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Crop circles and beyond; pros and cons

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posted on Jan, 22 2004 @ 09:27 PM
*I would first like to draw attention to the subject matter and the catagory of which I have posted it. Crop circles themselves should go into the paranormal or alien threads, but as since this is to be intended as an educational or researchable thread, I am hoping that in learning, it would be placed here

*Secondly, I would like to accredit this thread to JAMMERMAN, for it was (s)he who posted this idea in the thread "When did crop circles first appear", or words to that extent... also, couldn't find "ice circles" or "sand circles" on the ATS search, so this does contain new and relevant information.

*Third, as a disclaimer, I am neither in favor of, nor against, crop circles. To me, there is plenty of proof on both sides of the issue, and I leave it strickly to the readers and posters to decide for themselves.

* * * * * * * *

The ideas and shapes of crop circles is not a modern art; in fact, the basics of crop circles have been recorded since the early 13th century in Britian. It wasn't until recently, with private aircraft, that crop circles have attained their mystic and thought- consuming attention. The modern era of crop circles began in the 1970's, with the reputed forming of these circles by two eldery men, who struck upon this idea while in an English pub.

Spiritualists to extra-terrestial believers have all flocked to the circles, each with their own ideas and agendas, and their own creators. These crop circles have been accredited to the likes of Satan, God, angels, demons, aliens, and as proven on the Discovery Channel, a group of five students from MIT. But first, let us talk about the crop circles and their patterns.

Crop circles began as simply circles, plain and simple in design. Wether Satan himself stood inside while his minions and worshippers danced around him, or a flying saucer beamed patterns to be seen by us, the circles remained just that; circles. Usually, these circles are said to lay on the infamous ley lines, pathways of energy connecting ancient temples around the globe.

Increasingly, however, crop circles have taken greater design and form, from spirals, to multiple circles, stars, three dimensional renditions using various degrees of "crop shading". In one example, there has been a report of a crop circle which, when first examined, appears to be a series of cubes piled ontop each other in a triangle shape; further inspection revieled that the cubes contained circles, which contained triangles, all visible at diferent light levels.

Crop circles, when man-made, can be creqated simply with any length of twine, and a two x four board secured to a foot, and two people (one being the marker, the other the maker). Not going into detail, but the process is a simple one: one man holds one end of the rope, the other holds the other end, and walks around. Different patterns can be made using different lengths or rope.

A more modern concept, which can be used to create greatly detailed shapes, is the use of a computer running a fractal program or a CAD designer, and a GPS system. This way, you can predetermine what shape you are going to make, use a blueprint, and always know if you are on track.

On the Discovery Channel, the people at Discovery brought a challenge to five students at MIT: design and build for us a crop circle so that it completly resembles a "real" circle. The qualifications for a real circle are as follows:

1. The stalks of crop cannot be broken, but bent in a symmetrical fashion and level.

2. There must be microwave implosions within key stalks; several crop circles have had stalks which contained pocket explosions... enough to swell the stalk, but not enough to pop.

3. There most be, within the circle formation, iron deposites, no larger than grains of sand, which are ionized; this, too, is something only found in authentic circles versus man-made.

4. The pattern must be made at night, for there have been no records of a daytime creation.

5. The time for such a creation must be under 5 hours... reports of a bare field having circles made in 5 hours or less are very common.

The students began their challenge by reating a formation, consisting of a curved triangle within a circle, attached to a long pathway, with a smaller circle on the end (this was an arial view of a campus building, the walkway, and water fountian).

I won't describe the whole show, just the major details and facts: the students did indeed create their circle, barely in time. They used a computer, GPS, night vision goggles, a portable microwave generating "gun" which emitted micro-waves, a modified wet cannon which shot iron pellets through an ion-izing ring (with a flame attachment).

As a personal note... how many people around the world own the hardware as used by these students, not to mention the experience or knowledge to create and build microwave guns or ion shooters?

I love seeing the crop circles. To me, there are some which, when viewed, gives an emotional ride of awe, much as would a great painting or song. I am an artist, and know that the only thing seperating man from animal is the ability to bring out emotions from another by simply uttering a word, or drawing a picture. There are crop circles which do that... that is art, in its purest forms. There are those crop circles, too, which resemble Elvis, or Washington, that are not art... but that is splitting hairs. Whoever did any of those types of circles are artists.

Then there are those types of circles that hold mathmatical properties. Outward growing spirals, in direct proportions and ratios, the squares within circles within triangles, complex arrangements of angles and ratios. Scientists or CAD programs could be given credit for these as well, but there is so much more...

Mainly, the fact that crop circles are not limited to crops.

Recently discovered are the enigmas of ice circles. These range in three distinct patterns:

1. a perfect circle scratched onto an ice covered body of water.

2. circles formed wings of snow on the ice, with no snow around anywhere else.

