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A contradiction in the bible

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posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


The trick is to decipher what is the truth in the bible and what has been manipulated by the RCC to suit its version of Christianity, and its power structure.




posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 


I think you are missing my point.
"The Church" did not "manipulate" the texts.
If there was any manipulation within the texts, themselves, it was done a long time before "The Church" got involved.
Back in the 730's AD, when the Bible was being compiled, the scholars were ethical pro's who sorted through the manuscripts, and would have identified and rejected "tampered with" scripts.
The main manipulation, by the Church, was in destroying competing books.
The Heretics were not sitting around and substituting a word, here and there, in the accepted books.
They went ahead and wrote complete books that reflected their ideology.



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 



The trick is to decipher what is the truth in the bible and what has been manipulated by the RCC to suit its version of Christianity, and its power structure.

I think the Bible, by itself, is pretty reliable, as much as can be expected for something of its type.
The tricky part is in how you choose from among other writings.
We have available to us now a wide variety of previously suppressed books.
It is quite possible for you to find some things of value in them.
I have, personally, for example, Paul does not go into all that great of detail into what things can be considered as prohibited behavior for Christians.
That would have been slightly off topic to Paul, who's main point was freedom in Christ.
There were books that were widely used in churches, that did give some pretty good advice.
Abortion is not talked about in the Bible, but it was a serious topic in the church because it was a common practice in the Roman Empire.
The church saw it as a terrific sin and pointed it out in books that church pastors used for preaching sermons.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I'm not missing the point. I'm basically thinking of what happened during the 4th century AD with the burning of all so-called heretical books. That was the form of manipulation. Also, the few lines that were added, like Peter being the Rock upon which the church would be built. And the final verse of Revalations:

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

Ironic, considering how the bible was put together.



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 


Don't take all this stuff too personally.
You probably understand all this stuff at least as well as I do.
I just have to consider other people who might be reading some of this.
I do not want to look like I am conceding to all these people out there who are ready to throw the Bible in the trash because they find something in it they do not like.

BTW when I look at big, long posts, my reaction is not even look at it, especially when the format is a big compressed bunch of writing with no break between different points and no proper attention to isolating quotes or external info.
I try to write things in a way I would like to be able to read, myself.
I tend to make statements in the most general way possible.
If people do not understand it, I go back and elaborate, a point at a time.
That is the way I would like to see things and I try to do that, myself.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Matrix1111
 



The trick is to decipher what is the truth in the bible and what has been manipulated by the RCC to suit its version of Christianity, and its power structure.


I think the Bible, by itself, is pretty reliable, as much as can be expected for something of its type.
The tricky part is in how you choose from among other writings.



It's reliable if you can put it into context of how it was developed. It was developed after the Council of Nicea in order to unify a Roman Empire that was going through shaky times. The motive of Constantine was to bring factions together, both Christian and Pagan. That's why the issue of Jesus being God was so important.

If Christianity was to pull the Roman Empire together, it would have to be as great, if not greater, than the current mythology-based religions of the time. As Roman Empire already had virgin-born half-man, half-gods, for Christianity to be able to compete against that Jesus would also have to be a virgin-born half-man, half-god. Hence, the outcome of the council was that Athanasius' version of the bible became what we use today.

Other issues that flavored the beliefs of Christians today is the inclusion of Paul's writings into the bible. Much of what Paul said contradicted what Jesus taught.

Does this mean the Bible is useless? No, it just means the Bible isn't the final word and should be used as a temporary substitute for "all the truth" that is to come. Then we will see clearly.


[edit on 7/25/2008 by Matrix1111]



posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 
A contradiction in the Bible.

There are many and for the most part, in my opinion mostly they are a book of fairy tales that have enslaved humanity for eons just like the Koran, Vedas, Guru Granth (that last one sounded like Klingon) and all the others.

These "religions" have blinded mankind's true spirituality and blinded him to his full potential and the fact that we are all part of a single whole and TOGETHER make up GOD or the isness.






[edit on 9-8-2008 by ofhumandescent]



posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by LDragonFire
 
A contradiction in the Bible.

There are many and for the most part, in my opinion mostly they are a book of fairy tales that has enslaved humanity for eons just like the Koran, Vedas, Guru Granth (that last one sounded like Klingon) and all the others.

These "religions" have blinded mankind's true spirituality and blinded him to his full potential and the fact that we are all part of a single whole and TOGETHER make up GOD or the isness.


