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Ослабленный и уязвимый < > Weakened and Vulnerable

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posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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As the U.S. continues to sustain large military operations around the world and especially in the Middle East and with growing potential for new conflicts and wars is it not wise to suspect the Russians role in all of this?

Before and even during the current Iraq war and invasion the Russians were assisting the Iraqis. With Iran that is even more of an issue. Do the Russians have more than economic concerns with its ties to old and potential new U.S. enemies?

Is it possible that the old Soviet Union hard-line ideologies have returned anew?

The cold war returns, Russia again makes threats, flies nuclear bombers and aids enemies of the West. If so and once again the U.S.A. is Russia's main adversary and their goal is to be able to defeat us, then having the U.S. military spread thin with multiple conflicts, multiple war fronts, multiple enemies, economic recessions and possible disabling terrorist attacks within the U.S.A. which if all came to pass could leave the U.S.A. extremely weakened and vulnerable. But if all of that happens, it could just be circumstance and simply the cost of this war on terrorism right?

If there is a broader Middle East conflict involving the U.S.A., Israel, Syria and Iran, terrorist attacks inside the U.S.A. involving weapons of mass destruction leaving the country economically paralyzed and possibly scrambling to simply keep the government functioning... Can you imagine how weakened and vulnerable we'd be then?

Perhaps we should ask the Russians?

But of course they could never be smart enough to orchestrate such a genius plan to bring down their 'former enemy' could they?

[edit on 28-9-2007 by UM_Gazz]




posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 09:31 PM
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Its possible that the Soviet Union hard-line ideologies never went away, but was hidden just under the surface.

On one hand with Afghanistan and Iraq under US military occupation. The USA has taken steps to box in the former Soviet Union.

We helped finance bin-laden to fight the Russians, wouldn't be interesting if the Russians used bin-laden or at least his group to attack the USA

On the other hand look at the new Russian weapons systems coming online.
1 new assault rifle AN-94 rifle
2 new air defense systems S-400
3 new anti-ship missile systems ss-n-22 sunburn
4 new mobile ICBM Topol RS-12 SS-X-27
30 new weapon systems enter service in Russian army

If they can hit us First from inside the USA, it along with these new weapon systems would really give them a advantage.



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 09:32 PM
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Weakened and vulnerable

I would agree that the US military is "weakened and vulnerable"...

But that's not saying America is "weakened and vulnerable".




posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic
Weakened and vulnerable

I would agree that the US military is "weakened and vulnerable"...

But that's not saying America is "weakened and vulnerable".



So, would that be correct that you're suggesting citizens (based on arms, or whatever) of U/S aren't weakened and vulnerable and can be able to take over the government if they wish to do so to this day?


What if the President of U/S orders to execute the citizens and such?

Do you also mean that U/S Military cannot stop the amount of large gangs that exist in America?

Thanks for reading this.


[edit on 28-9-2007 by TheoOne]



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 09:39 PM
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Personally I think the US dug itself into this hole. After the cold war ended, being the world's only superpower has gotten to their heads. The Russians are just taking advantage of the situation, as would any other would-be power. But that's just my opinion.



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic
But that's not saying America is "weakened and vulnerable".


Not yet anyway.

This is a big IF... The U.S.A. gets involved in a war with Iran, and potentially with Syria while radical islamists some how obtain nuclear devices and detonate them inside the U.S.A. in cities such as Washington or New York City... a series of potentially paralyzing attacks which could bring economic collapse failures in government and leadership of this nation combined with an already spread thin military... again can you imagine just how weakened and vulnerable we'd be?



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 09:57 PM
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WE, as in your everyday red blooded American, did not dig our own hole. WE, and yes I am taking liberties by speaking for the simple man, WE would rather bring everyone home and get to fixen' our own damn country rather than running around sticking our noses, guns and bombs into everybody elses business.
If Russia devised the Perfect Storm, for the love of God, I hope they take it out on the politicians and corporate dictators.
I honestly just want to have a healthy, happy, productive, knowledgable life for my children and my extended family.
WTF is wrong with this world??? What is the point of all this death?? Why cant we just be left alone to live our lives??



