Element 115 question

Originally posted by jra
Bob didn't hide it in a secure place or something?

Oh I bet he did, I heard he may have hid it in the desert , wrapped up in his MIT degree, noone will ever find that for sure, I would think that's fairly secure. And even Bob only "probably" knows where it's buried.

Interestingly enough I heard someone has recently spotted Stanton Friedman toting a shovel and a map marked "Eyes Only" out in said desert.

John claimed to witness the 115 experiments. John was the one who claimed to have video evidence. John claims he knows where it was hidden, and might still be. These are questions for John, not Lazlar. He doesn't own it... he stole it by his own admission. These are claims John is making, not Lazlar. I would have a hundred other questions for him if he had a forum. These are fair questions, He may be a conduit for other info, but by his own admission he claims to know these things first hand.





[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

Originally posted by CTS32
John claimed to witness the 115 experiments. John was the one who claimed to have video evidence. John claims he knows where it was hidden, and might still be. These are questions for John, not Lazlar. He doesn't own it... he stole it by his own admission. These are claims John is making, not Lazlar. I would have a hundred other questions for him if he had a forum. These are fair questions, He may be a conduit for other info, but by his own admission he claims to know these things first hand.





[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

And your point is?

He's answered the questions. Is your problem that they aren't the answers you want?

Well, they are the answers we get, so that's that I guess.

Springer...

Originally posted by johnlear
And number 5, and most important of all, regardless of what you personally believe, I have told the story exactly as I remember it happening.

In fact, I actually believe you that you tell the story as you remember it happening. Because by now I think the most likely explanation for the whole mess is that you've been had big time by Bob Lazar!

Maybe it went this way: For whatever reason, Bob had the idea to get big in the "UFO business". And he knew you were (a) already somewhat of a "celebrity" in the field, and (b) ... err ... easily convinved (i.e. gullible). So he told you a big yarn of Element 115, saucers and all this. He made up impressive-sounding pseudo-physics ("Gravity A", decay to anti-matter, etc.) for "115". He knew that you have no clue at all about nuclear physics, so you wouldn't doubt anything he said. He fabricated three specimens out of some junk, and said it was "115". He even showed you a little experiment with an alpha emitter and a self-made fog chamber. The experiment, by the way, doesn't prove anything at all, except that the alleged alpha emitter did indeed contain a radioactive substance. There is no way such an experiment can determine the actual composition of a test sample! Anyway, you believed everything Bob said. Finally, two of the three "115" pieces were "conveniently" lost, and the third one was to be "hidden forever". Scam completed!

Since then, Bob has possibly regretted the whole stunt. That could be the reason why he isn't talking about UFOs etc. anymore. His business is running, because he never betrayed any government secret. Fooling a bunch of "believers" isn't illegal.


Anyway, of course I can't proof my little storyline. However, although it may have a few holes, it looks a lot more plausible than what you present, John. Not the least because it can at least explain why Bob Lazar, the alleged traitor of a major secret, can still do classified business with the government.

I have stated many times that I have no proof.

Well, you have proof. This single piece of alleged "Element 115". Get it, chop off a small bit, and have it analyzed! By several institutions! Are you afraid of the result? Is there a hint of suspicion in you, that you may have been had? In fact, you have nothing to lose. If this substance is shown to be element 115, you will be remembered for the rest of the future by all mankind. If it is only ordinary junk, you can admit it and (re-)gain a lot of respect for that.

But by simply saying "No, I won't this!" for the phony (and self-contradicting) reasons you stated, the whole Lazar/S4/Element115 story collapses like a house of cards - together with your credibility!

Regards
yf

I think it is fair to say that you will not get ANY physical evidence from these conspiracy theorists since they don't even try to present their alleged physical evidence.


There always be excuses such as 'it was stolen by the MIB', 'it simply dissapeared', 'you guys are not open minded enough', 'my dog ate it' or when they have run out of excuses they would simply say:

"If I had it, would the government let me tell the world about it?"