3. A circle or pattern UNDER the ice.

These, too, could be explained away with the simple man/rope/knife... if used for the scratched circle. Or by looking at my frost covered window as I type, delicate patterns of ferns and curves sprouting all over. But what of the snow rings with no snow anywhere to be seen? Or the circles under the ice flows?

And, too, the sightings of sand circles; these are similiar in shape and style to crop circles, but here is a problem. Sand, unlike rows of corn, leaves marks or trails where someone stepped.

Crop circles are one of those things where both sides are right, and yet both are wrong. There is so much proof and evidence showing how crop circles can be made naturally (wind patterns, electro-static discharges in the atmosphere, people) and the same number of evidence in favor of circles being extra-terrestrial in nature (time constraints with complex forms, mathmatical properties, reports and photographs of floating glowing spheres above freshly made circles, ionized iron, burst stalks), and the spiritualists have their say as well (auras, energy transferrs, mystic properties).

Anyone, and everyone, will see what they want to see in a crop circle, which to me is great. To define and label such acts, to expect and demand that there is a natural and scientific explaination, or to show and prove that aliens are writing signs for us, takes away from us the mystery, the beauty, of these circles.

For further reading, check these links:


This is entitled "Report on an Ice Circle in NE Utah", by the National Institute for Discovery Science

this is a good link homepage, with many informative side links on various subjects

A Canadian internet-based newsletter, it provides links to published newprint articles



for the UFO believers

this is an excellent site, going into great detail on the various aspects of crop circles and their meanings of design

an entry in the Skeptic Dictionary, contains links for those against crop circles being extra-terrestrial

As stated earlier, I am neither for or against crop circles; I simply enjoy looking and seeing them. I am not trying to make a case for or against. I am trying to bring the information of crop circles as an unbiased informant.

People, both the novice and the expert, could argue their points back and forth until each passed out because of lack of oxygen. Each side has valid points, proofs, and counter points.

But one thing should be mentioned here: where is the media attention on the ice circles? I have only seen one television spot on this formation, all 3 minutes of it on a two hour documentary. Sand circles I have not heard about until JAMMERMAN mentioned them. Is it because crop circles are easier to make, and thus easier to discredit? Or is it because to give attention that these circles appear where they shouldn't, does that give creditance to the UFO's?

All in all, take and learn what you wish, discover for yourself. Thank you.

posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 04:41 AM

I was going through Current news, and came across this article, which in turn made me remember this old post... hope everyone enjoys!

Ice Circles Discovered

Egad! Just double-checked all the old links... most of them lead to nowhere now. That sucks. Someone will have to re-discover those sites... especially the sand circles, rather impressive.

[edit on 2009/1/14 by The Soothsayer]

posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 05:22 AM
I happen to know what crop circles are who makes them and what purpose they serve, my thinking is so radical that I am dismissed by people that are supposedly 'open minded', people like whitley streiber himself emailed me and said I have no proof, like he has any proof, here's my video... I talk about crop circles at the end... yes I know my videos are not user friendly and are not pretty and packaged the way you see on tv, and I have no apologies for that.

posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 05:57 AM
Hi soothsayer, nice thread. I have a few additions for you.
Firstly their have been daytime circles namely the julia set nr stonehenge.
This circle appereared after a pilot had flown over the area once with an investigator on route to another and was not there on the way out but was there on the return - prob 15 mins later, and was a large pattern.

Also have you seen the pictures of the residue effects of the patterns some moths later?
On a dutch site ( i will find & post link) they showed pics of patterns some 6-8 months after the feild had been ploughed. What i mean is when their had been a hard frost or dusting of snow the areas where their had been flattened crops were white against the soil background leaving a perfect image of the pattern.
Their have also been the reverse wher the snow or hard frost stuck everywhere but the flattened area of the pattern leaving a brown image of the pattern in the snow.
Now this could only have happenned if their was some kind of residue energy left - not forgetting that the crop was cut and field ploughed out.
I saw that programme you referred to and although they tried they couldnt reproduce what you find in real circles.
I have been in many and i can tell you some of them contain an instantly noticeable energy that is not always pleasant - by that i mean it is quite intense - remember that feeling when you touch an old tv screen and you can feel the cusion of static, well a bit like that but all over your body. The most energised circle i have been in was this one
This circle was mown out after 24hrs.
There is without doubt some kind of energy transfer in the genuine ones, what it is i dont know but it definately has been measured by scientists as the genuine ones have upto 500 x more radiation in them than the background radiation measured outside the circle.
My favs -

posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 06:30 AM
Hi again, having trouble finding the ghost formations in the snow but here's some ghost formations from the year before - remener the feilds had been mowed and ploughed out for months before reseeding so how come their is a ghost image?
This is what i meant by a residue energy left that is affecting the new crops growth 8-10 months after.

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