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Ahmadinejad Speaks During Controversial Appearance at Columbia University

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posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by Bunch
reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


And can I please know why you direct your post at myself?



I did this when?

I said you were ignorant when? You are doing that all by yourself.




posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Who cares what he feels about homosexuals?
Who cares if he feels the Holocaust is mostly Zionist propaganda?
We may be on the brink of WW3 with a possible nuclear outcome! Screw your heads back on people!


From the great artist Barry McGuire


The eastern world, it is exploding
Violence flarin’, bullets loadin’
You’re old enough to kill, but not for votin’
You don’t believe in war, but what’s that gun you’re totin’
And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin’

But you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Don’t you understand what I’m tryin’ to say
Can’t you feel the fears I’m feelin’ today?
If the button is pushed, there’s no runnin’ away
There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave
Take a look around ya boy, it's bound to scare ya boy

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Yeah, my blood’s so mad feels like coagulatin’
I’m sitting here just contemplatin’
I can’t twist the truth, it knows no regulation.
Handful of senators don’t pass legislation
And marches alone can’t bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin’
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin’

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Think of all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
You may leave here for 4 days in space
But when you return, it’s the same old place
The poundin’ of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead, but don’t leave a trace
Hate your next-door neighbor, but don’t forget to say grace
And… tell me over and over and over and over again, my friend
You don’t believe
We’re on the eve
Of destruction
Mm, no no, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.
artists.letssingit.com...


Does the last portion ring a bell about the state of hypocracy in mainstream thinking here?

He is a leader of a country OUR political leadership is marching to war against so what he feels and thinks should be important

[edit on 9/24/07 by FredT]



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
It just could be that iran has no gays, why is it so impossible?
[edit on 24-9-2007 by pepsi78]


Gay people even spring up in places like Saudi Arabia where they are killed; they are in every known country.

Regardless, homosexuals are documented in Iran, and they are, like in many Islamic countries, persecuted and killed.

He most likely said they didn't exist in his country to give a neutral answer, so he wouldn't be scorned and also would not betray his beliefs; thus lying as a result.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


obviously you are playing an idiot? or you are pretending? YOUR AVATAR IS OFFENSIVE? is it hard to understand?

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Odessit]



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:21 PM
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

The link is to an ATS thread that has the entire transcript of his speech.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:21 PM
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

The link is to an ATS thread that has the entire transcript of his speech.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

He is a leader of a country OUR political leadership is marching to war against so what he feels and thinks should be important


You must be kidding. Of course what he thinks and feels is important.

What he feels about homosexuals and the holocaust though are personal opinions that have nothing to do with war.

We are about to attack a third country in a first strike, something that I never thought MY country would EVER do. Yet you are going to tell me what he feels about the above issues I stated are important!?!

What a circus....



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:32 PM
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May be the don't have gays like the other posted suggested, but I tell you this, just find one gay Iranian and that would prove right there that this
guy is a liar or out of touch with reality, two scary things when you come to realize that this is a Head of State that we are talking about.

Not really.
I could pay some one, maybe an iranian living in united states, and tell him to go gay for a while, it's a very easy setup, it's a result simple to obtain.
How about finding more than one to prove your point, from milions of iranians I bet if they have any you should be able to find more than 1 guy, how about couple of hundreds? then you have a point.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
 



Everything is important. One of the first things you learn as an ICU nurse is that ANYTHING no matter how smal, trivial, or unimportant is far from it. All the details you can attain from a person allows one to make better judgements about that person.

Far from a circus. here was a golden oppurtunity to abserve a person without having to resort to the usual propaganda laced spoon feeding we get from CNN, Fox News et al. Nothing like gettin information first hand eh?



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by Dr Love
I think it's pretty clear that Ahmadinejad didn't pull any punches about homosexuals.


I don't know if was a tactful move, but at least he was honest. It's really the only ground he's given up so far.

