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Hey, dont smoke and you wont have to worry about lung cancer, and you will not have to suck my tax dollars in for your bad habits.
If you want to smoke, or be an alcoholic, or weigh 400+ pounds and stationary, get your own private insurance, you should not be covered under a tax funded insurance program.
Accidents, victims of crime, brain-eating amoebas, and a number of natural causes of sicknesses and contagious sicknesses are all legitamate issues for which a National, tax-funded health insurance program would and should cover.
People who use and abuse manufactured substances for which they have been fully educated about how it will adversly affect their health and that of the peopel around them, should not come around years later and start crying about how they need help because they are dying or suffering from the negative habbits they chose.
If you want to smoke or binge drink regularly, go right ahead and partake in your supposedly "God-given" right, just know you may not be covered under a tax-deducted health insurance program. You will be required to seek your own private provider.
I would just like to edit my stance on the severe obesity thing. I feel that there should be no problem bringing those of which who do suffer from this under the program, so long as the individual commits to a state-sponsored obesity-reduction program which will help you to attain a healthy weight, and appropriate dietary program to assist you in maintaining a healthy stature.
I am just saying, if you truly want to be healthy, then simply dishing out money for suffering the consequences of bad habits you were educated in so that you may continue self-destruction is not the best way of going about such a thing.
Sorry, I work too hard to not be able to afford health insurance because others who do not care about their lives have enough money to pay a premium for a service that drives the costs way high.
All I am saying is, get your own insurance. Nothing says you cannt be treated in the emergency room, that already happens, but as far as coverage goes, you will just have to figure it out on your own, sicne you chose that route.
I can aonly assume you are so emotional because you partake in at least one of the activities I say should not be covered, and yet you do have health coverage.
Its ok 'mate, you have the right to live, just stop taking it away from yourself everyday. Because your friends and family have to pay for it later, and they had nothing to do with it (I hope at least).
Are you saying we should pay for it ourselves? That we should seek out expensive private insurance to get help for them?
Private insruance is expensive primarily because of selfish people who indulge in abusive and self-destructive habbits, and then they want to extend their lives suddenly with these multi-thousand dollar operations and machines that keep them alive. AND THEY STILL INDULGE IN THEIR SELF DESTRUCTION.
The whole concept of medicare, hospitals, and such is for the preservation of life, and maintaining your well being. Everytime someone who is choosing to destroy their lives everyday uses up public funds to extend their life, they are being selfish, and taking away money from others who have simply fallen victim to nature's randomness, or somebodys cruelty, whichever the thing.
I never stated anywhere that they should be denied treatment, because obviously you cannot just leave someone. But if that person is being treated for a personal illness like bad lungs as a result of heavy daily smoking, they are going to leave the Hospital with a huge lean that will not be covered utilizing public funds. Hopefully they had private insurance, or are extremely wealthy. I say a smoker must be wealthy to continue to pay for cigarettes that are ever more taxed at higher and higher rates knowing the health costs down the road. Hey though, that was their choice made with their free will.
I know I know what if the person worked in roofing or AC work and has been exposed to asbestos for years right? What if the person was a firefighter? Well obviously those jobs were nothing close to a selfish self-destructive habit, they were doing services for others, and merely trying to survive.
Binge drinking and chain smoking are not trying to survive, they are habbits trying to kill one's self. No public funds for that, I would prefer the hundreds of thouands of dollars spent on a few smokers to keep them on respirators and full of pescription drugs be spent on more effective Anti-Drug campaigns so the future generation does not make the same selfish and ignorant mistakes.
If the smokers taxes pay for existing medical services why should they not receive them too?
See now, I never said anything about denying noone treatment, it just is not there, please, for the sake of factual posts, discontinue that accusation.
I'll also raise again the issue that US citizens don't seem to mind supporting an illegal war and economic imperialism, but draw the line at looking after their fellow citizens - this makes no sense to me at all.
Consider. A person is depressed after a huge medical bill.
