What IF the government collapsed?

It appears to be a common belief of some ATSers that my US government system could possibly collapse, or furthermore, is headed farther and farther down that path with the passing of each day.

So I'm going to ask; what IF the government collapsed? Maybe more specifically, what does it mean for the people?

What would be our role as ex-citizens? Would it be our job as the people to come up with a new system? a new constitution? new something?
How would we find out? Would it be the responsibility of certain people (perhaps ex-gov't ex-officials) to inform the citizens that the government has collapsed and that they must establish a new system?
Or on another note, would they tell us? What if the system collapsed but they didn't tell anybody and people just kept living their lives?

If the government failed, would the economy collapse with it?

One thing is for sure, if the government ever did collapse, chaos is guranteed to spread like wildfire.

My guess would be that whatever the cause of the collapse would have a major determination on what our roles as citizens would be.
Your first priority is to survive and be safe and your physical needs met. Then see to those in your group if there is one.
Nature abhores a vacuum and without a government in place someone or a group of someones will attempt to re establish a form of government of their choosing. (That right there is a scary thought)
Jules

"and without a government in place someone or a group of someones will attempt to re establish a form of government of their choosing. (That right there is a scary thought)"

Indeed that is kind of a scary thought. But thats exactly what i would try to do:

Write up a simple constitution or what have you.. basically get as many people around you as possible to become part of your institution; or perhaps i'd force them to do such (by use of brandished weapon). As long as you have the supplies or could get them (by use of brandished weapon), you'd probably be fairly successful. Until a bigger, badder leader came along, to whom i'd cede or perhaps attempt to overtake (by use of many brandished weapons). At any rate........ uh, yeah

if government collapses? total government?

ill buy the keg

Nature abhors a vacuum.

And in the apocryphal words of Nathan Bedford Forrest, the prize goes to whomever gets there "the firstest, with the mostest."

Don't bother with a constitution, you can work that out later. Get some friends with guns, and hopefully at least some light artillery or antipersonel equipment. Then commandeer a food supply. Next, start printing your own currency. Then, try for foreign backing.

Once your are victorious, THEN you can sit down with pen in hand, and style yourself as Cornelius, or the Law-giver, or what have you.

Hahaaa!! I'll become the world's youngest dictator; or wait, a Louis of France might have me by a couple of years (psh "divine rule").

Anyhow, I'd think China or Russia would be here a whole lot quicker than any of us could do anything. Would Canada help or hinder us? I'd think they'd close their border.

But.. if the US system collapsed, it'd probably yank half the world down with it right? China for sure.. Russia not so much, as they're fairly independent from us economically (and i only keep referring to these two because i do think they would attempt an invasion if SHTF in any form).

as quoted by dr_strangecraft

Next, start printing your own currency. Then, try for foreign backing.

If the rest of the world did leave us to our lonesome, how would one go about doing this? You'd have to know some pretty important peeps.. i really doubt anyone would get too far.

Originally posted by B-Rad G

as quoted by dr_strangecraft

Next, start printing your own currency. Then, try for foreign backing.

If the rest of the world did leave us to our lonesome, how would one go about doing this? You'd have to know some pretty important peeps.. i really doubt anyone would get too far.

If your opinions of them are correct, China and Russia would probably be interested. The key is to remember "my enemy's enemy is my friend." Whoever threatens you, you make friends with their enemy, and start getting international aid.

If Mexico or Canada were still intact, they might send you aid if it looked like it would forestall occupation by the Eastern hemisphere. I bet some EU members might pony up, too.

Even if you don't get foreign aid, it raises your importance if you are seen in "talks" with a major power. Most of the diplomatic world opposed hitler from the outset; but the mere fact they had to deal with him gave him legitimacy. It's a big part of the reason that he rose above fascists from other regions of Germany. The strasser brothers and Rhoem; even Goebbels were regional players--Goebbels especially had been more popular than Hitler in Berlin. But Hitler had a sort of inverse legitimacy after he was featured in American and British newspapers. It gave his rants against the "world bankers out to ruin Germany" an air of truth.

You can judge a man by the quality of his enemies, even more than by the quality of his friends.

Once your are victorious, THEN you can sit down with pen in hand, and style yourself as Cornelius, or the Law-giver, or what have you.