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic
Weakened and vulnerable

I would agree that the US military is "weakened and vulnerable"...

But that's not saying America is "weakened and vulnerable".



I agree that the military is "weakened and vulnerable"

America IMHO is not as powerfull as you might think, our economy is weakened the Fed has pumped more billions into our economy in the last 6-8 weeks than following 9/11, bankruptcy's, home foreclosers, and the weakened dollar makes for bad combinations.

Any sort of WMD attack here in the right location could give potential enemy's of the USA the confidence and opportunity to deal serious blows to us.



[edit on 28-9-2007 by LDragonFire]



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by Infoholic
But that's not saying America is "weakened and vulnerable".


Not yet anyway.

This is a big IF... The U.S.A. gets involved in a war with Iran, and potentially with Syria while radical islamists some how obtain nuclear devices and detonate them inside the U.S.A. in cities such as Washington or New York City... a series of potentially paralyzing attacks which could bring economic collapse failures in government and leadership of this nation combined with an already spread thin military... again can you imagine just how weakened and vulnerable we'd be?


SO this is just a big IF. I could come up qith an equally plausible bi IF, that Aliens are trying to engineer the US's defeat. This is just another of many fantasy scenarios, which aren't plausible.



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by TheoOne
So, would that be correct that you're suggesting citizens (based on arms, or whatever) of U/S aren't weakened and vulnerable and can be able to take over the government if they wish to do so to this day?

Absolutely... provided you don't keep apathy into the equation.


Originally posted by TheoOne
What if the President of U/S orders to execute the citizens and such?

That's an awful lot of freedom loving Americans to execute. It'll be a bit difficult considering the numbers just aren't there to support a total military takeover of the US.


Originally posted by TheoOne
Do you also mean that U/S Military cannot stop the amount of large gangs that exist in America?

Not a chance in hell. It's just like fighting the war on terror... you can't fight something you can't touch.



Originally posted by beachcoma
Personally I think the US dug itself into this hole.

It was the Administration that dug "US" into a hole... not the US... well.... except for the apathetic ones. Wait!? That's well over 2/3's the population.




Originally posted by UM_Gazz
This is a big IF...

The only if is "if" the American populous can be lied to again... which I already know that's a high probability with the apathy that runs deep in the US's veins.



Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
WE, as in your everyday red blooded American, did not dig our own hole.

Sure we did. Apathy's a real pain in the butt.

Get everyone involved, and educated... and see what happens.



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by Infoholic
 


Apathy plays a part BUT that is also due to our conditioning, which most Americans are unaware of.
We have been manipulated, seduced and lied to for generations. My generation (Gen X) was programmed by our parents and our parents by their parents and so on and they were all programmed by an evil, greedy shadowy group that for some messed up reason is still going full force after all these years.
So now I am wide awake after 30 years of believing in the American dream, believing in Democracy, believing in my history books, I am awake, I am smelling the coffee, I am no longer apathetic, now what?? Should I call my congressman? Should I open my window and start screaming the truth? Should I join a peaceful protest that NOBODY finds out about because it is only covered for a 2 second negative clip on your evening news? What should we do, exactly?
The sad truth is we are not a free country and unless by some miracle the meek have some good, powerful, very deep pocketed group hanging out just waiting for the right time (which is NOW if that group may be reading this, we need your help NOW) to help us out we will continue down the same path. Maybe our teaching our children what we now know is the bright light at the end of the very scary tunnel.

I am just so incredibly frustrated with Americans being the "evil" in the world, American's do not want war, we do not want to be invaded, we do not want to die, we just want to live. It is our oppresive government lackys and that shadowy other group, NOT AMERICAN'S.
And if anyone starts up with the whole "Well you voted for them" and they actually believe that the election's were fair and balanced I have an incredible peice of oceanfront property.....

Anyway I am not by any means defeated and I am not trying to attack anyone.
I am just frustrated, I am tired and I am scared but I am still an American.



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 10:47 PM
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Don't forget Gary Hart just wrote a letter to Iran
basically saying the United States has a history of false flag terrorism.

