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A contradiction in the bible

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posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by lostinspace
 

There is a hidden planet.
Our sun is one of a twin star system. The other star has gone dead but it still has at least one planet that orbits it. Every once in a while, that planet crosses paths with our planet. When that happens, it is bad news.
I think I got this from bad astronomy that has moved to the discover magazine web site.
blogs.discovermagazine.com...




posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
consider how strong it needs to rain for floods to subdue land. god chose the flood because of its thoroughness. not because it made people suffer


So, why didn't he just dissolve everyone? Why did he take out his anger on the animals as well?

Originally posted by miriam0566
free will. joseph´s family decided to go to egypt. the pharaoh decided to use them as slave and he also decide not to let them go.

i get the feeling you are presuming that pharaoh was innocent.. if he was, he would have let them go before the plagues.

No, I don't think Pharoah was innocent. Just like I don't think the USA was innocent when we brought in our own slaves. But I do think it is strange that God hardened Pharoah's heart so that he wouldn't let the people go. What does that mean to you?


Originally posted by miriam0566
lol so you give up? you say oh well, its impossible...

the bible is like a rubiks cube. every doctrine and principle and truth is back up by other scripture. you know your missing something when the picture isnt complete.

Give up? No, I haven't. I was stating a fact, that's all. I've been searching for truth for around 10 years now, but it's not easy to find. I used to be a christian. I even lived as a missionary for over 2 years. Things happened to cause me to begin searching. You are right, the Bible is like a rubiks cube. I never could figure out one of those either.


Originally posted by miriam0566eccl 9:5,10 says the dead do not think. they are ¨conscience of nothing at all¨

so having the hellfire believe creates an incomplete picture.

just because alot of people dont put 2 and 2 together, doesnt mean you cant.

The dead will be raised for judgement, then thrown into the lake of fire. They aren't there right now. If you read Revelation, which is also in the Bible, you'll see that. It even says that the Lake of Fire was created by God for the fallen angels, not for man. But since man became sinners, they too will be thrown in there. It is in the Bible, in Revelation. And see, that's how I interpret it, and I can back it up. You interpret it a different way, but you can back it up too, I'm sure. So, who's right? A lot of people put 2 and 2 together, but get different answers. And, if God once destroyed everyone by water, why not by fire as well?

[edit on 6-9-2008 by Hydroman]

[edit on 6-9-2008 by Hydroman]



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

So, why didn't he just dissolve everyone?


If he had, I'm sure that there would be someone today asking, "Why didn't he just flood the earth to destroy the wicked?" lol



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Hydroman
I thought it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. That seems like it would be a gradual raise in the flood waters. Sure, some places might experience flash flooding, but not all.


consider how strong it needs to rain for floods to subdue land. god chose the flood because of its thoroughness. not because it made people suffer



I understand that. But you still seem to miss the point about God making people suffer. If he is ALL powerful, why not pick his people up out of Egypt and place them where he wants them instead of going through all the trouble of killing/torturing the egyptians? Or better yet, why not keep them from being held captive to begin with?


free will. joseph´s family decided to go to egypt. the pharaoh decided to use them as slave and he also decide not to let them go.

i get the feeling you are presuming that pharaoh was innocent.. if he was, he would have let them go before the plagues.



This is your opinion. Do you know how many theories there are about this, from theologians to Priests, to all kinds of educated people? And each one of them can probably back up their claim using the Bible according to how THEY interpret it. You too intepret it a certain way, therefore you come to the conclusion that you are right and everyone else who thinks differently is wrong. And you can back it up, just like they can. It is so confusing to me. This is also how all the different christian denominations came about. Everyone interprets the Bible certain ways and develop certain beliefs according to their interpretation. Who's got the right interpretation? Anyone? And if so, how do you know you have the right one?


lol so you give up? you say oh well, its impossible...

the bible is like a rubiks cube. every doctrine and principle and truth is back up by other scripture. you know your missing something when the picture isnt complete.

eccl 9:5,10 says the dead do not think. they are ¨conscience of nothing at all¨

so having the hellfire believe creates an incomplete picture.

just because alot of people dont put 2 and 2 together, doesnt mean you cant.


