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Why Does Everyone Bow Down to the Health Insurance Industry?

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posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by apc
A society is people voluntarily working together for the common good.

The moment people are forced, it becomes something else.



Its already has become that somthing else as we are forced to pay taxes and as you said medicaid is bad so why not have a national system where your financial status doesn't dictate the level of care you recieve.

I also heard you mention about how you get your and people should just get a job and become a millionaire like its an easy thing to do. I dont think thats the reality at all, for one not everyone is born smart and lots of people need to fill the jobs most of us wont do but need done and IMO what the rich earn and scam is far greater then hardworking so called middle-class get. There are so many hardworking people who don't get propper coverage because your broken system has exploited them and simply charge to much according to what the medium income is.

If middle-class wages were more fair and taxes used better I think your countr ycould pull off a wonderfull system but who knows eh I am just a Canadian.




posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 10:39 PM
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I feel this is a very important issue that needs to be addressed directly.

"Why do politicians seem to appease the health insurance industry?"

You must understand that the health insurance industry is not an insignificant subset of the total insurance industry. Now, I have no evidence (if I did I probably couldn't reveal it anyway) to back this statement up but the facts seem to fit my conclusion:
The insurance industry is mostly populated by companies either created as intelligence agency fronts or operated mostly by intelligence assets.

The reason is obvious: Who knows more about you than your insurance company? It also allows for convenient circumvention of the protections in place against unwarranted government inquiry into your medical histories.

Eventually, a politician rallying for health care reform is informed (at least partially) of the national security implications of any major health care reform. So most mainstream politicians can only make token efforts at reform or risk being blacklisted by the cabal of power holders in DC.

Jon



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 02:24 AM
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I was an insurance doctor for very many years and found out how insurance companies buy work comp cases from lawyers (pay them off under the table) and settle the claims for much less than the patient is entitled (i.e. 4,000 instead of 20,000+ future medical care, job retraining, disability award, etc.). This is leaving the patient and his/her family with immense debts, in pain, headed for divorce and insolvency.

AND YOU WANT TO LET INSURANCE COMPANIES CONTINUE TO DO BUSINESS AS USUAL?? You need a serious brain scan.

They also send their insurance adjusters on junkets to Las Vegas whenever they save the insurer money on a big claim. Got it direct from a friend who was an adjuster on the inside, in fact several adjusters. It is a very shady industry led by profit loss managers who restrict adjusters from allowing studies to be performed on injured patients. An industry that sends injured workers to "wash-out" orthopedists to eliminate claims....and you STILL want them to manage their own industry? If you REALLY think the insurance industry can regulate itself you probably have a fox guarding your chicken house.

The insurance industry also intimidates employers with "experience modification" that alters insurance premiums upwards if injured employees are allowed to stay at home (where they need to be) instead of working at "modified" work. I remember many times being forced to send patients back to modified work despite their incredibly painful injuries. The insurer forced my own employer to force me to send them back to work...I think the appropriate word here would be "jerks"!...I am sure you would agree.

So for you few people who think insurers should STILL control medical care wait until it happens to you....you'll be singing a new tune when you are the one who is denied benefits by insurers....they must line the floors of Hell with insurance adjusters and profit loss managers because no one can treat another human being as they do and expect any salvation at final judgment.
I doubt they even go to Church.

Now you know the rest of the story......



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by apc
 


I am curious if this was in response to the link I posted apc? I don't see any of those quotes in my article. I only ask because you quoted me at bottom of your post. Or are they from the articles linked off of mine?

Just curious since you didn't provide a source.



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by SnowBall777
 


I could provide you with some disgusting stories about insurance adjusters but that's a topic for another thread


apc

posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by GAOTU789
 


They were from the OP article. The thread had become a back-and-forth over socialized medicine rather than on the original article, which I use the word article very loosely, and its distorted reporting on the insurance industry.

[edit on 26-9-2007 by apc]


apc

posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by Octavius Maximus
 


1% of your taxes or 1% of your income?