Presuming that you are not actually ignorant enough to desire war with the United States, you might be well advised to read the history of the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana harbor in 1898 and the history of the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964.

Having done so, you will surely recognize that Americans are reluctant to go to war unless attacked. Until Pearl Harbor, we were even reluctant to get involved in World War II. For historians of American wars the question is whether we provoke provocations.


Don't forget Russia and China just put a two month delay on the new Iranian sanctions.

Russia and China opposed an early move to tighten economic sanctions, saying Tehran should be given more time to cooperate with the IAEA to shed light on its past activities


Also the new information on how Saddam wanted to take the 1 billion dollar exile deal before we invaded.

And how 6 prominent U.S. scientists are saying the missile defense shield planned for Poland and the Chezch Republic would indeed be able to intercept Russian rockets.


But the six scientists _ whose backgrounds include elite American universities, research labs and high levels of government _ said in interviews that Russia's concerns are justified.

"The claim by the Missile Defense Agency is not correct," says Theodore Postol, a physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a longtime missile defense critic. "And it is hard to understand how they could get something so basic wrong."


This is just like 2 days worth of developements,It's heating up fast.Why would Russia and China want to delay a 3rd set of sanctions on Iran?War planning is my thought,wich is scary as hell.What other logical reason is there?Ahmadinejad himself said at the last U.N meetings a few days ago that nuclear negotiations are closed.

Edited a million times to make it shorter.

[edit on 28-9-2007 by Project_Silo]



posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
I am just so incredibly frustrated with Americans being the "evil" in the world, American's do not want war, we do not want to be invaded, we do not want to die, we just want to live. It is our oppresive government lackys and that shadowy other group, NOT AMERICAN'S.


America has lost a great deal of respect on a global scale. But at home most Americans are quite content to remain largely oblivious to the many threats aligned and poised to destroy the very comforts that provide their oblivion.

There are many theories about who or what exactly is the cause of the rising crises which seem to be drawing our nation deeper into wars and conflicts. While we fight in the name of peaceful democracy and security there could be the creation of benefit and opportunity for a nation we once seen as our primary threat and enemy.



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 01:50 AM
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America's involvement in the ME since the 1980's has been one of disrupting the Russian Southern flank. Another major goal is to disrupt the region enough that India will not ally with either China or Russia, thus leaving them open to an American-oriented alliance.

America may indeed be over-extended. Yet we are also coming a long way in tightening a noose around Russia. From the post-cold NATO, that has enveloped previous soviet satelite states, to the large number of pro-american muslim ex satelites, to troops in Turkey, Azerbaijan, Turkmen, Georgia, Makedonia, etc., to new friendliness with curds that cuts across national boundaries, to troops in afghanistan and Iraq, the US is poised to be a genuine threat, militarily, to russia.

Think for a minute about the hatred between paki and india. And yet they are both pro-US. That is a bigger headache to putin than most americans and west europeans can really grasp.



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
America may indeed be over-extended. Yet we are also coming a long way in tightening a noose around Russia.


Not entirely, But if there happens to be a war like escalation in the ME with Iran and possibly Syria over-extended could be an understatement. Then there is a potential crisis over Taiwan, could the US military possibly honor its promise to the Taiwanese people to defend them against Chinese aggression while dealing with the ME? Then we also have to expect some kind of retaliation from Iranian, or other radical Islamic terrorist groups who have promised retaliation on American soil if either Iran or Syria are attacked. These are all highly probable scenarios and as a result I bet you that Putin and many top former soviet era leaders are all smiling.



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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Personally Im happy if the Russian challenges the USA conquest for global supremacy. Its the power balance between nations that keeps things in check.

Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. Dont forget that its USA that started this with invading the middle east. Now Bush is putting weapons in space to be able to strike at any country when he wants.


[edit on 29-9-2007 by Copernicus]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 09:14 AM
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In some ways the United States now being seen as an aggressor, an evil, by much of the world and its continued threat of military intervention anywhere seems to somewhat mirror the rise and fall of the Nazi Third Reich and the failure of Hitler to realize how weakened and vulnerable his homeland had become, to the end he refused to believe that his armies had been weakened to the point where he could be surrounded by Russian army.

