he can speak for himself. That comment was from me. Unfortunately, if he had to spek for himself now, that would defeat the object - happy is he who believes but does not see.

I recon if he had to come to you now and speak you would be reduced to a babbling fool reduced to nothing. hmmm... a thought just came to mind.

Anyways... he will speak.


reply posted on 2-10-2007 @ 07:57 AM by whirlwind
reply to post by AncientVoid



Like i said before:
Do babies go to hell? Their only sin according to you guys, not believing. Also what about those people who live in thrid world countrys who never heard of Jesus? How can they believe?

How can you believe something you've never heard of?



Romans 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.


Paul is telling us that if one isn't aware of the law then it isn't considered a sin, however......


Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15.Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

16.In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.



Paul is also telling us that those that have not been taught the law will be judged on their actions as we all have a strong sense of what is right and what is wrong. We may not know the finer points of God's law but we know not to kill, rape, steal, etc., and will be judged accordingly.

As far as babies going to hell. Of course not. God places our souls in these bodies and my belief is that He knows when some will end their earthly existence while young. We must all go though this earthly existence before this age ends, all souls must do that. So....my belief is that He places the most wonderful souls in those bodies so they won't have to experience what happens on this earth. That is my belief.

Also, there is no hell for anyone until after the millennium. All souls will be taught through that time, without the influence of Satan. (Rev.20)

.........Whirlwind


reply posted on 2-10-2007 @ 08:04 AM by LDragonFire
reply to post by DJMessiah



It clear to me that the trinity belief system is pure Polytheism. And Very well said thanks for the post.


reply posted on 2-10-2007 @ 08:21 AM by LDragonFire
reply to post by whirlwind



I think you are putting up a good debate here, however I think you are wrong.
You have used scripture out of text to justify a belief.

You have used scripture from:
Romans
Luke
Acts
1 Corinthians
Genesis
Revelations
John
Matthew

I feel most of these are not connected in any way.

Do any other Christians agree with whirlwind point of view?

One Christian I know told me not to speak to you I do however find it interesting.

I believe if the original sin was sex, the bible would have said so, clearly, and not having to goto the old and new testament to come to a conclusion.
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