Peace

Ahmadinejad won this PR exercise very easily. A lot of what he said was just jibberish, but he did look and sound like the clever statesman that he is.
He should never have been given the opportunity to do so, it will just give ammo to the pro-government Persian press back in Iran.

It was funny how he said that there were no homosexuals in Iran, and that this phenomena only existed in "your country". I noticed that the loudest jeers happened after he said this, and not, more importantly, when he avoided the yes or no question about the destruction of Israel, or about the issue of free press which he avoided, or about the executions of kids which he avoided.

From an American point of view, this was somewhat of a disaster. This event humanised the supposed demon. The President of Columbia University attempted to ask 50 questions at once which allowed Ahmadinejad to avoid them. Poorly done and a waste of time.

We know Bush Jr isn't smart enough to debate a dog, but Conde Rice probably would have put Ahmadinejad in his place for sure. An intelligent and direct approach was needed to prevent or curb Ahmadinejad from going off on a tangent too many times.

Again 1-0 to the Iranian President over free American speech...

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Underbelly]



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:40 PM
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Gay people even spring up in places like Saudi Arabia where they are killed; they are in every known country.


Sorry but speaking scientificly you have no proff of that, because no one knows if it's genetic or not, and lately scientists went for a big "NO it's not"



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

Far from a circus. here was a golden oppurtunity to abserve a person without having to resort to the usual propaganda laced spoon feeding we get from CNN, Fox News et al. Nothing like gettin information first hand eh?


I think we are mis-communicating here, or maybe I am not articulating what I am thinking properly. I agree about assessment, I have been Incident Command for some bad emergency scenes.

Much respect to you for being an ICU nurse by the way, nurses are the heart and soul of the hospitals. Much more important than Doctors.

What I meant to say is that the media outlets are distracting us from real issues by coming up with emotional response tactics like his personal views.

I agree his personal views are important, but not what we should concentrate on.

Peace



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


I agree

The point that I was trying to make if that if there are incidents of gays been mistreated in Iran and its documented then he will be proven a liar, and that goes right to his credibility as a Head of State.

My guess is that if the question was chosen some sort of validity should have, because that's a very trivial question to be asking a Head of State when there is more pressing matters at hand.

Now if this guy is proven to be a liar in a issue as this one, could you expect that he would be forthcoming and truthful in other issues like WMD's, giving weapons to militias in Iraq that are killing and maiming us or about he's iintentions towards Israel?

Food for thought.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Bunch]



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


I agree with you, I clearly missed the point you were making . I was shocked by the amount of holocaust issues surround this speech. Not what I would have asked him by a stretch.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:47 PM
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Ok the gay issue about what he said is easy to understand

His religious beliefs say that being gay is a choice, the same view the religious right has, many Republicans, even those that say being gay should be protected, might argue it is a choice, do to religious beliefs.

What he said was no different then what a Republican would say at a debate with one caveat.

He said there was not the same phenomenon. Specifically gay people get punished so they do not exist in Iranian culture, they do exist in Iranian society, they have in all societies. He did not say they do not exist in Iranian society, if he acutally believes they do not exist at all this is either ignorance, wishful thinking or context.

His answer effectively said this. He believes being gay is a choice, and that in his country it is not allowed. If he truly believed they did not exist then the religion he follows would not have spent the time to teach about its moral value, and his government would not make it a crime. It does not exist in his view of acceptable society because he believes it is a choice that is not allowed under his government's control.

Also one of the rallying points of anti west Islam is the USA is very evil. And we want to import that culture to their families. Our economic system is based on greed, we are precoupied with materialism, we premote porn and homosexuality, this is what they see when a country is 'westernized'. Now imagine the muslims over there seeing our college kids burst out in laughter on the gay issue. They will use this for internal propaganda I persume.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 11:54 PM
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From other news sources

Al Jazeera
Ahmadinejad spars with US academics

Islamic Republic News Agency
IRI President addresses students at Colombia University

You can also get the transcript from the IRNA
www2.irna.com...