Hello Miriam...

Did not G-d harden pharaohs heart? Did he not do this so that he could show Yisrael his "wonders"? "I have hardened his heart so that he will not let them go..." That is not free will

Josephs family decided to go to Egypt, this is true, but they really had no choice. There was a famine 7 years wide that forced them to go to Egypt or they would have starved. When you are forced to do something, it is against your will. Free will is doing what you please like, worshiping a golden idol on a cross. People do that all day long with free will. They bow to it and pray, but it will not deliver them from the destroyer who is the very idol they worship. Those with ears to hear and eyes to see that DO the sayings uttered will be likened to a man who built his home on the rock.

The word for conscience is "yada", as in "yada, yada yada". Your conscience is your moral regard. When a person is scattered (dies) with no heir, the conscience is scattered to the wind having not put themselves on the cross of self denial, so that they might raise a new generation.

Your conscience is your make up of past generations, built on the spirit of what they instilled in you. The spirit of them is in you as "You are the kingdom of heaven" and they are the "El"ders that give you conscience instruction, ability, power, talent...In resurrection, they are no longer hidden from you, but are caught up with you in your head, so that you realize where this information comes from...."They shall live, together with my body, shall they be raised"...



H3045 yada` yaw-dah' a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively, instruction, designation, punishment, etc.) (as follow):--acknowledge, acquaintance(-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, (un-)awares, can(-not), certainly, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be (ig-)norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have (knowledge), (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have (understanding), X will be, wist, wit, wot


40 is a birth cycle and is always spent in the "desolate". You are inside a womb, alone from the outside. There are three critical trimesters in a birth cycle, or 3 temptations to abort or 9 Holies spoken...be hollowed into the body oh spirit....

The Lord is always speaking to you, not the earth. Light appeared on the first day and the luminaries on the 4th. Why? See below.

Genesis...Gehenna

He vibrates over the face of the waters...in glory (orgasm)

Day one: sperm penetrates egg. "Let there be light"

Day two: division of cells. "Firmament"

Day three: cells start making parts each "according to its kind". "Verdue"

Day four: brain function and eyes given for signs and appointments for days and years... he bestows these in the atmosphere where your head is placed, yet the earth is your footstool. "Luminaries and Stars"

Day five: brain begins recognizing external influence. "Monsters=Tan..to elongate"

Day six: rush to the hospital water just broke and son of man is about to be born and be named. Must be born of water and blood, not just dieing (blood). "Then the Gods (Elohim...Elder of him) said, let us make man in our own image after our own likeness"

Day Seven: Today..."Rest" Sabbath....meaning "Do no preaching to one another"...."In that day, no one will say "Know the lord" for he will be in the midst of them"

Now the "Seventh is also the Eighth and is going to perdition"...See day one.

"How can I explain heavenly things when you do not even understand earthly things?"

"My salvation is Generation to Generation forever..."....The Holy One

Peace



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 06:50 PM
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Th Trinity can be understood like this:- water can take three forms, solid (ice), gas (water vapour) and as a liquid. They are all H2O but take three forms.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lostinspace
 

There is a hidden planet.
Our sun is one of a twin star system. The other star has gone dead but it still has at least one planet that orbits it. Every once in a while, that planet crosses paths with our planet. When that happens, it is bad news.
I think I got this from bad astronomy that has moved to the discover magazine web site.
blogs.discovermagazine.com...


What if we are the hidden star...? Nature shows that things are birthed, perhaps planets birth also?

Peace



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 



The death of the wicked was not the main objective for the Deluge. The Flood came to change a natural law. God's purpose would not come to completion for a few thousand years, so sin was here to stay. Many types of governments were going to be tried out and then eventually fail. If the Deluge never came then some of those bad dictators would still be in office to this day. Imagine if people like Hitler ruled for a thousand years, before old age could catch up with him.

The animals suffered because mankind was behaving worse than expected. God had to cut the time shorter because the righteous were being corrupted after a while. God made the earth and all in it good, in the beginning. The ecosystem was perfectly balanced to sustain life. It sustained life too good for wicked minds. That ecosystem had to be altered so our misery would be ended sooner.