With the little money they have left, what looks better?
Another medical bill?
Or a cheap beer?
or 2 or 3...
Cannot infringe on their free will you know.
The huge medical bill should be an indicator of what they are doing to themselves and they should learn from it. If you refuse to learn from it, then all you do is take from yourself, and society, just because "it feels good", and that individual is a product of their choices.
It is that refusal to learn or cahnge that causes more problems for the individual. It is not as if anyone held a gun to their head
they get treated, and they see exactly what it cost to maintain that habit and stay alive. If they choose to not change, well then good luck. We all wanted better, and the individual deserved better, but if he/she refused to see it, then they will only destroy themselves no matter what we can say or do.
So in any case, save the reciepts for every single pack/carton of cigarettes purchased, and we can create a new program where that funds will be matched into a private HSA for that individual that can yield money much the same way a money market, CD, or mutual fund would do, but only allowed for medical expenses.
I mean if we are going to debate the issue, we might as well come up with ways that the personal choice must face personal responsibility, and propose the more rational and logical options.
You mean that getting lung cancer isnt facing personal responsibilty.
No that is not personal responsibility. It is a consequence of poor choices in manycases, but of course not every case. Personal responsibiltiy is makign sure the choices you knew full well would lead to those consequences, and were advised against it, is taking care of your consequences without taking from those who never wnated you to do it, and now must contribute paying for it.
Like I said, we'll make the program, you keep your tobacco reciepts, and those taxes can contribute to your own private healthcare coverage later on when you begun to suffer the lung cancer, lip cancer, jaw cancer, hole in neck, you know whatever happens to plague them later on, of which they were fully aware.
In any case, I already stated
I am the third kind of person. I do not have any health insurance of any kind. Thankfull,y I choose a healthy living, maintain a healthy weight, and excercise regularly. I really hope that an accident does not happen to me , but that would be a good reason we have the coverage, to cover accidents and natural random untameable illnesses. If a smoker breaks his arm, or gets shot, or catches a cold, theres no reason why none of that could be covered in the plan.
However, he has at LEAST 10 years to make his choices from the first day they start smoking until they begin to develop one of the forms of cancers that will result from it. everyone of those days he will be fully aware of the consequences he will face, and hopefully, If he/she knows that "hey buddy look, you know full well in some time from now you will develop some kind of cancer as a result of all this smoking, so you bette rstart saving, because our Medicare is just not goign to pay for it, it will come out of your own pocket." its a possibility they may decide to quit before it gets bad.
Of coruse if the person has not smoked for 12 years, and later on they develop some kind of cancer, whether related to this or not, of coruse they will get coverage. If that person has been smoking for 15 years, and is still smoking as they suffer from a horrible cancer or something, no they will not be covered. If you can plan to have enough money to purchase tobacco every day or week, you should plan to have enough in 10 years or so to pay for its consequences.
I see what your getting at now, and I think I am beginning to see it from a different perspective. We will definetly have to draw up a better plan for this universal health care though, as we have to make sure there will always be funds there to help every single individual who needs it. Thing is, there has to be better incentives for people to preserve their health in the first place, so as not to just make the healthcare a free pass for carelessness, arrogance, and unsafe behavior
Yea that is pretty gruesome stuff there. We definetly need plenty of that here in the states. I would not deny her care, but you cannot tell me that if she was told earlier in her life what the treatment would cost and that it would have to come out of her pocket, especiall if it meant she would not be able to retire comfortably because all the money she worked hard for just has to treat her bad habits, that she would probably have reconsidered her bad choices? even if we don't even actually force them to pay for it, maybe we should at least scare them into thinking they will?
See, I dunno how it works in australia, but if we do not put a $$$ sign behind anything, whether it be a warning, sustanability, health, education, and whatnot, most people will ignore it.
Perhaps we can add some numbers and statements to the image of the woman like:
"$10,000 out of your pocket towards the end of your life. the only retirement will be early death"
Is that like, too shocking, or does it help to make a case?