Hologram dudes, how was it done?

What I've come to realize (the hard way) is that it's flat out impossible to even attempt to debate these nutty 9/11 conspiracy theorists....And I'm no stranger to your typical forum debate, wether the topic be paranormal related or what have you. But the 9//1 'conspiracist' would have to be the fruit cake of all fruit cakes.

Even attempting to debunk something as asinine as a hologram theory is completely asinine in itself, because the entire concept is so literally asinine! What really amazes me here (still) is the lack of objection to somebody putting forth such utter snip[/], then having the gall to call out one of the victims of 9/11 at the same time. As Lear did in the case of Charles Burlingame.

admin edit: removed childish personal attack.


Simply unbelievable.


[edit on 10-9-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by illuminatinatifofotty
What I've come to realize (the hard way) is that it's flat out impossible to even attempt to debate these nutty 9/11 conspiracy theorists....

Why must you call someone names and insult them just because they do not believe what you believe? As far as conspiracy, the only conspiracy on 9/11 was terrorist hijacking planes (look up the meaning of conspiracy)

Most people (like me) who do not go along with the official story are intelligent and do research to find the truth about what what actaully happened that day.

I have filed FOIA requests with the FBI and NTSB.

I have e-mailed companies that were actually there at ground zero.

What research have you done to find the truth or to support the official story?

reply to post by ULTIMA1


I think you can tell from alot of my posts here that I don't beleive the "official" story. Now the hologram theory is a different thing for me because of my backround in the sciences on geometry and physics and chemistry, all subjects I did very well in school in.

Your posts here as well as Johns are appreciated and respected by me.

Fofotty's posts are also appreciated and jabs and name calling are normal human frustration when people say(write) something and then don't offer insight into how they came to their conclusions.

Showing declassified military documents that essentially say "we have a plan for this, here's some artists rendering of said plan, but whether or not there really is a working device is totally ambiguous" doesn't prove anything.

911 is full of anomilies, that is why I'm here to see if someone will come forward with their story or evidence to shed some light on it.

Good luck in your search for the truth.

when people say(write) something and then don't offer insight into how they came to their conclusions.

Precisely!!!!

And great point to make in relation to the obvious here Infininti.

As far as any name calling goes, if somebody's going to start shifting blame here onto one of the victims (with no basis in fact whatsoever) -- I think it's only fair that they earn the title of CT nut, don't you Ultima? At least they have the opportunity to defend themselves from such accusations, whereas the victim in fact doesn't. You supposedly have a background in law enforcement, you of all people should realize that.

Here's a question directed at myself from Ultima1 --

What research have you done to find the truth or to support the official story?

What research have I done? The research is already out there right in front of you! What about all of the other research that has been conducted Ultima? For example, FEMA, FBI, NSA, FAA, structural and civil engineers in multiple countries, major college institutions, the list goes on and on. Are you telling me nothing out of such a broad scope of individual investigative bodies and experts in their individual fields all working separate of one another doesn't count?

On the other hand, you cite Ranke's little 'Pentacon' flick as some sort of compelling evidence in the face of all of that? Some low budget CT doc that jumps to completely unfounded and speculative conclusions? Is that how a real researcher operates Ultima? Again, as Infiniti points out, you make a point of dismissing the official record, yet offer no insight whatsoever when a problem with your own suspicions is presented to you. 9/11 wasn't some isolated incident; it was a series of events taking place over a series of locations involving countless witnesses and countless investigations conducted after the fact.

You can suspect a conspiracy cover up out of anything if you are determined enough (I'm not impressed.) Especially by the fact that you can't even shed the least bit of doubt onto the official account which you have already stated is incorrect. As in the case of the Pentagon, you stated right in this very thread that no airplane hit the Pentagon. So you are convinced of that, or obviously you wouldn't be making that claim. Guess what? Time to start defending your claims then. You should readily be providing answers for the following facts (posted on this very site years ago now)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

All one has to do is start feeding you such simple individual facts as it relates to that bit of research and you would be at a complete loss to provide an answer for any one of them! Let alone attempt to refute them all in any way. Obviously because the research that you have conducted in all of the years since 9/11 unfolded is laughable. It amounts to nothing more than buying into conspiracy nut documentary propaganda. If I so much as even suspected that a plane did not in fact strike the Pentagon, I'd be the first one asking questions about it.

You're filing FOI requests to different agencies (big deal) -- who couldn't do the same? Perhaps you should start explaining away the obvious evidence that flight 77 in fact struck the Pentagon before you get to that stage detective.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
Fofotty's posts are also appreciated and jabs and name calling are normal human frustration when people say(write) something and then don't offer insight into how they came to their conclusions.

The problem is when people call someone names and insults them even though they have facts and evidnece to support what they state. I can post from many professional and goverenment research sites that have actaul facts and evidence.

Just like the following number of how many warnings the government had received and they were suppressed or ignored.

www.ctstudies.com...