Huh? Which shows they don't even TRY to proof any of their alleged physical evidence.

Originally posted by Springer
Has it not occurred to any of you that BOB owns the sample if one exists and John doesn't even know if it does (beyond what Bob told him) exist and gave his word that he would not touch it?

Except that John said he watched them do the experiment with the bell jar. So John has seen it and been in contact with it. John only claimed he didn't go with Bob when he hid it. That is all.

That's the thing the people who freak out over John's stories seem to always miss, Lear is merely the conduit he's not the actuator or the controller, just the messenger sharing that which those who shared with him had to say. He no more knows if it's fact that we do, he certainly believes it's fact in this case but that's ALL he's ever said about it.

And so that means we can't discuss and disagree with what he believes to be true then? Because he's not the actuator, he is then not responsible for the claims he makes with his stories? What is it that you're trying to say exactly? That we shouldn't discuss any subject of Johns if we disagree with it?

And on the contrary, we don't miss that John is just the conduit in most of his claims/stories. It's been pointed out a number of times in this thread alone. It can be quite a convienant way to keep his hands clean when backed into a corner and not take any responsibility for his claims. It's also a good way to avoid breaking the first rule in the T&C. It's quite the safty net really.

The point is... John does not have any answers. He only has wild accusations and excuses for why he can't back any of his claims up. There is not one answer in any of this mess to most of our questions. The few we have gotten are contradictory and make no sense. Of couse I don't like his answers, they are nothing but excuses. Obviously this is going to go nowhere...

Maybe we should not allow people to make wild claims like , I have a map of where element 115 supposedly is, if they are not going to back it up. Of course we are going to question it. Why don't you take this up with the person posting these claims all over your site, instead of the people who are looking for answers.

[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

Not trying to speak for John, but i don't believe he has done anything wrong. He says what he thinks. He tells you what he heard, knows, or believes. Never did i see him tell anyone to accept his claims and believe them. He states them, and we choose to believe them or not. If you don't believe or want to rant on him simply make a organized thread debunking him.

Reason he gets his own forum, (my opinion) is he isn't some guy sitting in the dark typing outrageous things on his computer. I could make wild claims just as convincing as his and even more outragous. But i wouldn't get my own forum. I don't have experience in anything. I'm a 17 year old who works on his car, and goes to school.

John has all of that aviation experience and He has met pretty much all the ATS guys in person, has given great moon pictures and has done many interviews. Not saying to follow blindly, but don't continuously bash the man every chance you get.

So to sum my post up in a over the top internet meme way.


LEAVE JOHN LEAR ALONE!!!!






Good Day Sirs!
Josh

[edit on 5-10-2007 by 3rdeye]

Originally posted by CTS32
Why don't you take this up with the person posting these claims all over your site, instead of the people who are looking for answers.

That's a really good suggestion.

You can employ whatever slick semantics you want.....the fact is, J. Lear presents his content as fact and uses the "just opinion" as a cheap, convenient "out".

He says, he's seen element 115, knows where a sample is hidden, has driven past its hidden location....

But suddenly it turns into some stupid Nixonian alibi, "well, everything I say is just my opinion". Give us a break or simply announce it......someone thinks the readers of ATS are dumber than hell......

So Springer has to come to John's aid, reminding us all that these aren't John's claims, he is just passing on what others tell him. But then I hear the top brass during ATS mix shows proclaim that John is one of the best investigators out there. Just stop and think about that for a second. An investigator takes the things that people tell them and....well...actually investigate it. Not just parrot it on the internet for entertainment purposes.

And then, earlier in this thread I get beat up and warned for stating damn near the exact thing Springer said a few posts up, about how John is able to keep arm's length from getting any dirt on him. But when I said it, it was not convenient for them, but after his bluff is called and the game is up they bring it out on their side, as predicted by tons of people here in advance, in writing...and all of a sudden it's a good thing?

How about a little consistency here?

John, you seem to be able to maintain this ability to remain and/or claim neutrality just in case any of your sources get tagged for being the cons and fools they probably are. Again, how very convenient for you.