Either way you're not really paying your medical bills. Someone else is. Do you think you have a right to their money?



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 08:33 AM
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1% of your taxes or 1% of your income?

Either way you're not really paying your medical bills. Someone else is. Do you think you have a right to their money?


If i represented my taxes as a whole percentage of my taxable income, Medicare is 1% of it.

I am paying for my medical bills, and everyone elses.

Think of it this way.

We have a suit in a big company, and a construction worker.

Who gets more money? The suit

Who has more chance of injury? The construction worker

Is it right that the suit pays for the workers medical? Why yes it is. Just like the worker pays for the suit, and everyone else, and everyone else pays for everyone else.

I seriously dont understand how you can sit there saying that you should pay for your own medicine. Its laughable.



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by Octavius Maximus
 


So this works a bit like our national insurance here in the UK - except NI also covers unemployment benefit.
Every wage earner puts into the pot, and the government runs our health service with the money - and it really doesn't cost much to the individual.
I don't see how anyone can be against this sort of social healthcare - it benefits everyone and there is no opt out.
I read somewhere that the NHS has one of the biggest budgets in the world - larger than that of some countries. OK it has its faults, but what doesn't?
I'd rather spend on this than on keeping some fatcat corporate boss in cigars and mistresses



[edit on 26/9/2007 by budski]



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 09:09 AM
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So this works a bit like our national insurance here in the UK - except NI also covers unemployment benefit.


Ah, no we also have the Healthcare concession card (which costs nothing) for those who are under a certain amount of income.

Same deal, you just dont have to pay the 1% heheh



Every wage earner puts into the pot, and the government runs our health service with the money - and it really doesn't cost much to the individual.
I don't see how anyone can be against this sort of social healthcare - it benefits everyone and there is no opt out.


Because some people, for some reason, like watching people die around them due to inadequate health care.



I read somewhere that the NHS has one of the biggest budgets in the world - larger than that of some countries. OK it has its faults, but what doesn't?
I'd rather spend on this than on keeping some fatcat corporate boss in cigars and mistresses


Damn right, our doctors are concerned with saving the patients, not "Just keep them alive enough to sign a check"



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by Octavius Maximus
 


Ok, your system is more like the irish system where those on low income or unemployed get a medical card which entitles them to free prescritions and dentists etc although medical care is free for all, prescription costs are not.

Can you recommend any links so I can read about it?





posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 09:21 AM
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I've been a health insurance broker for the past 21 years here in
Illinois. The system isn't perfect, but the costs for healthcare are
rising faster than people can come to grips with. I have one couple
who are paying $1,900 a month for their health insurance, but have
over $60,000 in annual medical expenses due to a myriad of ongoing
health conditions. One client at our agency has a $10,000 deductible.
She met her annual deductible during the first 2 weeks of this year
because her medicine is $18,000 per pill. Two Pills per month. It's
a cancer drug that avoids the need for chemo, missing work, etc..

So whom do we blame? Physicians? Pharmaceutical companies?
I've come to the conclusion that it's our "will to live" that seems to
be at the root of it all. In any free enterprise system, if the demand
is great, the cost for the service/product demanded will be very high.
Just look at gasoline. So what do we do? Just let nature take its
course with minimal medical intervention if/when serious illness
is diagnosed? I guess that would be akin to "going on strike"
against the medical industry. Not a chance of this happening on a
large scale, but we can do some research and find ways to stave
off most illnesses through proper nutrition.

My best advice is to get a high-deductible HSA qualified health plan
and put money in the bank to cover the deductible. Family of 4 in
Illinois is under $250 a month in premium dollars. Hospitals treat
people much better when they have health insurance. They don't
send you to a collection agency as fast either if they get $40,000
from the gall-bladder operation from the insurance company and
all you owe them is $5,000 - $10,000. In fact, the hospital "forgave"
the $7,000 deductible for a client who had cervical tumors removed
this Summer. The ins co paid $37,000 to the hosp/doctors for this
operation. She's only 22 out of college, so the medical people
reduced the price by $7,000 at the end to wipe out the deductible.
She hugged me this past weekend for "pestering her" to get
insurance in 2006. Well..I have to go now and find more people to
pester. Just thought I'd write this before leaving the house. Ciao all.
-CWM


apc

posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by carewemust
My best advice is to get a high-deductible HSA qualified health plan
and put money in the bank to cover the deductible. Family of 4 in
Illinois is under $250 a month in premium dollars.


