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Isaiah tells us that the Servant will be universally despised and rejected
"He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not." - Isaiah 53:3
While this has certainly been true for the Jewish people, the Christian Bible describes Jesus as immensely popular. (Luke 2:52, 4:14-15, Mark 3:8-9, etc.).
If Jesus was The Messiah, he would have lived long and had children. Isaiah 53:10
The missionary’s greatest difficulty is posed by Isaiah’s declaration that the suffering Servant is actually a group of people, and not an individual
"for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due."-Isaiah 53:8
We must understand that missionaries employ Isaiah 53 not only to validate their claim that Jesus is the Messiah.
They rely on this passage to delineate the essential mission of the Messiah:
to die as a vicarious sacrifice in order to atone for the sins of the world.
This idea has three critical flaws.
1 . The traditional Jewish concept of the Messiah as the Davidic king who will reign over a redeemed world of universal peace and universal knowledge of G-d is substantiated by dozens of passages throughout the Bible. The Christian messianic concept hangs entirely upon our controversial passage in Isaiah, and has no external corroboration.
2. The Christian messianic notion is based upon a subtle mistranslation. Isaiah 53:5 does not say, "He was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities", which could convey a vicarious suffering. Rather, the text properly translated reads, "He was wounded from our transgressions, crushed from our iniquities." This certainly does not convey that the Servant suffered to atone for the sins of others, but rather that the Servant suffered as a result of the sinfulness of others. This distinction is crucial!
3. Christian belief maintains that not only does the Messiah come to atone for sin, but also, the only way for humans to atone for sin is through belief in the Messiah’s vicarious sacrifice on their behalf. This idea directly contradicts Biblical teaching on many fronts. Here are just some of them:
The Bible rejects the concept of an innocent person dying in place of a guilty one
(Exodus 32:32-33, Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:1-4)
Biblical sacrifices, in and of themselves, are never sufficient to atone for our sins
(Proverbs 15:8, Isaiah 1:11-16, Amos 5:22-24, Micah 6:6-8)
The Bible strongly prohibits human sacrifice
(Genesis 22:10-13, Leviticus 18:21, Deuteronomy 18:10)
Since G-d promises forgiveness to all who sincerely repent of their sins and return to Him, there is no need for the Messiah to atone for us (II Chronicles 7:14, Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33, Jeremiah 36:3, Isaiah 55:6-7, Jonah 3:6-10, Daniel 4:27, Hoseah 14:1-3, Proverbs 16:6)
Not only does Isaiah 53 never mention the need to believe in the suffering of G-d’s Servant, but there isn’t even one reference in the entire Bible to believing in the Messiah as one’s personal saviour from sin.
THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOUR AND THAT IS GOD!
"I, yes I, am the Lord, and there is no other Savior." - Isaiah 43:11
Originally posted by whirlwind
Christ did become our Sabbath, our Passover, our rest but we should continue to worship on the correct day. The "eighth day" is a man made tradition - it is not of God.
In his Epistle to the Colossians, the Apostle Paul wrote:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
Therefore, there does not seem to be a technically "correct" day, as every day is appropriate to worship the Almighty, and give thanks to Him for our many blessings. However, the Acts of Apostles states that on the Jewish Sabbath, the Apostles taught in the synagogues, while they gathered together amongst themselves to worship on the first day of the week. Therefore, the tradition of the Christian community to gather on Sunday is an original one, handed down by the first Apostles.
I will also mention here that I am not an "orthodox" Christian, i.e., one coming from the Roman Catholic-Eastern Orthodox-Protestant line of succession. I am a Gnostic Christian, which I contend to be primitive Christianity in its purity. Nevertheless, even as a proud heretic, I must agree with the "orthodox" on the Sunday tradition, although according to Paul, it does not seem to be very important.
Originally posted by agoodshot
Thats a lie --It says this:
1"This is what the LORD says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor,
to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:
Isaiah 45 : 4-6
4 For the sake of Jacob My servant, and Israel Mine elect, I have called thee by thy name, I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known Me.
5 I am G-d, and there is none else, beside Me there is no G-d; I have girded thee, though thou hast not known Me;
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me; I am G-d; and there is none else;
the Trinity is an essential Christian doctrine
s = holy spirit, g = God, J = Jesus
1s = 1j = 1g, But according to Christians: 1s + 1j + 1g = 1g
whats your point [of the quote of Matthew 5:17-19]?
