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A contradiction in the bible

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posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
very good question. i avoided getting into heaven and earth because its a subject unto its own and i didnt want to blast you with everything at once.

so, your question....

verse 20 makes a reference to noah. if you remember, spirits were involved in noah´s day.....


I just went to two websites where both of them say that the spirits he preached to were those humans who died in flood. Here we go back to interpretation. You interpret that it means one thing, while other christians interpret it to mean something else. Who's right? Who's not putting 2 and 2 together? It's so hard for me to figure out. I can look all over the internet to try to find answers and I can get 100 different answers for the same question. How am I supposed to know which one is right?




posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
I just went to two websites where both of them say that the spirits he preached to were those humans who died in flood. Here we go back to interpretation. You interpret that it means one thing, while other christians interpret it to mean something else. Who's right? Who's not putting 2 and 2 together? It's so hard for me to figure out. I can look all over the internet to try to find answers and I can get 100 different answers for the same question. How am I supposed to know which one is right?


why do the websites believe that? is it because they believe in the immortal soul? do they think the dead are alive somewhere?

i showed scriptures that very plainly state otherwise.

their interpretation is in direct conflict with several points in the bible. its like they are showing you a cube, but several of the colors are out of place. can they rightly claim that they have solved it?

i know it sounds impossible and daunting, but one can logically figure out the bible. it just requires alittle effort. if a piece doesnt fit, then logically it doesnt go there.

the other thing you have to consider is that not all interpretations are good willed.

2 cor 4:[3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

satan tries his best to blind people. he is actively twisting god´s word. it should be no surprise that christianity has so many denominations and different interpretations.

i asked why there are so many religions to a friend that studied with me. she replied, ¨where is the best place to hide a tree? in a forest.¨



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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Can you then explain to me how a person can die on the hospital table, float out of their body and see the operating room and everything going on, then be brought back into their body when the doctors restart their heart? How could they see all of that if they don't see anything when they are dead?

Also, can you explain to me how I saw my brother's spirit standing in the room smiling at me while we were having church service yet his body was on the hospital bed on life support? (My grandmother saw him too at the same time) He never came back by the way, even though people told us that God said he would.

[edit on 8-9-2008 by Hydroman]

[edit on 8-9-2008 by Hydroman]



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


If you believe it hard enough you'll see ghosts. The consious mind projects for those who believe in the supernatural. People who don't believe in an after life don't see apparations. The same principle can be applied to UFO sightings.

This woman at my work told me that her deceased relative was talking to his son. The deceased father was coming periodically to his son and giving fore knowledge of certain events that had not happened yet. The son asked his father if he had comforted his mom. The father said he would not talk to her. He said he would only talk to him.

This sounds like this is only coming out of the son's mind.



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by lostinspace

If you believe it hard enough you'll see ghosts. The consious mind projects for those who believe in the supernatural. People who don't believe in an after life don't see apparations. The same principle can be applied to UFO sightings.


Well, I don't know how it happened because I wasn't expecting it. I was standing there during the worship part of the service in the chapel at the hospital when I saw him. I don't really know how to explain it except that it seemed I was looking into a different dimension or something. I wasn't trying or hoping that I'd see him, it just happened. I saw him standing there with his arms crossed and his left leg crossed over in front of his right leg, and he was smiling. I leaned over to his wife and told her he was ok. After the service was over I heard my grandmother talking about what she saw, and it was the exact same thing I saw. I still don't understand it, but I wish it'd happen again.



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 



The problem with any mysterious siting is the fact that they are always elusive. Why the few witnesses? Why the cryptic messages? They should be more like words of wisdom from Obi-Wan Kenobi. Maybe it takes more than one person to make the deceased to appear. Meaning its a combined thought projection. Did your Grandma see your brother in the exact same spot you did?



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by lostinspace
reply to post by Hydroman
 



The problem with any mysterious siting is the fact that they are always elusive. Why the few witnesses? Why the cryptic messages? They should be more like words of wisdom from Obi-Wan Kenobi. Maybe it takes more than one person to make the deceased to appear. Meaning its a combined thought projection. Did your Grandma see your brother in the exact same spot you did?