We have had these religions you mentioned for over 2000 years, and what do we have to show for it? Nothing has divided us more in our history, and a bloody history it is, it's also our present. There is no telling what humans can achieve if we just come together as one, but as long as Allah and Jesus have a say this will never happen.



posted on Aug, 9 2008 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 


I starred you! Yes, we agree.


Other issues that flavored the beliefs of Christians today is the inclusion of Paul's writings into the bible. Much of what Paul said contradicted what Jesus taught.

Does this mean the Bible is useless? No, it just means the Bible isn't the final word and should be used as a temporary substitute for "all the truth" that is to come. Then we will see clearly.


The NT was set up to fail before it even got started! A lot of it was not even written by said authors and were written many, many years after Jesus.

It needs to be emphasized as much as possible; we don't know what the original writings say because they don't exist! Only copy after copy with the translators putting in, or substituting words and teachings they preferred. It started within the first century and continued on for centuries until organized into a canon by "other" biased religious controllers.

It will be an irony to see how God does deal with the hypocrisy in the writings of the Bible. I too believe that it only leads to the "real thing" being promoted now, by the "Real Deal!"



posted on Aug, 11 2008 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent

There are many and for the most part, in my opinion mostly they are a book of fairy tales that have enslaved humanity for eons just like the Koran, Vedas, Guru Granth (that last one sounded like Klingon) and all the others.

These "religions" have blinded mankind's true spirituality and blinded him to his full potential and the fact that we are all part of a single whole and TOGETHER make up GOD or the isness.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by ofhumandescent]


that could just be a fairy tale too



posted on Aug, 13 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Ah, I see another member of the vast, anti-God, conspiracy. haha

The trinity isn't a NT concept, it's an OT concept. If you don't believe, then crack your bible and start highlighting every instance of double and triple references, starting with Genesis, that God makes to himself/them. Look for plural references. Start with Is 61. Who is speaking? How do you explain the references in vs 1?

When you're done with this little assignment, then you can go back to the book of Deut Ch 5 and reread the 10 commandments.

To the honest person, this is a challenge that can't be resisted so don't just flail around in ignorance - go read it for yourself.

Now, on this silly assertion that religion is responsible for more division (by that I assume you mean deadly warfare) than anything else in the world, why don't you back that up with some facts? How many so-called religious wars have their been? I want a total and I want an estimate of the people killed. How many wars have been fought over religious ideology rather than territory? Since WWI and WWII swamp all other wars and since they were fought over territory, specifically the Germans and Japanese desire for more of it, your statement is just patently false on its face. How about the wars that countries conduct against their own people? Stalin killed 10's of millions for control, grabbed territory, and built a foundation for state-sponsored atheism. That certainly worked out well, didn't it? That carnage probably makes all other wars pale by comparison.

Much of this post is simply anti-God propaganda backed by nothing more than a shrill voice.



posted on Aug, 13 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Ichabod
 


I'm not anti God at all, I'm also not a blind sheep being lead by false prophets. I'm anti-religion.

As for your other points, lets recite the Crusades I - III, and the convert or die mentality of Christians throughout history IE: Christians murdered Indians.

But this thread isn't about that.

BTW Just who are YOU to Judge ME? Is that Not the Purpose of Your God? You have the pride to speak so freely in his name?



posted on Aug, 13 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Oh come now. Did I both assess and condemn you? That's what judgment is. Did someone say we were supposed to stop discerning right from wrong? You're attempting to quote what Jesus said, but in that example, he made everyone who was willing to stone the adulteress do a little self-assessment, to determine the right and wrong of their own actions. What do you think Jesus might have written in the dust during that little interchange?

The fact is, I didn't condemn you, I just pointed out that your assertion about religion is uninformed and ignorant in my opinion and I gave a couple of examples to back myself up, and asked you to back up your assertion. Get some numbers and get back to us. If you don't want to do that, then stop making assertions.

As far as my assertion that you are anti-God, I base that on your misrepresentation of his nature and the fact that you have attempted to use his law, which you evidently don't understand, to preemptively convict weaker people.

And stop yelling in your posts. Nobody is bullied by it. It's just the spirit of intimidation, another anti-God characteristic, and does nothing for a worthwhile discussion.



posted on Aug, 13 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by Ichabod
 


Do find it in your heart to forgive me, I was in a bad mood and frankly I'm sick of people jumping into this thread with things that have been posted over and over, like it was something new. I understand it's a large thread and truthfully I'm sick of the debate about it...

My mind was not changed with all of the arguments put forth.

The trinity is not monotheism. It has it's root squarely in paganism. And the religion has been corrupted by the Roman Catholic Church.