How much of your local national guard are deployed and on active duty now?

If the United States continues to advance on the principles of military supremacy and uses its military power to invade any nation perceived to be a threat to security, to claim control over large oil reserves the United States could face a similar fate as the Nazi regime.

A few well placed 'terrorist nukes' inside the USA, a well planed Chinese invasion of Taiwan and aggression from Iran and Syria could be a means to an end, at least for the once ultimate world's super power. In the end China and Russia may be the world's top super powers.

How many war fronts can the USA simultaneously sustain and for how long?



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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The world did not rise up against Hitler and the Nazi till they Invaded the Third nation[Poland]. Germany then went on to engage the world with a Three front war. Africa, Europe, Russia, As already stated Hitler did not take seriously that Germany was weakened from fighting this type of war. Then they Lost, thank God.

The USA is currently fighting a War on Drugs, War on Terror. We have Invaded two countries with rumors of attacking others [Iran, Syria] we are being nickel and dimed to death being the worlds policeman.

The worst case scenario. USA attacks Iran's nuclear facilities, Iran retaliates by attacking ships both civilian and military in the Gulf effectively shutting down shipping in the region. The US and any allies use air strikes to attack Iran's missile units with some success but not 100% success, continuing the shut down of the gulf.

Economies around the world suffer as oil prices sky rocket and stock markets go crazy.

Our leaders state publicly that all is well and the operations will be over in a matter of weeks.

Iran and Syria starts to infiltrate Iraq with thousands of troops and start attacking US ground forces in a typical Guerrilla style conflict.

Three countries to watch if such a senario presents itself.
1. Will North Korea launch a all out attack against Seoul South Korea, knowing full well that the USA is weakened and most or all resources will be focused on the middle east.
2 Will China take this opportunity to attack Taiwan knowing full well the USA can't honor all commitments at this point.
3 Will all the above or even most of the above give Russia reasons to launch a surprise attack against the American homeland using terrorists style attacks with WMD inside America.

[edit on 29-9-2007 by LDragonFire]

[edit on 29-9-2007 by LDragonFire]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Interesting scenario. In any case, if USA attacks Iran and drags the middle east into a war, there is no question that the morally correct choice would be for the other super powers and other countries to attack the USA. Now, I dont dislike americans at all, or any other nationality on this planet, but USA must be stopped in its conquest for world domination and the New World Order, New American Century and whatever else they call it.

I really hope it doesnt come to that, but its in Bush hands now. Which is why im worried.

Question is, could the USA handle being attacked by Russia, China, Japan and many other countries at once? And would it accept defeat, or would it set off all its nuclear weapons to destroy most of the planet?


[edit on 29-9-2007 by Copernicus]



posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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Насладил вашим русским

Russia has so many of it's internal problems. The USSR fell apart for a reason. Russia is starting to do military actions it hasn't done in years, in part to bolster the morale of the Russian Military. Military equipment laying around, unused, also has a tendency to become defective or unusable due to lack of maintenance. They are in no position for a full war, a regional war, yes, but full war, no. They would have to resort to the nuke option far sooner than the USA.

The cold war with Russia will not happen again. China is a far more powerful player and will not be Moscow's lap dog, again. This is great military gaming but the realities are wrong.

Do not believe everything you read or hear in the media about our military. The military leaders always cry "we need more" because it is money and power for them. Our very basis of military structure is to fight 2 full wars at one time. People forget this. If TSHTF in Korea, at this very moment, there is manpower to handle that regional conflict also.

America isn't weaken, the public is hearing the wrong information from the peacenicks and anti-Bush people of this generation. People are being blasted everyday by 500 cable channels, the Internet, and printed media. Many of these organizations are really ran by just a few individuals who have their own agenda, not favoring America or the current President.

The economics of America swings from feast to famine, and we have been feasting for a long time. A recession is overdue. Millions of people who should not have received home loans did, now banks have to do something about bad loans. There are still help wanted signs posted with many jobs being unfilled. Employment and growth doesn't happen in bad times. This is how capitalism works.

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