Originally posted by oliveoil
I could have done that by simply showing her many,many verses indicating that God the father is deity,Jesus is deity,and the Holy Ghost is deity.
1 John 5:7 confirms this.
7,8 - For there are three that testify:the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
im sorry, how does this scripture show the trinity?
oh right, your using the scripture that was added after the 8th century
What I was trying to do was show Miriam that the only two scriptures that she could possibly use in her defence against the Trinity ( Col 1:15
Were very weak.
These two verses imply that Jesus was not created,
therefore making him a deity, equal to YHWH ETERNAL !!
and since there can only be one true god , hence the word Trinity.
lol. i actually found this comment funny.
first, i wasnt using these verses to disprove the trinity. they are verses that show that jesus was created.
how you think they imply that he wasnt is an amazing leap of logic.
you want to talk about the trinity and how jesus is equal to god?
john 5: The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making
himself equal with God.
ok, i think its safe to say that you agree with what the jews were accusing him. you think jesus is equal to god. if you are right, jesus would
confirm this no?
 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for
what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
jesus doesnt confirm it. if fact he says the opposite. he says that he does what he sees the father doing, not what he wills.
 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may
so the father teaches the son. "shows" him. if jesus was GOD and thereby equal to him, why would GOD need to show anything to him? they would be the
 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
how can jesusGODthing judge no man and yet commit to himself the job of judging all?
 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent
clearly talking about 2 people. how could god "send" himself?
 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into
condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall
 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
"given to the son", "given him"
 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
which hath sent me.
how can jesus "seek not" his own will, but the "will of the father" if they are the same person?!?!?!
they cant! that because jesus is not claiming to be GOD.
here is the point:
 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
the bible says to let every matter be settled by the testimony of 2 or more witnesses. jesus is saying that his testimony is not enough.
 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of
me, that the Father hath sent me.
 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
he refers to GOD as a witness.
so jesus cannot use his own testimony
, but can use his father's
 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
jesus then uses the scriptures as his second witness.
jesus himself, when given the allegation of equality to god refutes the claim. he then refers to his father as a separate witness, something that is
IMPOSSIBLE if he was in fact god.
try, please i beg you, try to explain this chapter away. i would love to see how the trinity could possible fit into any of this chapter