Early '01 Memo Warned of Al Qaeda Threat
….The memo, from former counterterrorism chief Richard A. Clarke to then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, had been described during the hearings, but its full contents had not been disclosed…..(Reuters, 12 Feb 05)

Bush team tried to suppress pre-9/11 report into al-Qa'ida
Federal officials were repeatedly warned in the months before the 11 September 2001 terror attacks that Osama bin Laden and al-Qa'ida were planning aircraft hijackings and suicide attacks, according to a new report that the Bush administration has been suppressing….(Belfast Telegraph, 11 Feb 05)

Terror warnings to FAA detailed
The Federal Aviation Administration received repeated warnings in the months prior to Sept. 11, 2001….(AP, 11 Feb 05)

Memo warned Bush of al Qaeda threat
A newly released memo warned the White House at the start of the Bush
administration that al Qaeda represented a threat throughout the Islamic world, a warning that critics said went unheeded by President George W. Bush until the September 11, 2001, attacks….(Reuters, 11 Feb 05)

Sept 11 warnings ignored: report
United States aviation officials failed to respond to dozens of warnings of a possible terrorist threat months before September 11, 2001, according to a previously undisclosed report by the panel that probed the attacks….(Reuters, 11 Feb 05)

FAA ignored pre-9/11 terror alerts
In the months before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, federal aviation officials reviewed dozens of intelligence reports that warned about Osama bin Laden and al- Qaeda, some of which specifically discussed airline hijackings and suicide operations, according to a previously undisclosed report from the 9/11 commission…..(New York Times, 10 Feb 05)

9/11 Commission: FAA Was Alerted to Potential Attacks
Federal Aviation Administration officials received 52 warnings ….(AP, 10 Feb 05)

9/11 Report Cites Warnings About Hijackings
U.S. aviation officials failed to respond to dozens of warnings….(Reuters, 10 Feb 05)

[edit on 9-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Great job at ignoring that entire previous post of mine yet again Ultima. You know, if you would stop and think for a moment -- you're contradicting yourself left and right. For one, you believe that no al-Qaeda suicide pilots were even responsible for the attacks. Yet this is contained in your own info source --

[Bush team tried to suppress pre-9/11 report into al-Qaeda
Federal officials were repeatedly warned in the months before the 11 September 2001 terror attacks that Osama bin Laden and al-Qa'ida were planning aircraft hijackings and suicide attacks, according to a new report that the Bush administration has been suppressing….(Belfast Telegraph, 11 Feb 05)]

So if in fact Muslim extremists had no role in these attacks Ultima (and your own government did) -- why on earth would federal officials be warned before the fact that al-Qaeda was in fact planning the exact same attacks to be carried out? Furthermore, why on earth would the Bush administration even attempt to suppress such information if their main agenda was to implicate Muslim fanatics as the perpetrators in the first place? Explain that one.

Another obvious point to make here (and I've made it before) -- considering that you suspect certain agencies of cover up and disinfo, how on earth are you so sure on just what agency you can trust to compile your own info from Ultima? Another question you will just conveniently ignore along with the rest no doubt.

As to the mod edit of my post at page top, question regarding that...

I'm not objecting to that slight edit whatsoever. Although, what designates that anymore of a 'childish and personal attack' than Mr. Lear degrading one of the 9/11 victims here? Is it alright for such childish and personal attacks to be issued here as long as they are coming from Mr. Lear or what?

Or do you not agree in someway that calling out a victim of 9/11 as if they are reading the threads here and to quote Mr. Lear "will have to answer for their part in 9/11" -- do you not consider that a childish and personal attack as well? And if not, how come please?

Originally posted by illuminatinatifofotty
Great job at ignoring that entire previous post of mine yet again Ultima. You know, if you would stop and think for a moment -- you're contradicting yourself left and right. For one, you believe that no al-Qaeda suicide pilots were even responsible for the attacks. Yet this is contained in your own info source --

Well you might want to learn to read. I have never stated it was an inside job, or the government was responsable.

I am trying to find the truth of what actually happened that day.

I have done a lot of research and most of it proves the official story is missing or left out a ton of imformation.

Maybe you can tell me why people that still believe the offical story call people that have intelligence, common sense and do research to find out what really happened that day all kinds if names and insult them?

Are people really that afraid of the truth ?


[edit on 9-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

dude i was watching live when the second jet hit the tower and 5 minutes later the base was on total lockdown and we had hummers with 40 cals on every gate and this is pope in NC and we were like that for two weekes no one in or out unless you had permision from a major

Originally posted by razor1000
dude i was watching live when the second jet hit the tower and 5 minutes later the base was on total lockdown and we had hummers with 40 cals on every gate and this is pope in NC and we were like that for two weekes no one in or out unless you had permision from a major

Ok, you might have seen a jet hit the tower, but where is all the facts, evidence, and reports we should have to explain what really happened?

6 years later and we still do not know what really happened that day.