Good grief there will be hundreds of crazed, self appointed dictators running around the Nation Formerly Known As The United States Of America (hey it worked for The Artist Formerly Known As Prince) waving guns in the air screaming how they are now in charge.
They'll look like puny versions of Mr T with all the jewelry they looted from local pawn shops and driving brand new cadilacs....
Jules

reply to post by julesmac8



Exactly. Like a banana republic or something. And they'll eventually beat each other down until the most successful wipes out his/her competition, and becomes king/queen of the hill.

That's how Napoleon took power after the french revolution. Also Mao, Chaing Kai-shek, et al in various "power vacuums around the world.

The Spanish civil war is a particularly bloody example, when one village is fascist, the next hamlet is communist, the people down the road are royalists, etc. The bloodbath can take decades to sort out.

.

i would love it if our government collapsed but the messed up people who ran it, are they dead or alive? if they are alive then we are still screwed.

We will no longer be UNITED States. California will declare independence 1st, and will be renamed Gay Mecca. Next Texas will separate and be eventually be "reclaimed" by Mexico. Moso of the southern states will be incorporated into Mexico, northern states be incorporated to Canada, the rest of the states will bea mismash of no mans land states. With no federal support, they eventually be left empty as mass reverse-migration back to Europe, as that's where most of our ancestors came from.

China and Russia will begin to spread communism, eventually NWO under communist doctrine will rule, Hillary will be named vice-chairman.

We all live with adequate food, clothing, basic shelter. No one is richer or poorer, yet everyone while won't die of hunger, won't have anything to look forward to either.

Originally posted by docklands
Next Texas will separate and be eventually be "reclaimed" by Mexico.

How old are you? If anything Texas will conquer Mexico or at least most of the Mexican States bordering it. I've heard of some fairly uninformed statements on ATS but that's a doozy! Texas has has 3 major Army Forts in it, 6 active US Air Force Bases and 2 Naval Airstation and the largest Air Reserve base in the Nation! There are literally a dozen Army Camps and 2 more Air National Guard bases as well. I bet there's a National Guard Armory in most every county on the border. Besides, this is a dumb thread. Our nation is based on the US Constitution and not the Gov't.

I'm certain that these days there would be more than a few guardian angels protecting the responsibility of the position of 'leader' - so if someone stepped out of line, there'd probably be at least a dozen assassination attempts in the first month.

In otherwords, it would be the individual's responsibility to make sure that those in charge don't step out of line, like has happened in today's society.

As for those whom couldn't give a # about society in general, then i imagine survival is the key - there may be those drawn to these survivalists in hopes of help adapting to the new world, and it would be the survivalist's responsibility to train the others in the means of survival.

As for the rest of us, those whom live off the establishment's pursuits of distraction like mainstream music or television, i'd imagine they'd do what they could to turn the world into the place it was - although granted mayhap a few months of life-on-the-line survival may make them think of things other than big brother or 'teh pussycat dolls' at least for a while.... Maybe.

We have but one more category to cover - the individualists.

The individualist may do as was mentioned in the opening paragraph, but it's just as likely they'll use the situation to indulge the more... 'primitive' urges, like murder or rape - both of which are indeed deeply materialistic.

It is these 'individual's' we think of when the media talks of 'anarchy'.

Oh, and there'll be plenty of people who can't handle it.

reply to post by docklands


DL, let me clarify things down here for you, the only thing that keeps most border Texans(who are of Mexican descent) from crossing the river and razing many of the trouble spots to the ground isn't the Mexican Army or the Federales, it's the US gov't . Same is true probably in AZ except over there, it's Native Americans who have been at conflict with the Mexican gov't since they showed up in the 1500's.

Mexico has no military tradition, serving in the military is looked down upon in Mexico. Texas has 172 years of military tradition. All of the border states have far greater economic ties to Texas than they do Mexico City. Mexico is still running their economy using the 15th century European colonial model which is why they have the 13th or 14th largest economy in the word but rank 56th in per capita income. Mexico is one of the richest countries in the world in terms of mineral wealth but more than 40% of is population lives in crushing poverty due to its elitist rule. Mexico's gov't is far more likely to fall than the US even its current sorry state.

Good to know there are some that are resistant to the assault from the south. California however, Im sure, is a lost cause. They will just melt into the south.

Firstly,

as posted by crgintx
Our nation is based on the US Constitution and not the Gov't.