Ding Ding Ding!

People should be responsible for the little medical bills like doctor's visits and routine checkups. That way it's the individual's responsibility to live a healthy life. The inpatient hospital care and other expensive costs are what health insurance should protect against.

 


Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Is it right that the suit pays for the workers medical? Why yes it is. Just like the worker pays for the suit, and everyone else, and everyone else pays for everyone else.

Uh no. It is not right to force the anyone to pay for the anyone else's medical bills. If it is a voluntary act, wonderful. But you have no right to force it on them. Especially if the mandatory theft is unevenly distributed. Someone who makes a hundred thousand dollars a year is no more liable for the care of others than someone who makes twelve.



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 11:15 AM
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The way I feel; if my Taxes are used to pay for the salaries and healthcare of the politico's in Washington; why should they get more favorable treatment than the taxpayers.

If my taxes are used to pay for some dumbass reasearch project, $600 nuts and bolts for the military/industrial complex, bridges that fall down,
roads to nowhere, poor mail service, almost nonexistent border security,
Millions for a homeland security that is a bunch of buffoons searching grandma at the airport, subsidized crops that aren't grown, corporate welfare, tax dollar bailouts of failing company's, I could go on forever.....
Why not a health care system that at least provides some relief to the taxpayer, instead of making the HMOs one of growth industries in this country with obscene salaries and stock options to the execs and actually poor service to the people that pay into the HMOs, and insurance company's that don't pay for treatment even though they have been receiving premiums from me for years.

The health care system in America is broken.


apc

posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 12:07 PM
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The health care system in America is just fine. The people are broken. But it's the politicians that are breaking them.

Although I agree, HMOs can go to Hell. I don't know why someone would willingly enroll in an HMO. Might as well get on Medicaid. Probably get better care *choke*.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 08:06 AM
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Ok, your system is more like the irish system where those on low income or unemployed get a medical card which entitles them to free prescritions and dentists etc although medical care is free for all, prescription costs are not.


But showing your Medicare card gives you a very large discount on prescriptions.



Can you recommend any links so I can read about it?


Sorry, im afraid anything i give you would not accuratly portray the life of the medical in Australia.

Come and live here for a while




Uh no. It is not right to force the anyone to pay for the anyone else's medical bills.


But it is right to force people either:

1. Into Poverty due to sickness
2. Die and/or suffer

That sounds real ethical.


But you have no right to force it on them.


Why yes we do, we will give people health no matter what they want



Especially if the mandatory theft is unevenly distributed.


Huh? Mandatory Theft?

OOOOH! Taxes, you mean. I live in Sydney, the most heavily taxed country in the world. I dont really complain, simply because i get the benefits.

Its not unevenly destributed, everyone gets the same health care if they go to a public hospital. If they go to a private, then they pay extra, thats their choice.


. Someone who makes a hundred thousand dollars a year is no more liable for the care of others than someone who makes twelve.


But the man who makes a hundred thousand a year would be greatful for the help, even though he can afford it. The man who makes 12 will be able to keep going without a real dent in his bank.



The health care system in America is just fine. The people are broken. But it's the politicians that are breaking them.


yeah, its the peoples fault for being sick! The bastards!

Still, you pay for your operations, you pay for your prescriptions...and you get WORSE care than UK, than Australia, than alot of Europe.

Have fun.


apc

posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 08:32 AM
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Noone forces people to not have care. They do it to themselves.

You don't complain because you are a leech. You pay a portion of your care costs. Someone else pays the rest. You have no right to their money.

Someone who makes a hundred thousand a year worked their butts off to earn that much. They deserve every penny of it. They, like I, would feel like the scum of the Earth to let other people pay our bills when we are fully capable of paying them ourselves. And we'd be right.