Hey "letthereaderunderstand" I like the pictures you posted. Did you see the "devils post piles" in California? They're the same type of formation.


[edit on 6-9-2008 by lostinspace]



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Jmdewey60,

I'm familar with the twin star theory. I just don't hold much stock in that idea. The only purpose a roving dark star would do for our solar system is to scatter the asteroids and cause real harm to our world. I accept the thought that we are in a singular sequence star system with seven as its atomic weight.

-lostinspace



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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And what about the all the 'gospels' that were purposefully left out of the bible, like the nostic texts which paint JC in a very different light. Some say that he was simply God in human form and others say he was just a man and that he had a personal bond with God, one which other people had the capabilities of besting, that other people could preform greater miracles. Even the bible goes that way sometimes.

Which do we believe? Only difference is that one was endorsed and the others weren't so they were destroyed.

I'm more inclined to believe he was just a man.

Even the bible doesn't really purport him to be God incarnate. Jesus talks about God in the 3rd person, to God in the second person, and asks questions of God when he's by himself. God at one point talks about Jesus in the third person and at another stage, sends the holy spirit to lead Jesus to another place signifying that Jesus doesn't know the way there.

These beings are not the same, at best one could only say that they are in cahoots, nothing more.

And to say that God regressed into human form thus his distinction and limitations- God is supposedly an all powerful being would over come such limitations because if they stand they erode the soundness of the acounts.

If God appeared to me now he could, should ane would appear with his full mental and supernatural faculty.

(He would also appear as he does in God, the Devil and Bob cos he'd know I'd find that amusing.



posted on Sep, 6 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by Circle
Th Trinity can be understood like this:- water can take three forms, solid (ice), gas (water vapour) and as a liquid. They are all H2O but take three forms.

One does not create or give birth to or begets the other.
One does not exist while the other exists.(at least not for very long)
This is no way to understand the Trinity, at all, unless you do not believe in the trinity.
Believing that God is the Father and then becomes the Son and then the Spirit, or whatever kind of sequence you want to understand it as, is not a belief in the Trinity.
People who get brought into this type of belief system apparently do not understand this or are not properly in formed by their "leaders".
You need to go to Wikipedia or some objective source and find out exactly what philosophy you have been taken in by.


[edit on 6-9-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
So, why didn't he just dissolve everyone? Why did he take out his anger on the animals as well?


why does god allow man to eat animals? animals are not equal to man.

besides, there is more to salvation that merely ¨dissolving¨ the wicked. remember that noah was a sinner too, and so technically ¨wicked¨. god provides opportunity for people to show just how much they want to be saved.

for noah it was building the ark and packing it with animals. the people of noah´s day where intermingled with fallen angels and bearing them kin. there was no doubt about the truthfulness of noah´s proclamations. they could have helped noah, but they didnt. they took ¨no note¨ until the waters came.

it wasnt until they were facing their death that survival suddenly became a concern to them.



No, I don't think Pharoah was innocent. Just like I don't think the USA was innocent when we brought in our own slaves. But I do think it is strange that God hardened Pharoah's heart so that he wouldn't let the people go. What does that mean to you?


god knew that pharaoh would refuse before hand. so god ¨let pharaohs heart harden¨.

its a mistranslation. basically, the hebrew is expressing a permission of course.



Give up? No, I haven't. I was stating a fact, that's all. I've been searching for truth for around 10 years now, but it's not easy to find. I used to be a christian. I even lived as a missionary for over 2 years. Things happened to cause me to begin searching. You are right, the Bible is like a rubiks cube. I never could figure out one of those either.


then put it together. if we are all sinners, then noone is ¨innocent¨. when god displayed his hand, he was within his right



The dead will be raised for judgement, then thrown into the lake of fire. They aren't there right now. If you read Revelation, which is also in the Bible, you'll see that. It even says that the Lake of Fire was created by God for the fallen angels, not for man. But since man became sinners, they too will be thrown in there. It is in the Bible, in Revelation. And see, that's how I interpret it, and I can back it up. You interpret it a different way, but you can back it up too, I'm sure. So, who's right? A lot of people put 2 and 2 together, but get different answers. And, if God once destroyed everyone by water, why not by fire as well?