I know, i work for a government agency, we were evacuated because our building might have been a target.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


go ask the people whose significant other died that day that question and when you get your answer come back and tell me i'm not going to get into that.

the reason they didnt let anyone near the site if u remember is because they were rcovering all the bodies and they had to get the stuff out of the way not to say the goverment is not shady however

Originally posted by razor1000
go ask the people whose significant other died that day that question and when you get your answer come back and tell me i'm not going to get into that.

the reason they didnt let anyone near the site if u remember is because they were rcovering all the bodies and they had to get the stuff out of the way not to say the goverment is not shady however

Are you talking about the famiuly members who are fileing FOIA request and fileing lawsuits to also find the truth of what happened that day? (just like i am)

But what about now? Its been 6 years, where are the facts and reports we should have by now.

in all likelyhood most of those people are people that did not get closure or just like you dont believe in the truth because its too much to bear better that we kill our own than someone else doing it just to hurt us

Originally posted by razor1000
in all likelyhood most of those people are people that did not get closure or just like you dont believe in the truth because its too much to bear better that we kill our own than someone else doing it just to hurt us

Well those family mambers gave up alot of money from congress to file FOIA and the lawsuits they filed will probably never go to court, or if it does i doubt they will ever see any money. (not like the money they would have received form congress, if they signed a release agreement not to file lawsuits)

Also maybe because like me the family members have some intelligence and common sense that tells them there is something wrong with the official story.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
there is something wrong with the official story.

That's the bottom line in my book Ultima, and all the stonewalling, delaying, and finger pointing at the previous administration by the current administration only makes me want to know what they don't want us to know.

It could be as simple as the "Incompetency Theory", or it could be as deep and as ugly a story as ever imagined.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
It could be as simple as the "Incompetency Theory", or it could be as deep and as ugly a story as ever imagined.

Well if the agencies involved were incompetent, why was no one fired. People at NORAD all got promotions and awards.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Here's one of the mutilated bodies from flight 77 found within the debris from the plane at the Pentagon Ultima. I guess this wouldn't count as evidence though in your eyes would it? Even though it is in fact just a small portion of official government evidence out there.

IMAGE EDITED (honestly, calling attention to CT ignorance isn't worth highlighting such material.)

Would be refreshing here if you even halfway attempted to argue such evidence when thrown in your face. Oh wait, I forgot; you can't. You can only speculate and lay claims.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by illuminatinatifofotty]

Did you edited that image out because you realized that it was a Pentagon worker, and not an actual flight 77 passenger ?
These images have already (edit : ) been (end edit) posted here many times.

And your image of one frame out of the famous Pentagon camera with your supposed 757 on top of the other camera boot has been extensively discussed here at ATS, and many times over proved to be a faulty assumption.



[edit on 11/10/07 by LaBTop]

reply to post by LaBTop


First off; why do you CT supporters have to edit simple two and three paragraph comments routinely?

Of all the posts I've made here (some thirty plus or more perhaps) -- three have been edited. One for the victims picture above. One by a mod (who still can't justify his actions as opposed to Lear's comment) -- and one because I couldn't manipulate the huge font effect early on.

As far as the picture goes, there's multiple pictures of death strewn all throughout that flight wreckage. Plus, DNA matching up the victims remains on scene with the mutilated bodies. But that doesn't count in your fantasy world as evidence either does it?

And yes, the picture I 'de-linked' out of good taste for the victim. I know that's a hard concept for you no planers and CT types to understand. Lear bashing one of the victims, or the sight of a mutilated body linked up here is of no offense to the majority (which says a lot really.) That's another problem I have with you conspiracy theorists. The victims are secondary really to your misguided theories themselves (nothing is more important than that in your conspiracy world.)

That's why we have pictures of JFK's brains falling out of his skull while on that gurney and widely available to anybody who can manipulate a google search. Thanks a lot conspiracy nuts. As I pointed out posts ago -- I started out on the fence really when it came to the 9/11 debate. Thinking there was good reason to doubt just the core facts of it all. To my surprise, it's total paranoia, manipulation and lies on the CT's part. So much so, that the more I read up on the topic, the more disgusted I get with your unfounded paranoia and stupidity. Mainly because of the victims involved with these events that you all have zero regard for.

In fact, I wish the government would start it's own secret little vendetta against you all. Snakes in your mailboxes, pushing the worst of you from moving cars (Alex Jones), tear gassing you at your absurd protests...I'm all for such a conspiracy really. I think the government is being way too tolerable with you morons. These idiots want a conspiracy so bad, lets give them a real one to bitch about.

Originally posted by illuminatinatifofotty

Here's one of the mutilated bodies from flight 77 found within the debris from the plane at the Pentagon Ultima. I guess this wouldn't count as evidence though in your eyes would it? Even though it is in fact just a small portion of official government evidence out there.

So if i posted a photo of a body in debris and told you it was from the Pentagon you would believe it? Show me some actual hard evidence and official reports to support your thoery or the official story.. Oh thats right you cannot.

Do you have the DNA report that states who the body is? (the new NIST DNA testing was not ready till 2002)

Do you have the name of the photographer, the date and time it was taken?

Do you have a report that matches the parts to Flight 77?

I means it ok if you believe this little bit of evidence but i deal with actual facts and official reports.

[edit on 11-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Too Ignorant For Words

Originally posted by illuminatinatifofotty
I think the government is being way too tolerable with you morons. These idiots want a conspiracy so bad, lets give them a real one to bitch about.

Looks to me like you've come to the wrong place, because this doesn't meet our basic standards for discussion, and I see no need to continue with this nonsense.

Farewell.