So.. the Constitution couldn't keep the country from falling apart, nor will it. Besides, we can already see the Bill o' Rights being threatened (ahem Pat. Act). I do not see the point you are making. And when i say "government collapse", I more so mean "American system collapse"; sorry if that was confusing.

Also,

as posted by coryblood
...but the messed up people who ran it, are they dead or alive? if they are alive then we are still screwed.

That kind of made me think: what would come of all of the military's weapons? I bet a popular general could get a large number of troops to rally behind him and re-establish some sort of control using the military's weapons (not literally using them, but holding on the cards..); establish some sort of military dictatorship, similar to Napoleon's scenario. Hey, maybe that wouldn't be so bad, and the country (whatever country we'd become) would start lookin at for number one only.

Eh, The military would try to keep some order. We might have a dictator. I really think we would survive once people got used to rationing and not living the high life so many americans are accustomed too. I got canned goods for 6 months and a 12 gauge. I'll make it (all I need) =) no matter what though, I think the country would pull itself back together!

IMHO The military would control things only long enough to establish a new civilian gov't. There might be a whacky, MacArthur or LeMay type left but any truly independent-minded leadership in the military was driven out during the Reagan-Bush years by Casper the Friendly Manager and Darth Chaney.

No sane military commander wants to deal with civilians. Way too many headaches.

I think that many folks out there believe the propaganda being put forth by the corporate media outlets who are crying wolf to justify their blatantly fascist agenda. The Supreme Court has already declared many of the worst parts of the Patriot Act unconstitutional and therefore void and illegal. The NeoCon Fascists are jumping ship fast. The Blackwater Mercenary Army is about to get prosecuted. Cheney had Haliburton move its corporate HQ to Dubai. Even Bush himself has purchased some land in S. America in case things get a little to sticky for him here after his impeachment. Most of the far right religious leaders are distancing themselves from the Republicans as cautiously as possible. They didn't get the things they were promised: a repeal of Roe vs. Wade and the federal gay marriage ban.

The greatest threat to our country right now isn't the Muslim Fundamentalist, it's the growing security-industrial complex who are using US taxdollars to create an atmosphere of fear that will allow them to control the population.

I thoroughly agree that the worst possible scenario would be the election of Hillary Rodham as President. She's an even worst fascist then Bush.

Originally posted by crgintx
reply to post by docklands

 

DL, let me clarify things down here for you, the only thing that keeps most border Texans(who are of Mexican descent) from crossing the river and razing many of the trouble spots to the ground isn't the Mexican Army or the Federales, it's the US gov't . Same is true probably in AZ except over there, it's Native Americans who have been at conflict with the Mexican gov't since they showed up in the 1500's.

Mexico has no military tradition, serving in the military is looked down upon in Mexico. . . . .

Most hispanics in Texas poll against spanish-language education in texas, and are against amnesty (not that you'll hear that in the major media). Notice there have been no huge "amnesty" demonstrations here. Not like LA-LA or Chicago.

The reason for this is, most immigrants come to texas to work and become americans. Many of them come here to join the US military, as I've posted elsewhere.


Second, if the US collapsed, Mexico would rip apart in a civil war within 6 months. Although the rebellion in Chiapas ended with a truce a decade ago, tension is still high there. with a sag in the economy caused by a collapsed US, economic tensions would quickly rise to the surface and curdle.


As Crngtx noted. I suspect Chihuahua and Coahuila might ask to join TX, or at least get some kind of protectorate status.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Nature abhors a vacuum.

And in the apocryphal words of Nathan Bedford Forrest, the prize goes to whomever gets there "the firstest, with the mostest."

Don't bother with a constitution, you can work that out later. Get some friends with guns, and hopefully at least some light artillery or antipersonel equipment. Then commandeer a food supply. Next, start printing your own currency. Then, try for foreign backing.

Once your are victorious, THEN you can sit down with pen in hand, and style yourself as Cornelius, or the Law-giver, or what have you.

it would entail more then a few friends. this is how i would do it anyways in my current situation: i'de find every gangbanger claiming my set i could then we would start the disarmament process and put on a air of were the new order try to look official. then, we would tell them they have to fight for us or work on getting food and supplies together for the town(not giving them a chance to do what they want reinforcing that our will is the only will) then we would begin small getting food together for the town i live in and the surrounding smaller towns (if were seen as a saviour more people will be apt to help us). i dont want to get into it it would take hours to explain the plan but its more 20% forceful acts and 80% affecting public opinion.