if you believe that the lake of fire is for torture, then tell me. where is adam now?

gen 3:[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

adam was nonexistant before he was born, and he is nonexistant after he died. this is harmony with the script from eccl i quoted. its in harmony with what jesus said about lazarus sleeping. its in harmony with the fact that God is love, and wouldnt torture us for an eternity for 80 years of vice.

even ¨death¨ is thrown into the lake of fire

rev 20:[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

jesus refered to the lake of fire as gehenna which was an obvious metaphor for destruction, not torture.

so while you are able to interpret, and back up your thoughts on it, is you rubiks cube complete? or is there a few colors that dont fit?

if there is a belief of doctrine that conflicts with other parts of the bible, then there are 2 possibilities, either the doctrine is wrong, or something is not being taken into account.

read my other threads when you get a moment. hellfire and eternal torment is not the fate of sinners.



posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
Free will is doing what you please like, worshiping a golden idol on a cross. People do that all day long with free will. They bow to it and pray, but it will not deliver them from the destroyer who is the very idol they worship. Those with ears to hear and eyes to see that DO the sayings uttered will be likened to a man who built his home on the rock.


free will is also serving god because you want to.

i like how you worded worshiping the idol. its sadly poetic


The word for conscience is "yada", as in "yada, yada yada". Your conscience is your moral regard. When a person is scattered (dies) with no heir, the conscience is scattered to the wind having not put themselves on the cross of self denial, so that they might raise a new generation.


ill quote the whole scripture

eccl 9:[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.[10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

the dead are just that.... dead. they do not think, or suffer, or delight. non-existance



posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by lostinspace
The death of the wicked was not the main objective for the Deluge. The Flood came to change a natural law. God's purpose would not come to completion for a few thousand years, so sin was here to stay. Many types of governments were going to be tried out and then eventually fail. If the Deluge never came then some of those bad dictators would still be in office to this day. Imagine if people like Hitler ruled for a thousand years, before old age could catch up with him.


ive often thought about this. some of the reasons i could think of for the flood -

- its an example for the ¨day of GOD¨ when his name is sanctified once and for all.

- its possible, that with the fallen angels and nephilim, that the world (satan´s) wouldnt last as long as god wanted it too. so it wouldnt proof satan a liar to the throughness that god purposed. so it had to be cleared again so that the nephilim wouldnt wreck everything.

just some thoughts



posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


You know what? I used to read all the JW literature that would end up at my house when I was a kid and used their Bible.
I used to think, "All this stuff seems reasonable, except for the nephalim thing." Well I have changed my mind about that recently. God did have to destroy the world, if for no other reason than to get rid of them.



posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by miriam0566
 


You know what? I used to read all the JW literature that would end up at my house when I was a kid and used their Bible.
I used to think, "All this stuff seems reasonable, except for the nephalim thing." Well I have changed my mind about that recently. God did have to destroy the world, if for no other reason than to get rid of them.


i always find noah´s account interesting because there is alot of insight about spiritual and physical phenomenon.

it almost intriguing that angels were able to materialize bodies that could impregnate a woman and that the result would be giants. what got me for awhile was that they were bad. i used to wonder if any of those giants would find favor with god, but the more i thought about it, the less it made sense. if humans were perfect, they wouldnt sin. they simple wouldnt have the inclination for it. the same rules wouldnt apply to a being that was not specifically designed by god.

in other words, there would be no perfect state for nephilim.

again, just another 2 cents



posted on Sep, 7 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566


god knew that pharaoh would refuse before hand. so god ¨let pharaohs heart harden¨.

its a mistranslation. basically, the hebrew is expressing a permission of course.


A mistranslation? That's not good. I wonder how many other things have been mistranslated? Why would God allow that?