Jesus did not teach it:

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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In fairness to the christians, I can see it both ways. I can understand how the bible suggests that God, Jesus, and the holyspirit can be three names/faces/sides/incarnations/facets/personalities/personas/divisions [enter your prefered word] of one ethreal being but even when I was a christian, I saw it as unnecessary and pointless.

I believe a Jesus existed but as no more than an earthly preacher who had a small following like John, but for the sake of argument lets assume Jesus Christ (Yashua, the anointed) was the son of God and the messiah. What I can't reconcile is that he is said to actually be God. Why not just say Jesus was a man with God in place of his soul? It would be simpler, more reasonable and it would clear up the need for the trinity.

Also Jesus had complete a complete physical body which differentiates him from God but what the hell is the point of the Holy Spirit? God and the Holy Spirit come as exactly the same entity in the same form. Its like having 2 shortcuts to the same file on your desktop.

I never liked the trinity- mainly because it was an unnecessary distraction, Jesus said that a kingdom divided against itself is doomed to fall, and there loads of other faces of God other than the 3 in the trinity like the Angel of God, Angel of Death etc.


Good tread.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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If God in the OT is the one in the same as Jesus, why are they SO different in their actions? God in the OT destroyed those who disobeyed him, and several times he used one group of people to destoy another group of people. Jesus, on the other hand, came to earth to help sinners, such as the adultress. Remember her? Jesus saved her life by asking those without sin to cast the first stone. Does that sound like what God of the OT would have done? Also, there was the time when the soldier came to take Jesus to the trial when Peter stepped in and chopped the soldiers ear off. Jesus picked it up and healed the man. The God of the OT would have destroyed those people for going against him, not heal them. God destroyed those who disobeyed him, but Jesus taught to love your enemy and turn the other cheek, and forgive those who wrong you 70 x 7, etc. God is stated as being the same yesterday, today, and forever meaning that if that's how he was in the OT, that's how he'll always be.

And here's another question I'll just throw in for fun. Let's say that a man and wife have 3 children ages 2, 4, and 6, and the wife is also pregnant. The man and wife were caught breaking the law and it is found that they have also committed numerous other crimes. The law decides that the punishment will be to take them, along with their children, to the deepest part of the ocean and throw them in it, then leave. Wouldn't this punishment seem a little evil? Now multiply that times 100 million people or so. If man were to do that, and it is considered evil, what is it considered when God did it?

[edit on 31-8-2008 by Hydroman]

[edit on 31-8-2008 by Hydroman]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


I'll help illustrate your point:





From this page. That's the whole bible by the way.

[edit on 8/31/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 05:20 AM
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its inaccurate.

if you are going include being ¨responsible for the death¨ meaning actions you did that led to the death of someone. satan´s number would be higher.

by convincing eve of a lie, satan would be responsible 6 to 12 billion lives. so would adam and eve.

god´s executions were based on standards that the persons in fault knew about before hand. so you can say, he was just exercising his rights as per terms of life. the people would be responsible for their own deaths because of their actions.

if their children who are under their care died, they too that falls under the parents responsibility.

besides the fact that most if not all of these people who died in the OT will get a second chance when the resurrection of the ¨righteous and the unrighteous¨ occurs. satan cant provide the same.

the god of the OT was the same as the god of the NT. jesus was very clear what would happen to people who reject god, and the consequenses arent different from what happened in the OT



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


So let me get this strait. Satan tempts eve to steal the forbidden fruit (like the cookies from the cookie Jar). Your saying this was worse that God glassing entire race of people for being bad, in the most part for not following him.

God is still way out in front in this evil race.

The bible teaches that God was the same today as he was yesterday and will for ever be, except he doesn't go around killing innocent people, let alone entire races.

Whats more if he is unchangeable then why did he change his mind about destroying the world after the flood?

The god of the old testament hates people who don't follow him- he like a psycho child about humans, incredibly jealous and vengeful. Now you simply cannot reconcile the idea that He is the same being as Jesus.

No way, no how.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


there are so many half truths in your post that make it sound so plausible.

if you were walking home from a bar one night and you saw some people take a child, place him on altar, and light him while he was alive, would you tolerate that? or would you think that these people need to be stopped and brought to justice?

would you accept it and keep walking? or would you be repulsed?

these are the type of people god "glassed". Canaanites were known for sacrificing thier children, and you are going to say that god was having an ego trip?!?!

the people in noah's day were violent beyond anything. people had little regard for human life and this got very chaotic, and you going to say that god was wrong for putting an end to that?

god is not the evil one here. and painting a rosy picture of what the people were like isnt going to help you see that.

every account of god executing nations of people has been because things got TOO out of hand



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