[edit on 9/24/07 by FredT]



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 12:02 AM
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[quote[

I agree

The point that I was trying to make if that if there are incidents of gays been mistreated in Iran and its documented then he will be proven a liar, and that goes right to his credibility as a Head of State.

There may very well be gays in Iran, who knows.




My guess is that if the question was chosen some sort of validity should have, because that's a very trivial question to be asking a Head of State when there is more pressing matters at hand.

Well it's sort of...I'll throw at you a bunch of dirt, and I will ask you about gay people that my country is so proud of it, especialy the president.
Bush does not like them either, so for some one to come and talk about gay people and ask this sort of questios while his own people that govern the country he is from are against anything that sound gay, especialy Bush.
This sounds like propaganda to me, forget if irans has them or not, it's all about how this was set up.




Now if this guys is proven to be a liar in a issue as this one, could you expect that he would be forthcoming and truthful in other issues like WMD's, giving weapons to militias in Iraq that are killing and maiming us or about he's iintentions towards Israel?

Bush is a liar too, but hey..he is still president.
Regarding the war in iraq, they may very well be behind operations of arming insurgents, but does this really matter? let's not forget this war is a complete sharade staged up from the begining, the question is not if they are suplying weapons to iraq, the question is what are you guys doing there?

You make it legit you know, like they are arming iraqis and killing our soldiers that are ? there for what reason?

Regarding gay.
By the way this is my personal opinion, I don't like them either, it's just the way I fell, don't hate them or anything, but just don't like being around them, makes my skin turn like chiken poks sort of.
I think people like this had a terible child hood and something went wrong, their behavior is deplorable, I understand alot of people, when black people marched for their rights they did not march half naked with ruber latex on , they had the decent morals of having cloth on for cryin out loud.

Have you even seen a gay parade? where are the morals of those people?
What credibility do I have when I march half naked on the street dressed like a woman? why dress like a woman? why do gay people dress like woman? since it's not about beeing a woman? but beeing gay, since they are not atracted to females why act like one, why tone up your voice like one?
It's hollywood i'll tell you.




[edit on 25-9-2007 by pepsi78]



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by piacenza
Unfortunaly there is a huge language barrier, English (especially in the US) is a very simple language, it’s direct and does not have much of different interpretations unlike other languages.
He phrases his answer in a poetic way (due to the idioma) that can give different meaning and interpretation to his words depending on how you want to listen to them.

I'm very glad someone brought up this point.
The language problem is a huge source of misunderstanding. The cultural misunderstandings are just as big a factor.

In Iran, it is considered very rude to give short answers that don't give background on why the answer is given. If you ask an Iranian a question, be prepared to sit back and listen for awhile. I've had personal experience with this...

I sometimes wish Ahmadinejad would study English just so he could present himself a better to the Western Audience.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by Redge777
 


Do you speak Farsi? How did you come to the conclusion on what he said if all he said was this:


PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. (Laughter.)

We don't have that in our country. (Booing.)

In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have it. (Laughter.)"


They way I see it is that he's is calling homosexuality a phenomena that they don't have in Iran. Now if he comes tomorrow and clarifies that statement then fine.

I for one don't care, this guy is a fool, and our leadership not to far behind or ahead, if you looking for this people to bring you peace are better keep cleaning my M4.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Bunch]

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Bunch]

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Bunch]



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Bunch
reply to post by Redge777
 



You know I don't see all the fuss about this, they probaly do have gay people in Iran, maybe he refused to answer that because he did not want to get embaresed? and he probaly thought it would be an embarasment to his country?
Even worse, if Iran turns out gay free , it means there is more freedom than expected if those comunities and that those gay comunities are allowed there to practice their liberty.
It would mean that it's not such a rejime like our tv sets tells us


[edit on 25-9-2007 by pepsi78]



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