I don't know if she saw him in the exact same spot because she was in a different part of the room, but she described him the exact same way I saw him. Again, I wasn't expecting to see him. I wasn't even thinking about it. It just happened. I didn't even know she had seen him until after the service was over and I heard her talking about it. That's when I told her that I had seen the same thing, and it confirmed for me that I wasn't crazy.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Hydroman]



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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Wow good posts ...great answers
I dont know how I missed this post
Miriam wow ....

I think I may know who he preached to when he died .
How about the angels that fell ?They were chained ...the bible says Jesus took the keys to death and hell and set the captives free..Wouldnt that also be the Angels that were in chains after the flood ?

The bible says
We will judge angels someday
Maybe they get a chance to come back to him now after his death and resurection .



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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Yes, Miriam has great insight. But, it's like everything else to do with the Bible or anything for that matter, who is interpreting it the right way? It's just like the mark of the beast. What is it exactly? There are hundreds of different ideas on what it can be. Who's got it right? It's the same with the questions in this thread. Does Miriam have it right? It's possible. Or, what about the hundreds of other explanations that christians give? All of them can back up their answers with the Bible according to how each interpret it. I hate that.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
It's just like the mark of the beast. What is it exactly? There are hundreds of different ideas on what it can be.


mark of the wild beast is alittle bit different. revelation was designed to be a secret that was to be opened at the ¨proper time¨. granted, im one of many that believe this is infact the ¨proper time¨ but that still doesnt mean everything is revealed now.

i can give you the most likely candidates as to the identity of the beast, but the mark is still something thats not known about that will present itself in the future.

but lets face it here, the mark is a prophecy. its something that will be recognized when the time comes. doctrines to live by are not a mystery. its something that can be figured out now.

ive shown you scripturally what the bible says about the dead. ive shown you a complete rubiks cube when it comes to death.

-----------------------

about your brother.... (which im sorry to hear about btw)

the bible is very clear about the condition of the dead (ive shown that to you already), so what or who did you actually see? a good example of this situation is saul. (im sure you know who he was, but ill explain for anyone else listening who doesnt.)

saul was the first anointed king of isreal but after awhile he turned away from god. god had decided who the next king would be but for some reason chose not to implement it right away.

the prophet samuel was the one who spoke god´s will during this time. unfortunately for saul, god stopped revealing his will to him. saul had gone so wayward, that god had severed all communication with him. samuel died at some point, and saul was desperate for advice.

1 sam 28:[5] And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.
[6] And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

so he turned to a spirit-medium.

[7] Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

now spiritism (the belief that the spirits of the dead contact the living) was forbidden by jewish law. (Lev 19:31; 20:6, 27; Deut 18:9-12. compare with isaiah 8:19,20). so saul going to one was not god´s will nor would he have supported it in anyway.

so what happened? saul saw the spirit of samuel!

[8] And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
[9] And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
[10] And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
[11] Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
[12] And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
[13] And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
[14] And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

then there was a conversation

[15] And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
[16] Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
[17] And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
[18] Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
[19] Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

this raises the question, was it samuel?

if god forbade spiritism, then he would not have supported this, the holy spirit cannot act against itself. so then who was behind this?

the question then becomes why would god forbid spiritism? if one could actually talk to the dead, wouldnt it be something that god would allow? wouldnt it be nice to talk to all the loved ones that passed on? but therein lies the cube problem again, the bible is clear that the dead are ¨asleep¨. so its reasonable to assume that god forbade spiritism as a protection for us. remember, satan wants you to believe lies.

rev 12:[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

if this ¨samuel¨ was called, it was not by god. if infact it was samuel, and not called by god, this means the devil can call god´s servents. see how little that makes sense?

¨samuel¨ was a trick. a spectre of the devil conveying half truths.

this is not uncommon. so many forget how active satan and the demons are.

so many people have accounts of seeing ghosts or dead loved ones, but its just one more way he deceives the world (2 tim 4:[4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.)

im not saying that you are lying, i believe that you saw what you saw, i have my own situations involving spirits. but the bible helps us to see where they really come from

remember satan will do anything to convince you otherwise.

