A contradiction in the bible

Originally posted by Saurus
In Hinduism, the various Gods are understood to be simply different manifestations of a single supreme being, yet Christians call them polytheistic.

In Christianity, the trinity is understood to be simply three different manifestations of a single supreme being, yet Christians call it monotheistic.

Are Christians living by dual standards?

"How seldom we weigh our neighbor with the same balance as ourselves."
-Thomas A Kempis

exactly...

star and flagged.

you too dragon.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by agoodshot

 

you can't explain the doctrine correctly, it's nonsensical in nature

1=1
3=1
1=3

that doesn't make sense!
especially since characters 2 and 3 only appeared about 2/3rds of the way into the story..

2 in 1 shampoo doesn't make sense by that logic either. Consider this...look at your cell phone. Does it have a main piece, a battery, and a battery cover? Are they not THREE pieces that form ONE thing? Is it not possible that the J-man, God, (being the main part of the phone,) and the Holy Spirit form ONE being, God Proper?

EDIT: I'm not claiming to be of any religion, doctrine, or theology, I'm just pointing out something that (personally) seems obvious.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by griffinox]

To die on the cross, Jesus had to be seperated from the rest of God. At that moment he was fully human, necessary to die (since god's cannot die, I think?) So at that moment when Jesus was dead, the universe was only ruled by two third of God, a duality not a trinity. So on the third day the duality deceided to ressurect their third part. Did they unite again after the resurrection?

(I'm trying to understand som God-physics)

reply to post by Safandjaro


The Spiritual part of Jesus never died. Jesus would not have lived as long as he did if he were not also God. What I mean is if he was running on nothing but pure humanity, when the weight of the sins of the world were placed on him, he would have been instantly crushed. Peter says that while Jesus' mortal body lie dead, he was in the netherworld preaching to the departed people who had not the opportunity to listen to him in person. When the Father said that it was time to rise, the Son reanimated his broken body and came back into our world.

reply to post by jmdewey60


But then Jesus 'dying' on the cross doesn't make sense, because we are in effect saying only his body died for our sins.

Since it is the act of 'dying' that saved mankind, this would mean that Jesus's body means more than Jesus's spirit.

Originally posted by griffinox
2 in 1 shampoo doesn't make sense by that logic either. Consider this...look at your cell phone. Does it have a main piece, a battery, and a battery cover? Are they not THREE pieces that form ONE thing? Is it not possible that the J-man, God, (being the main part of the phone,) and the Holy Spirit form ONE being, God Proper?

there is a difference between 3 components being one person, and 3 people being one person.

for example, a man (lets call him bob) can be a father and a husband and a son all at the same time. however he does not play those roles at the same time. if he is at a family reunion, he is still one person with three titles, not 3 people in 1 person.

if someone cam up to him and asked him a question, like, how is your son? if bob were to reply, ¨sorry, no im bob the husband. you should ask bob the father.¨ you would think he belongs in a hospital.

yet the bible does give us instances that clearly differentiate the 3.

for example.

mark 13:[32] But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

jesus is talking about the time of the end and he clearly states that he doesnt know when it is, but the father does.

the trinity asserts that jesus and god are the same being. so trinitarians try to weasel around this scripture by saying that in jesus´¨humbled¨ state, that this is possible. but at the same time they assert that jesus and god are equal. if god is allknowing, then so should jesus.

it would be like asking bob a question and him saying that you have the wrong bob. it doesnt make sense.

instead, logically it would make sense to understand this passage in the most literal and simple way it is presented. jesus doesnt know the date because god has not told him. they are separate people with different abilities.

it really is just simple logic

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Safandjaro

 

The Spiritual part of Jesus never died. Jesus would not have lived as long as he did if he were not also God. What I mean is if he was running on nothing but pure humanity, when the weight of the sins of the world were placed on him, he would have been instantly crushed. Peter says that while Jesus' mortal body lie dead, he was in the netherworld preaching to the departed people who had not the opportunity to listen to him in person. When the Father said that it was time to rise, the Son reanimated his broken body and came back into our world.

eccls says that the dead are conscience of nothing at all. and psalms says that the thoughts of the dead do perish. so obviously there is more to that passage in peter than you think.

but saurus is right, if jesus didnt completely die, then how was the ransom payed?

reply to post by Saurus

I guess I should have been more specific. Jesus died to the same extent that any other person dies.
The god-nature of Jesus did not die. We can not understand exactly what he was doing. Peter had a close relationship with Jesus and seems to have had some information that no one else has been able to pass down to us today.

Originally posted by miriam0566

 

eccls says that the dead are conscience of nothing at all. and psalms says that the thoughts of the dead do perish. so obviously there is more to that passage in peter than you think.
but saurus is right, if jesus didnt completely die, then how was the ransom payed?

I am sure the normal human thoughts of Jesus died with the rest of the human nature of Jesus. The god aspect of the person, which we do not have and only Jesus had, continued on.
I agree there was more going on in the story than is explained. I do not think there is a literal Greek type Hell where all the dead people are sitting around holding conversations about religion, and Jesus ambles over and says,"By the way, I just died for your sins." Something more had to happen and it may have involved The Word, that survived the death of Jesus, bringing people to life in some unseen location and giveing them the news of the old promise being fulfilled.


[edit on 9-4-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by WiseSheep


You are only the second I've seen or heard that has thought of water as a representation. Pretty cool, unless it's steam.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Saurus

 

I guess I should have been more specific. Jesus died to the same extent that any other person dies.
The god-nature of Jesus did not die. We can not understand exactly what he was doing. Peter had a close relationship with Jesus and seems to have had some information that no one else has been able to pass down to us today.