If a poor person robs a rich person at gunpoint to buy food for their family, is that right?

I say that poor person needs to... GET A JOB.

Socialized medicine is armed robbery. The Government is the gun.



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 09:04 AM
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Intresting topic.
It would sound way off for me if my family doctor would tell me that he has to ask for permison from some corporation to treat me and that I have to take it up with them first before I come in for treatment.

I mean it's simple, you go to the doctor, you get analised, you get treatment, end of story, no corporations, no inssurance, it's part of the public service.
Medicine is so cheap too, because there is no corporation telling me if my doctor should prescribe me anything or not, there is no need for a middle person since the doctor is trained for such events.

I mean, 5000$$$ for a broken leg
you guys are riped off seriosly.
This is how it works.
There is a tax, let's say a country has a population of 20 milion people, from that population of 20 milion people all pay an anual tax that is an afortable fee for everyone.
From 20 milion people let's say 25% in that period of the year will have problems with their helth, this is way too high any way, it would mean that one in a group of 4 people would have health problems, those 25% with what they pay would not be suficient but the other 75% is also paying the tax, so when you get treatment you get the benefits from your tax + the benefit from the other 75% it would mean that the other 15 milion people are paying for you and for the other 25% .
I'l just give an example let's say those 15 milion people pay 100 dolars anualy, the outcome would be 15.00.000.000 dolars for 5 milion people that are in trouble + 100 dolars from their own tax.
In reality the tax is a bit higher but notthing to be alarmed for, and of course the number of people having trouble is much lower.

You people are telling me that this does not work?
It's the best sistem, and it will always work, no corporations no thousands of dolars for a broken arm, no huge inssurance, and no inssurance corporation scams, simply because others pay for your health, it's the same with inssurance, but the corporation is the middle man and the price is higher because they got to make profit off of you, because that is what a corporation does, it makes profit.






[edit on 27-9-2007 by pepsi78]



posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 09:28 AM
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Noone forces people to not have care. They do it to themselves.


Actually, here we do force people to care. Noone complains about caring for others, its all part of the service and everyone benefits.

If everyone is better and has better access to medicine, illnesses spread slower or maybe not at all, net gain for all of society.



You don't complain because you are a leech. You pay a portion of your care costs. Someone else pays the rest. You have no right to their money.


...thanks for the dig, jerk.

Your seeing it from the stupid point of view


Look, every person puts in their amount to the national fund, the government puts in more as an overhead and for R&D. People gain. Why are you holding onto such a primitive system?



Someone who makes a hundred thousand a year worked their butts off to earn that much.


Or sued, or lied, or cheated, etc. Stop generalising.


They deserve every penny of it. They, like I, would feel like the scum of the Earth to let other people pay our bills when we are fully capable of paying them ourselves.


So, you see medicine and healthy wellbeing as being a 'bill' and not a fact of life?

Thats misguided. It is the governments job to protect its people, how can it do that when they are sick and dying?



If a poor person robs a rich person at gunpoint to buy food for their family, is that right?


so adding 1% to your taxes is equivilent to holding someone at gunpoint?

dear god...you really need to see a doctor




I say that poor person needs to... GET A JOB.


What if they cant because their medical condition limits their abilities? They cant get a job to pay for their medicine so they can get a job?

Why dont you just let them die in the streets? thats the good way to go about it, isnt it?



Socialized medicine is armed robbery. The Government is the gun.


You poor soul...i really wish i could help you. But if you stay in America i cant afford it


Come to Australia
Land of the golden sunshine and happy, healthy people.

EDIT:

Well, if you wish to know. The Medicare system isnt mandatory here. But i dont know one person who doesnt get it, and who isnt grateful for it.


[edit on 27-9-2007 by Octavius Maximus]


apc

posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 11:48 AM
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Thanks for reminding me what socialist totalitarianism looks like.

When you get on in years and some politician decides you're too old for that heart or hip transplant, you deserve your fate. You asked for it.



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