2 cor 11:[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 04:53 AM
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Who's got it right? It's the same with the questions in this thread. Does Miriam have it right? It's possible. Or, what about the hundreds of other explanations that christians give? All of them can back up their answers with the Bible according to how each interpret it. I hate that.


john 10:[3] To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
[4] And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
[5] And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

you need to discern that for yourself. but one thing is for sure, someone who cant reason from the bible is not conveying the word of god, but instead are conveying their own.

if you go to my profile and look at some of the threads i have posted, ive talked about alot of things, like the trinity and the dead. you´ll notice that alot of people´s arguments DEPEND on ignoring certain scriptures because they immediately invalidate their interpretation. for example, how can one have an immortal soul when ezekial 18:4,20 says otherwise in no uncertain terms?

and lets face it, the sad truth is, that not everyone wants the truth. it might mean making changes we dont like.

i know the church doesnt like the truth, it would mean empty pews for them. alot of the pagan custom were brought into the church for the sole purpose of making it easier to convert the people. i believe a bishop said ¨if people are worshiping a tree, and they refuse to stop, sanctify the tree and call it holy.¨ (i dont have the exact quote, if anyone does, please let me know)

just things to consider



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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Hello again Miriam
,

First of all, are you saying that that wasn't my brother but instead it was some fallen angel or evil spirit pretending to be my brother? If so, that would be very strange because we were in a christian worship service singing praise and worship songs to God. The Bible says that where 2 or 3 are together in his name that he is there in the midst of them. So, if there were at least 30 people there in his name, he must've been there in the midst of us. That being said, can an evil spirit also show up in there when Jesus is there with us too? That means that evil spirits and good spirits could be in ALL church services, which I guess is possible, I haven't really thought about that. Hmm, Satan and Jesus in a church service together. That's interesting.

Next, what did Jesus mean when he told the thief on the cross that "today you will be with me in paradise" if the thief was actually going to be non-existant after he died?

Didn't Jesus speak with Moses and Elijah before he was crucified? Wouldn't both of these guys be dead? How could he speak to them if they were non-existant? Yes, Elijah was taken alive to heaven, but he had to have died eventually.

Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That means that you are still existing.

What about all of the experiences thousands of people have had with death? There are even some people on this board who have seen the afterlife. There have been doctors converted to Christianity because of people talking about the afterlife-heaven AND hell-after they had been brought back to life on the operating table.

Where did you learn how to speak english btw? You are very good at it.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
reply to post by agoodshot
 



God took upon Himself to be the Suffering Messiah......as the Old Testament prophets foretold of His Crucifixion and sufferings.........


The most vivid and detailed prediction about the sufferings of the Messiah is the prophecy of Isaiah, which occupies one and a half chapters of his book (the end of the 52nd and all of the 53rd). This prophecy contains such details of the sufferings of Christ, that the reader gets the impression that the prophet Isaiah wrote it at the foot of Golgotha, even though, as we know, the prophet Isaiah lived over seven centuries BC. We present here this prophecy.


'' And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors” (Is. 53:1-12).

more here....
helen

EDIT...spelling mistake


[edit on 9/30/2007 by helen670]


Okay, but then please answer me this. If Jesus was the "Lord God" in human form then why, in a few situations, does he question 'God' his father? I mean, in the garden he asks his father to take the chalice from his lips. Then on the cross he asks his father why he has forsaken him.

That doesn't sound like 'one' god to me.

Even more important, if "God" knew how important it was for him to be sacrificed to clean up the sin of man then why would he be fearful and afraid and ask for this burden to be removed? Seriously. If he was GOD then he knew it was necessary.

Do you see some of the problems here?

I understand the good feeling that belonging to something that preaches love and joy can be. But when some things simply don't click it just brings up very valid and important questions.