2 john 1:[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

the christians that john was warning against believed the same as you. that jesus was elsewhere in a spirit realm while his body died.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I am sure the normal human thoughts of Jesus died with the rest of the human nature of Jesus. The god aspect of the person, which we do not have and only Jesus had, continued on.
I agree there was more going on in the story than is explained. I do not think there is a literal Greek type Hell where all the dead people are sitting around holding conversations about religion, and Jesus ambles over and says,"By the way, I just died for your sins." Something more had to happen and it may have involved The Word, that survived the death of Jesus, bringing people to life in some unseen location and giveing them the news of the old promise being fulfilled.

i didnt want to have to get into it, but i see its needed. im using the new american standard because "quicken" is not a world that english uses much today.

1 peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

so if godly jesus was already alive in the spirit realm, how was he "made alive in the spirit" after his death? infact, you theory basically is saying that jesus wasnt resurrected at all since part of him was already alive.

[19] in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison

the king james renders "εκηρυξεν" as "preach" and it confuses everyone. how can jesus be in hell preaching if he is dead?

"εκηρυξεν" can also mean to herald and declare. in this context it would be to declare victory. but who are these spirits?

[20] who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

the people in noah's day were destroyed and are dead. they are unable to be talked to since they dont think.

but the passage specifically references noah's time.

gen 6:1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

sons of god is only used in the bible when referring to angels. job 1:6; job 2:1; job 38:7; those christians who have a heavenly hope are adopted sons of god. 1 john 3:2

so from the context, spirit sons of god came to earth and had relations with human women. this created the nephilim.

peter goes on to explain

2 peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

the world "hell" here is actually ταρταρωσας or tartarus which is actually different than mankind's hell. we know that the demons are active so this is not an inactive hell, but rather a state of condemnation.

this puts 1 peter 3:19 into perspective. jesus' death was a declaration of victory and means that there is a short time left for the demons.

reply to post by miriam0566
that verse has to do with the thing in 1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
Apparently there were some Christians who did not believe in the literal incarnation, and I do not think it has anything to do with what went on while he was dead.

reply to post by miriam0566

i didn't want to have to get into it, but i see its needed. im using the new american standard because "quicken" is not a world that english uses much today.

1 peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Sorry about that, but I am in the habit of reading the King James.

1 Peter 3:18 (King James Version)

18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

This version says by the Spirit.
I really do not know what your problem is with. Is it more about not thinking there is a hell, or is it that part of Jesus could appear to part of someone who is dead? Or do you think I believe in a phantom Jesus?
Could be it is all of the above.
What I was trying to say is that there was not exactly what is normally called hell. It could mean that somehow it was possible, when Jesus was in a purely god mode, while his physical body was dead, to communicate with some consciousness that could be brought into existence by a god.
Jesus is God, in some difficult to imagine way. While he was a soul of the human sort, he was restrained in his divine powers and submitted himself to a higher power who he called his Father and God.
Once his human soul was dead, his eternal God identity was able to operate unrestrained. At this point he would have been able to do things that he would have refrained from while alive as a human soul.


[edit on 29-5-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by LDragonFire

The first commandment is simple in its wording; there can be no other explanations for what is said or what it means. Yet modern Christianity does not practice monotheism in a pure form. Christianity teaches and preaches the Trinity The belief that the Father[1] the Son[2] and the Holy Spirit[3] are of one God.

This too me is incorrect and a direct violation of the first commandment.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 [KJV]
This is a direct violation of the first commandment. A contradiction.

The Father and Son are clearly separate beings. The Father meaning The God as in You shall have NO other Gods before ME. Then We have the Son of God, that said

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.” John 14:1 [KJV]

"If you love me, you will obey what I command.” John 14:15 [KJV]

Again they are separate beings. Separate Gods

Oh my god YOU are so SMART and ORIGINAL. It is almost as if you put some numbers in all on your own. Lurk moar.
Rip this off a tad?

The first commandment is simple in its wording; there can be no other explanations for what is said or what it means. Yet modern Christianity does not practice monotheism in a pure form. Christianity teaches and preaches the Trinity The belief that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are of one God.
This too me is incorrect and a direct violation of the first commandment.
hace 1 año
Detalles adicionales
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 [KJV]
This is a direct violation of the first commandment. A contradiction.

The Father and Son are clearly separate beings. The Father meaning The God as in You shall have NO other Gods before ME. Then We have the Son of God, that said

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.” John 14:1

"If you love me, you will obey what I command.” John 14:15

Again they are separate beings. Separate Gods

reply to post by The Mack


There is a time stamp when I made my post, I was ripped off not the other way around, thanks for showing us that.

*eddit to add* posted on 29-9-2007 @ 10:36 PM

[edit on 29-5-2009 by LDragonFire]

[edit on 29-5-2009 by The Mack]

reply to post by The Mack

Boy I wish I spoke or could write Spanish I would post a reply to direct them back to this original thread!!

As far as I can tell that discussion is one year old this one is older than that

Keep in mind MAN wrote the bible. Which means its not perfect and it's been handed down from he said she said, so it has been misconstrued for a long time.
Catholics and Christians only have one thing in common, they beleive that Christ is the Messiah and the son of God. As a Christian the Father, Son , and the Holy Spirit are not an active part of my religious practice.

There's almost nothing in the bible that can be backed up with concrete evidence . But you have a choice.......... to exist in this world, or to exist eternally. Your call bro. What you decide has no bearing on me. Amen!

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Apparently there were some Christians who did not believe in the literal incarnation, and I do not think it has anything to do with what went on while he was dead.

and why dont you think they believed in a literal incarnation?

because they believed that jesus never left the spirit realm.

its actually a gnostic teaching that jesus was the spiritual form and that jesus the flesh was like a puppet.

the problem was that this meant that jesus never really died. this is EXACTLY what you are claiming with you divine jesus/human jesus theory