Jesus abolished some of the law. He broke a promise which God promised he will never do!
* The Sabbath on SATURDAY is suppose to be an ETERNAL covenant but Christians do not follow that.
If Jesus claim he hasn't come to abolish the law you should be following these commandments!
*Nor do they celebrate Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur
we are not jews , do muslims celebrate christmas?
Some Christians don't even celebrate Christmas so what's your point?
where [did Jesus change the rules]?
Mark 7:18-20 for starters
The OT NEVER SAID MESSIAH WILL DIE FOR OUR SINS!
yes it does,--- 2 Samuel 22:47
The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
It's: "G-d liveth, and blessed be my Rock; and exalted be the G-d, my Rock of salvation;"
There's a difference between "Exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation" and "Exalted be the God, my rock of salvation"
And where does it say this is a prophecy for the messiah?
1 Chronicles 16:23
Sing unto the LORD, all the earth; shew forth from day to day his salvation.
It's: Sing unto G-d, all the earth; proclaim His salvation from day to day."
And 1 Chronicles 16: 23 is talking about G-d not Messiah!
Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah
Actually it's Psalms 3:9. It says salvation belongs to God.
Shew us thy mercy, O LORD, and grant us thy salvation
It's Psalms 85:8. And once again it says God grants us salvation not the messiah
and it never says there is a trinity but its still an essential christian doctrine
"Every man shall die for HIS OWN sin" - Deuteronomy 24:16
They do, Jesus saves us from the second death as explained in scripture
Even Jesus die for his sin of claiming to be God
yes it does [say Jesus will return for the rapture],
And even that was a false prophecy! Jesus says "Truly I say, this generation won't pass away until all these things take place.". That generation did pass and Jesus never came back!
no [the Christian bible] has not [been changed], its 95% textually pure
Did you know that some of the books were changed?
youtube? you got to be kidding right?
You won't watch it because it's on YouTube? You do know that this was aired on the History Channel, right? How Stubborn!
no he didn't [break a commandment]
he healed a man that made it holy
You are not allowed to work on the Sabbath, healing some one is work
prove [The OT was MISTRANSLATED TO FIT WITH JESUS]
There's too many but the word "alma" for "virgin" instead of "young woman" is one!
you don't understand the trinity-John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."
We have already gone through this!
so what, times changed when Christ came
This is all you have to say for this? Did you run out of counter arguments for Jesus?
Originally posted by The time lord
Hope this helps one God but in many parts.
1 Corinthians 12
12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
The answers to what the post maker says are false is not so true if one does not explore because most of the answers are in the Bible in the Bible, you just have to see and understand.
Mark's Jesus, after listing all the tribulations that the world must endure before he returns a second time (Mark 13:3-29, Matthew 24:3-33) says: "Truly I say to you this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" (Mark 13:30, Matthew 24:34, Luke 21:32). Jesus was directing this remark specifically to his contemporary generation and not to some unknown future generation. Jesus, addressing his disciples "privately" (Mark 13:3, Matthew 24:3) listed what was going to happen before his return. He then added, "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you and you shall be hated of all nations for my names sake" (Matthew 24:9). Mark's version adds, "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved" (Mark 13:13). Thus, it appears from this last remark that at least some of the disciples would survive and be present to witness the second coming and the end of time. There is no need to interpret the verse, "Truly I say to you this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" otherwise than that Jesus was speaking here of his contemporary generation. The expression "this generation" appears fourteen times in the Gospels and always applies to Jesus' contemporaries. That generation passed away without Jesus returning. Therefore, we are confronted by another unfulfilled promise by Jesus. Jesus did not return during the period he himself specifically designated. Some commentators are of the opinion that "this generation" means the generation alive when this prophecy comes to pass, which they believe has yet to occur. But, the text shows that Jesus was'nt speaking to an unspecified future generation; he was speaking to his disciples and directed this prophecy to them personally.
(Mark 3:19-21, 31), during the period when he was preaching, Jesus' relatives, his mother and his brothers, believed that he was mentally ill. "neither did his brothers believe in him" (John 7:5). It seems, Mary, forgot the visits of angels. Mary seems to have forgotten her own impregnation by the Holy Spirit! This is proof that Jesus had NO MIRACLES surrounded his birth.
Originally posted by arpgme
Proof that Christianity's a false religion