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
First of all, are you saying that that wasn't my brother but instead it was some fallen angel or evil spirit pretending to be my brother? If so, that would be very strange because we were in a christian worship service singing praise and worship songs to God. The Bible says that where 2 or 3 are together in his name that he is there in the midst of them. So, if there were at least 30 people there in his name, he must've been there in the midst of us. That being said, can an evil spirit also show up in there when Jesus is there with us too? That means that evil spirits and good spirits could be in ALL church services, which I guess is possible, I haven't really thought about that. Hmm, Satan and Jesus in a church service together. That's interesting.


does the church teach the immortality of the soul?

or actually here is a question, does god care if a church teaches wrong doctrines? does this affect your relationship with him?

isrealites felt that it was ok to adopt their own customs, remember the calf?

exd 32:4 He took this from their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool and made it into a molten calf; and they said, "This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt."
5 Now when Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made a proclamation and said, "Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD."

they made that calf dedicated to GOD. it wasnt some other god they were worshiping, it was the god that brought them out of egypt.

how did god feel?

8 "They have quickly turned aside from the way which I commanded them. They have made for themselves a molten calf, and have worshiped it and have sacrificed to it and said, 'This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt!'"
9 The LORD said to Moses, "I have seen this people, and behold, they are an obstinate people.
10 "Now then let Me alone, that My anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them; and I will make of you a great nation."

does that sound like god is pleased?

hebrews 10: 26 For if we choose to go on sinning we learned the full truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, (this was after jesus´s sacrifice btw)

if a church has access to god´s word, deliberately teaches a doctrine that is in conflict with the bible, can they truly say they speak for god?

pss 31:Into Your hand I commit my spirit; You have ransomed me, O LORD, God of truth.


Next, what did Jesus mean when he told the thief on the cross that "today you will be with me in paradise" if the thief was actually going to be non-existant after he died?


what would it feel like if you died and were resurrected? would you be conscience of the time that has passed? im sure to the thief who is resurrected in the future, it will feel like he just died.


Didn't Jesus speak with Moses and Elijah before he was crucified? Wouldn't both of these guys be dead? How could he speak to them if they were non-existant? Yes, Elijah was taken alive to heaven, but he had to have died eventually.


it was a vision. remember when jesus said that they would witness him in his kingdom glory. it was a foreshadow of events to come.


Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That means that you are still existing.


it could also mean a resurrection.

paul also said

rom 6:5 For if we have become united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his

1 cor 15: 50 Brothers, this is what I mean: Mortal bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay.

this gets into the resurrection which is a major pillar in the greek scriptures with lots of scriptures.

which then bares the question, if the soul is immortal, why need a resurrection?


What about all of the experiences thousands of people have had with death? There are even some people on this board who have seen the afterlife. There have been doctors converted to Christianity because of people talking about the afterlife-heaven AND hell-after they had been brought back to life on the operating table.


i was once in a pool on a beautiful summer day floating blissfully. i was watching the clouds and i saw this form appear and it looked like a man. he reached out an tried to touch me. i was terrified and fascinated at the same time. the thing that struck me about this hallucination as that it was so vivid. i was regrettably on acid at the time.

the experience was real to me, but i know that it wasnt real

i dont doubt that people feel things, but sometimes we forget that certain things can be presented to us, whether by outside forces, or our own imagination.


Where did you learn how to speak english btw? You are very good at it.


i learned it in NY, i was there from when i was about 10 to when i was about 20.

where are you from?



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
The point which screws up the whole thing. I thought no one can see god?


Actually in the Old Testament - there are many instances where folk "saw" God and lived to tell the tale...Every time an "angel of the Lord" is mentioned you will notice that it is in fact the messenger of God - (or word of God since that is what a messenger brings and there is no word for angel in Hebrew) a messenger who is then addressed as Lord once His identity is confirmed by the witness...usually after proof is requested and given...This is Christ pre-incarnation assisting those in His human family to insure that His geneology from Adam to His birth in Bethlehem is preserved - check it out - I do not lie...and the fact that this occurs over spans of hundreds of years and that these stories ere written separately in 66 books and preserved over a period of no less than 1600 years is a testament to the power and poetry of God - regardless of crappy translations and splitting hair arguments by hide bound theologians and nay-sayers..