Originally posted by miriam0566
if you believe that the lake of fire is for torture, then tell me. where is adam now?

gen 3:[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

adam was nonexistant before he was born, and he is nonexistant after he died. this is harmony with the script from eccl i quoted. its in harmony with what jesus said about lazarus sleeping. its in harmony with the fact that God is love, and wouldnt torture us for an eternity for 80 years of vice.

even ¨death¨ is thrown into the lake of fire

rev 20:[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

jesus refered to the lake of fire as gehenna which was an obvious metaphor for destruction, not torture.

People seem to mix up "hell" and "lake of fire". These are two different things. Death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire. So, hell can't be the lake of fire. What will happen to the fallen angels once they are thrown into the lake of fire? As far as where is Adam, that's hard for me to answer since I'm merely human. My guess is that his body is dissolved in the dirt, but his soul is where ever God wanted it to go. Matthew 10:28 says that God can destroy both body and soul. What does that mean exactly? Well, millions of people have their own opinion as to what that means.


Originally posted by miriam0566
so while you are able to interpret, and back up your thoughts on it, is you rubiks cube complete? or is there a few colors that dont fit?

if there is a belief of doctrine that conflicts with other parts of the bible, then there are 2 possibilities, either the doctrine is wrong, or something is not being taken into account.

read my other threads when you get a moment. hellfire and eternal torment is not the fate of sinners.

My rubix cube is all screwed up, like it was when I was a kid. Though sometimes I could solve one side of it.
It would be great if the lake of fire wasn't real. Then no one would have anything to worry about.

So, you're from Spain? I lived there in Santander for a year and a half. I worked with Centro Reto when I was following God. Have you ever heard of it?



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

A mistranslation? That's not good. I wonder how many other things have been mistranslated? Why would God allow that?


in alot of translations, errors like this are common. it clears it up abit when you look at the original transcripts.

however not everyone has that time or ability. but you can gleen alot from the context too (rubik´s cube). if god is love, then why would he force pharaoh to choose something that brings suffering to his people?

there are a few translations that render it that way..



People seem to mix up "hell" and "lake of fire". These are two different things. Death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire. So, hell can't be the lake of fire. What will happen to the fallen angels once they are thrown into the lake of fire? As far as where is Adam, that's hard for me to answer since I'm merely human. My guess is that his body is dissolved in the dirt, but his soul is where ever God wanted it to go. Matthew 10:28 says that God can destroy both body and soul. What does that mean exactly? Well, millions of people have their own opinion as to what that means.


remember...

¨...the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - gen 2:7 (notice it doesnt say ¨given¨)

if you go to here

www.belowtopsecret.com...

and read the questions, you´ll find that the immortal soul is incompatible with the bible.

¨The soul that sinneth, it shall die....¨- ezek 18:20

your completely right about death and hell being different than the lake of fire. but all the scriptures that people use to support ¨hellfire¨ are actually talking about the lake of fire, or gehenna.

the literal gehenna was a garbage dump that was used to burn refuse (sp?)

it was also where they threw the bodies of criminals not worthy of burial.

so consider this... (putting all the parts together)

- adam is a soul. - gen 2:7
- sinning souls die - ezek 18:20
- adam sinned and died - gen 5:5
- the dead do not think - eccl 9:5,10
- so adam is nonexistant.

another clue to figuring out the lake of fire is in rev 20:[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

how does the ¨second death¨ relate to things?

we are different from adam in that we are born into sin, which was given to us by him. (some people disagree with this point, but the evidence lies with the fact that i have yet to meet a perfect person)

jesus dies for our sin, paying an even ransom (perfect man for perfect man) - john 3:16

now this is the point. we are different from adam in that we have hope for resurrection

john 5:[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

so everyone gets resurrected. righteous and unrighteous.

acts 24:[15] And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

people that even after being resurrected, continue to refuse god, are cast into the lake of fire. in other words, they die a ¨second¨ time. dying the first time was nonexistance (which is why jesus said lazarus was sleeping), why would the second time be any different?

this highlights the difference between hell (hades, sheol) and the lake of fire (gehenna). ¨hell¨ is god´s memory. you are nonexistant, but you will be resurrected. the lake of fire is where you die (nonexistant) and you are forgotten.

big cube i know, but its worth looking at.