I think the game is up here. Bob Lazar is a fake, John Lear is a patsy and none of this is real.

This is the best John has?!? My opinion is him and Lazar are both WONDERFUL GUYS. Case closed... thankyou and goodnight.

[edit on 5-10-2007 by CTS32]

admin edit: Removed childish name calling AGAIN... CTS, ou get a 3 day break from posting, use it to learn how to be civil and interact with grown ups please.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Springer]

Boy the tension is high here! I had a thought.... What if what John is saying is all true. The 115, the experiment, the hidden piece somewhere etc. Would that not make it "stolen us govt property?" If John came outright and and said ...ok guys I got a small piece of it from Bob and im having xyz labs run a spectroscopy analysis of it on monday! The unmarked crown vics and tall guys in bad suits would be all over it right? They supposively monitor these forums on a daily basis.

Or since the world is an oil based economy, the "dislosure" of such a wondrous element that has the potential to save mankind would be an all out nightmare to the big corporations that "run " our world!

That would be the case if the "evidence" was handled it the utmost best possible scenario. Fox news,cnn yada yada covering the whole thing! And then suddenly certain people will dis-appear and the whole issue will be a big cover up with the normal dis info thrown in for good measure.

So if John actually had access to this piece of 115 and could do everything that we all to happen with it...it wouldn't do any good to anyone in the end

Just my opinion

Well there is still the point the government knows Lazar stole it, knows where Lazar is, but takes no action. Kind of strange. See what these people are getting at? Your own story suggests they would be after whoever took the 115. That makes sense to me too. They are not for some reason. They know who took it, where they are, but do nothing. They actually give them even more secret projects, can you see why people are questioning this? After reading through all this, that is what stands out to me. The fact lazar openly claimed he stole 115 from the government, told everyone about their most top secret projects, and now the government is trusting him by giving him even more classified work. That makes no sense at all. Even if the rest of the story could be explained somehow, that one piece there does not add up in any way.





[edit on 5-10-2007 by b309302]

Originally posted by b309302
....The fact lazar openly claimed he stole 115 from the government, told everyone about their most top secret projects, and now the government is trusting him by giving him even more classified work. That makes no sense at all. [edit on 5-10-2007 by b309302]

It makes sense.

Bob Lazar is a government disinfo agent.

I declare this whole Lazar nonsense debunked.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by Johnmike

And how did you get your Coleman lantern mantle to give off alpha particles, anyway? Maybe I missed it.

originally posted by johnlear

I emailed Bob yesterday to find out exactly what the element was in the Coleman mantel before I answered your post. I should have told you what the delay was.

email from Bob Lazar

Sorry, I don't get a chance to check emails that often. I got this one Friday at 2:30pm my time.
Anyway, the old Coleman mantles contained a Radioactive Thorium compound (almost certainly Thorium Oxide).
BTW, How's everything going there ?

-Bob
-United Nuclear Scientific Supplies

MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)

(excerpts)

Product Identification: Thorium Oxide

IV. REACTVITY DATA

Hazardous Decomposition Products: Thorium oxide dust, thoron daughters, alpha, beta and gamma radiation.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
And then, earlier in this thread I get beat up and warned for stating damn near the exact thing Springer said

It's the "dam near" part that bit you.

It's ALL ABOUT TONE and CIVILITY. If that's beyond your ability, I would suggest taking some social skills classes or enrolling in a HUMANITIES course.

People Skills, they are valuable when dealing with PEOPLE.

Springer...

reply to post by 3rdeye


You're only 17?! Well you have a BETTER UNDERSTANDING of people, you have better people skills and you "get the internet" BETTER than most of the 30 year olds in this thread!

There is HOPE for the future!

Springer...

Originally posted by Chorlton
I mean real government evidence.

You want evidence from people who are famous for lying?

PBS ran a show last night featuring Bob and United Nuclear.
You can see it on line here:


www.pbs.org...