As to the trinity: Father - Son - Holy Spirit: It is the same principle as man with a body, soul and spirit, yet each of us is one individual entity as we are made in His image and likeness...

Also in Genesis you find this statement: Let US make man in our own image...

and then the fact remains that without the "spiritual mind" none of this will mean anything to those who wish to tear down....those who truly wish to understand will seek until they find...The Spirit of Truth - the Holy
Spirit is the ingredient needed to understand....ask and you shall receive - in other words read the book for yourself - All OF IT - and ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit - In fact I DARE YOU (that's the general 'you' - I'm not personally singling you out Ancient Void ... lol....)
and then get back to me and we can have a real conversation instead of a BS put down session spoken with no knowledge of the source material except the cliches that you have mentally assented to without study or critical thinking...



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by dariousg
 


Yeshuah the Christ was FULLY HUMAN while he walked on this earth....that was the whole point of His birth - He experienced everything we experienced including pain,suffering, joy, sadness, and temptation...anything else is Greek mythology - He was the Word MADE FLESH...He was made flesh just like us - He wept tears of blood in the garden of Gesthmane on the night before His crucifixion...I would have too if I were in His shoes....fullfill the law for the entire world???? "There is no greater love than this: that a man should lay down His life for His friends."

and by this act He gave US the power to become Sons of God....He healed the rift between man and God that Adam created when he traded fear for trust and love and gave power over this earth to satan....come ON people!

If you don't want it then let it go but if you do want to KNOW then dig in - say His name in earnest one time - YESHUAH!!!! and He will never let you go.....



posted on Sep, 9 2008 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
paul also said

rom 6:5 For if we have become united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his

1 cor 15: 50 Brothers, this is what I mean: Mortal bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay.

this gets into the resurrection which is a major pillar in the greek scriptures with lots of scriptures.

which then bares the question, if the soul is immortal, why need a resurrect

From what I understand, from when I lived as a christian, our bodies are a temporary temple for our soul/spirit to reside in. Our bodies are also corruptible, which is why they can't inherit the kingdom of God. When our bodies die because of their corruption, our spirit/soul leaves the body and goes to either heaven to be with God, or to hell....not the lake of fire, but to a place absent of God. In Heaven, we will be given an incorruptible body when Jesus returns to earth, just like the one Jesus received in His resurrection. Our spirit/soul will now reside in that body. Those who did not receive Jesus will NOT be given an incorruptible body, and their soul/spirit will burn forever in the lake of fire, which can burn spirit but they can't die, this is after the judgement.

This is pretty much what I understood when I studied. I don't know if that's how it works or not, and I can admit that. I personally hope that EVERYONE gets to make it to Heaven, or whatever it is that people see when they have an NDE.

I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about what people see when they have an NDE. I've heard of people floating around the operating table, and they hear everything the doctor says, they can see and describe the tools that the doctor used, and other things like this. Do you mean that they don't really see these things, but that it's a trick?

As far as life after death for those who are sinners, here is something Mark 9: 42-50 says:

9:42 Whoever will cause one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him if he was thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around his neck.
9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having your two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire,
9:44 'where their worm doesn't die, and the fire is not quenched.'
9:45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame, rather than having your two feet to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that will never be quenched--
9:46 'where their worm doesn't die, and the fire is not quenched.'
9:47 If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into the Kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire,
9:48 'where their worm doesn't die, and the fire is not quenched.'
9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt.
9:50 Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, with what will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.

Why would it be better to have a millstone around your neck and thrown into the sea if there's nothing to worry about? What's the big deal? I know that Gehenna was a dump outside of the city where trash was burned, but couldn't Jesus be using it as a metaphor for what is to come, much like how we use metaphors today to describe something?

