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Originally posted by LDragonFire
1. You shall have no other gods before Me
There is no "contradictions" in the original texts, only in the translations of man. Study the bible and the original texts and find the undoctored truth.
"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8, KJV)
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by miriam0566
There just isn't sufficient evidence to prove that doctrine. It is credulity.
When you have one or two verses that would seem to support the trinity but then have a dozen or more that lean to a more common sense definition, then what is the most logical way to interpret something?
Armageddon is mentioned only once in the Bible in Rev.16:16 as Har-Magedon (Hebrew). But at least it is mentioned! As big as the trinity is - you would think that it would be mentioned at least once, somewhere in the Bible?
Originally posted by drevill
whilst the word trinity does nota ppear, the "doctrine" is sound that is 3 states of one God
John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
cross reference the word of God in
Rev 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
okay so we have so far The word (Jesus the Christ) being the creator of all things
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
So God is the creator ergo Christ is God
Acts 5:3-5
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
shows that the holy spirit is equated as God
also see
1 Corinthians 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
here it shows that the spirit gives to whom he will. Yet we know that all things are at the will of God.
the holy spirit took part in creation
Psalms 104:20
Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Isaiah 40
shows us that the holy spirit was NOT taught by anyone
Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him? 14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge,
job 21:22
Shall any teach God knowledge? seeing he judgeth those that are high
this is just a minute amount of evidence.
Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
There is only one God. The trinity comes from Sumer. Anu was the primary god of heaven, the "Father" and "King of the Gods". Enlil was the "wind-god", the God of the Earth and a creator and Enki was the god of waters and "Lord of Wisdom".
The Father on top as King of Heaven. Enlil is the wind god. Wind and spirit is connected through breath. Enki is connected to the sea, and mankind has always been likened to the sea.
The "Holy Trinity" of the Church is often depicted as the Allseeing Eye. A symbol that can be traced back to ancient Egypt. However it was adapted by the alchymists and later the Freemasons.
The Name of God is a word of 72 letters starting with JHVH/YHWH. Giving three names to three gods, brings us up to 216. Take 216 and multiply it with 666.666... and you get 144,000 the number of Jewish saints in the Book of Revelation. 144,000 is also the number of marble rocks that was once covering the Great Pyramid of Giza. These rocks made the whole construction waterproof, and my theory is that Satan and his angels survived the Flood inside it. They may have been 216 people...
Originally posted by miriam0566
question, where do you get the number 72?
is the name of god already told?
psalm 83:[18] That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
second question, if satan and his demons are spirit creatures, why would they need a building to survive the flood?
Jehovah was constructed by a Catholic monk in the early Middle Ages. It is not the correct reading of the Teragrammathon JHVH. The Tetragrammathon is not a proper name it is a mysterious name which when recited brings you into direct contact with God. According to the same tradition the Name of God was also an idol which was worshipped in the time of Enosh, the son of Seth.
"col 1:[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
stripture clearly states a course of events, jesus was created first (firstborn of creation) not possible if he was a trinity with a god who ¨had no beginning¨. verse 16 says ¨for by him¨ all things were created. so god designed the blueprints, but jesus pyshically made it. similiar to the relationship between architect and builder."
1 cor 8:[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
ONE god, OF whom are all things.
ONE jesus... BY whom are all things. 0
No need for that was there?
picture alittle more clearer?
also if you research john 1, you´ll find alot of translation render it as ¨and the word was a god¨
luke 1:41] And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
can a person fill another?
matt 3:[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
acts 10:[38] How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
can you anoint someone with a person? also if the trinity was true, why did god have to anoint him?
acts 10:[44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
can you pour a person?
ok so what about the fact that some scriptures personify it?
some quotes from proverbs 8 (all of chapter 8 is a good example)
[1] Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
[12] I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
[1] Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
so wisdom is a person now?
rom 5:[14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
death is something that happens
[21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
so sin is the queen maybe?
rom 6:[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
the holy ghost, or spirit is not a person.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by drevill
I appreciate all the work you have gone to. The irony is; the same scriptures you used can also be used to refute the Trinity. The Almighty has a name: Jah or Jehovah etc. Jesus was known as the Word before he became known as Jesus or Michael. They are all Gods! Jesus is a God also, but not the Almighty. No where does it say that he is, nor did he ever refer to himself as such. Look at it this way: Jah was the architect of the Universe while Jesus being his right hand man, was the builder. They both created and both are allowed the credit.
There are a lot of semantics involved and you have to convolute the scriptures to come up with that doctrine. And unfortunately it bogs the person down and prevents the person from gaining more important insight. If something does not make sense - it usually isn't.
Jesus said that; "men would make commands of men as doctrines." Of course the primary doctrines taught by Christianity are; the trinity, the cross, immortality of the human soul, and hellfire, all of which have very pagan backgrounds. Do you honestly believe that The Gods would adulterate their truth with that?
My question is, and has always been, "WHY?" Why are these doctrines so darn important to believe, and teach? Why is it so important to believe that all 3 are 1 literally? (Have you ever asked yourself that?) How can we ever relate to Jesus if he was in essence part of a "borg?" Why could they not all be individual? I have not met one person yet who could justify all these doctrines in a believable way, and I have talked to the best or most educated in theology. As I said earlier; it is all credulity.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by J.Smit
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Go therefore, and teach all the world in the name of Peter Johnson. Maggie Johnson and Michael Johnson. You do not pluralize "name" in this sense! Because they all have the same last name. Otherwise, you would say follow in the examples of; Cohn, Johnson and Andrews.
Or go baptizing them in the name of the Corinthian Congregation! Only a foolish one would think that the congregation is made up of only one!
Do you get the point? This is why it has always been so easy to refute doctrines taught by religions that really do not make any sense.
I realize it challenges you, but just reason on it and perhaps you can see it from a more natural viewpoint.
Originally posted by drevill
if i have ever heard a misquote ....... obviously the holy spirit is not physical. have you ever been filled with Joy.dread,hope,anger,upset,hurt, et al?
Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Who said they were spirit creatures? In my opinion they are as much flesh and blood as you and me, and they still roam this planet.