My rubix cube is all screwed up, like it was when I was a kid. Though sometimes I could solve one side of it.
It would be great if the lake of fire wasn't real. Then no one would have anything to worry about.

So, you're from Spain? I lived there in Santander for a year and a half. I worked with Centro Reto when I was following God. Have you ever heard of it?


im in seville, which clear on the other side (well, south). did you like it?



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 04:13 AM
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Yes I enjoyed Spain quite well. Santander is a beautiful part of Spain. I had the greatest view from my house. I could see the Cantabrian Sea to the north and mountains to the west. It was great.

If we are not conscious at death, how do you explain these verses?

1st Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

3:19 in which he also went and preached to the spirits in prison,

3:20 who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

How could Jesus preach to the spirits of those who were dead if they're not conscious as to what is going on?



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
Yes I enjoyed Spain quite well. Santander is a beautiful part of Spain. I had the greatest view from my house. I could see the Cantabrian Sea to the north and mountains to the west. It was great.


ive never actually been that far north.
i always wanted to go. the weather is so different too, im getting tired of the heat.

unfortunatly there is so many other place i want to visit first lol


If we are not conscious at death, how do you explain these verses?

1st Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

3:19 in which he also went and preached to the spirits in prison,

3:20 who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

How could Jesus preach to the spirits of those who were dead if they're not conscious as to what is going on?


very good question. i avoided getting into heaven and earth because its a subject unto its own and i didnt want to blast you with everything at once.

so, your question....

verse 20 makes a reference to noah. if you remember, spirits were involved in noah´s day.

gen 6:[2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
[4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

(job 1 and 2 refers to ¨sons of god¨ as angels, considering that the relations between these sons of god and women bore hybrid nephilim, theres every reason to think that ¨sons of god¨ in genesis is refering to angels, although it can refer to others, but ill get into that another time)

these angels, like adam, were perfect and then sinned. so it makes sense that god would do something about this.

2 peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

i quoted from the king james, again, there is a funny translation (happens alot with king james)

the original greek renders ¨hell¨ as tartarus.

Weymouth New Testament
For God did not spare angels when they had sinned, but hurling them down to Tartarus consigned them to caves of darkness, keeping them in readiness for judgement.

World English Bible
For if God didn't spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Young's Literal Translation
For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved,

now the reason why i think tartarus is a different place than hades is because the demons are active. they are alive, not nonexistant like those in hell. we know this from numerous examples of jesus expelling demons and even talking to them.

also too peter was using the appropriate greek since in ancient greek mythology tartarus was lower than hades and usually was used to emprison gods and titans. so any christians that had converted from a greek culture would understand that tartarus is different from hades.

anyway moving on. what tartarus actually is is only hinted in the bible. we know its a prison for demons (or fallen angels), we know its dark. the dark metaphor is used alot to denote separation from god.

1 sam 2:[9] He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

psalms 18:[28] For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

ezek 32:[8] All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.

matt 22:[13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

you get the point.

so these ¨spirits in prison¨ are not the dead. they are fallen angels.

in what way did he ¨preach¨

εκηρυξεν verb - aorist active indicative - third person singular
kerusso kay-roos'-so: to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel) -- preacher(-er), proclaim, publish.

the word here can also mean proclaim which is why some translations render it differently

International Standard Version (©2008)
in which he went and made a proclamation to those imprisoned spirits

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In it he also went to proclaim his victory to the spirits kept in prison.

Weymouth New Testament
in which He also went and proclaimed His Message to the spirits that were in prison,



posted on Sep, 8 2008 @ 05:13 AM
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Text1. You shall have no other gods before Me reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Suerly this in itself shows there are a pantheon of gods, if there were no other gods then the Yahwe could would not give the instruction not to worship them.

So given the fact that the Yahwe god clains that there other gods, how do jews and christians etc know for sure theirs is the right god.

At the end of the day the bible which was comissioned by constantine could have been influenced by one of these other gods .


It never fails to amaze me when supposedly smart people refuse to think for themselves.



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