I live in Kentucky in the United States. I was fairly fluent in Spanish around 10 years ago, but now I'm not so great at it because I lack the practice.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Hydroman]

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Hydroman]



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 03:12 AM
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im going to be away for a few days, i honestly dont have time to reply, but i will when i get back, i promise



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by realshanti
[
Also in Genesis you find this statement: Let US make man in our own image...

and then the fact remains that without the "spiritual mind" none of this will mean anything to those who wish to tear down....those who truly wish to understand will seek until they find...The Spirit of Truth - the Holy
Spirit is the ingredient needed to understand....ask and you shall receive - in other words read the book for yourself - All OF IT - and ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit - In fact I DARE YOU (that's the general 'you' - I'm not personally singling you out Ancient Void ... lol....)
and then get back to me and we can have a real conversation instead of a BS put down session spoken with no knowledge of the source material except the cliches that you have mentally assented to without study or critical thinking...





First, I HAVE read this book in various versions. I also 'asked for guidance' from the holy spirit. I am not one who is trying to do a 'BS put down session spoken with no knowledge of the source material'.

In the first sentence I have quoted from you which you quoted from the text it refers to 'US'. Let US make man in our own image? Also, there are references to God, god and the Lord God. What are the differences there? What does each mean? Why would 'God' even acknowledge other gods at all? If they 'didn't' exist then why even bring them up? That makes no sense.

You see, it was after about the third time through the 'reference material' that I started to really question many of the conflicts and such.

God is a vengeful and jealous god. Yet God is an all loving and kind god. Each and EVERY soul is important to God but if you screw up you are done.

You get one chance to get it right regardless of the circumstances you are born into. Does that truly seem like what an 'all loving' god would do? If you are born in a country as far from Christianity as possible then you are basically screwed. You either cease to exist or you go to 'hell'. Yup, that's fair. It's also why we have had some of the bloodiest wars in the history of this planet. Because the 'Christians' needed to 'save' the souls of the heathens.

Okay, off topic. Sorry. Just trying to explain that I have come full circle on this and my 'logical' mind is telling me that there simply are too many conflicts. I had to remove my 'faith based' emotional mind from this subject completely. Why? Because faith and emotions lead to blind following. As Jesus called them sheep they truly become that. Blind sheep that simply follow.

I don't want to slam any religion. I just want to explain that this is what I have come to in my life on this subject.

I love all regardless and would not willingly harm another soul unless absolutely necessary to defend myself or my family. I give to people when they are in need and I can afford it. I lead a good life full of love and absent of fear. Fear that seems to be a major base of all religious teachings.



posted on Sep, 10 2008 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by dariousg
 



In the first sentence I have quoted from you which you quoted from the text it refers to 'US'. Let US make man in our own image? Also, there are references to God, god and the Lord God. What are the differences there? What does each mean? Why would 'God' even acknowledge other gods at all? If they 'didn't' exist then why even bring them up? That makes no sense.


The Epic of Gilgamesh is, perhaps, the oldest written story on Earth. It comes to us from Ancient Sumeria, and was originally written on 12 clay tablets in cunieform script. It is about the adventures of the historical King of Uruk (somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE).

en.wikipedia.org...
I am ripping off a couple of ideas from another thread that seems to be discussing a parallel topic, right now.
We are faced with the truth that in the big scheme of things, the Book of Genesis is a relative late comer. My comment on this fact of there being earlier competing creation stories goes like this: The important thing to know is that there is a difference in the way that the stories attribute qualities of good and evil, between the different characters in the story.
The Bible was written to clarify who was bad and who was good. That is how you make your own propaganda and differentiate your God from the Gods of the surrounding cultures.
Other gods were the slave master demi-gods that terrorized humanity.
Our God killed those dimi-gods and freed the people.
So the evil that seems to be indicated about the nature of the God that we worship, is insignificant in comparison to the gods that He overcame. Our god is a God of freedom. The old gods do not care about our salvation or welfare and will kill us on a whim. Our God has good reason to punish evil and as long as we respect Him and our fellows, we are relatively free to be concerned about our own welfare.


[edit on 10-9-2008 by jmdewey60]



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