It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by apc
It's true the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. But it's because the rich work their butts off and the poor won't get off theirs.
Originally posted by budski
but should this be extended to social medical schemes?
In the richest country, people should not be dying because of a lack of adequate medical care just because they can't afford insurance.
Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version
“ I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.
I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.
I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.
Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.
What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.
If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.
Several parts of the oath have been removed or re-shaped over the years in various countries, schools, and societies as the social, religious, and political importance of medicine has changed. Most schools administer some form of oath, but the great majority no longer use the ancient version, which praised Greek deities, advocated teaching of men, and forbade general practitioners from surgery, abortion, and euthanasia. Also missing from the ancient Oath and from many modern versions are the complex ethical issues that face the modern physician.
Changed portions of the oath:
1. To teach medicine to the sons of my teacher. In the past, medical schools would give preferential consideration to the children of physicians.
2. Not to teach medicine to other people. If taken literally, a physician who attempts to educate or make aware of treatment options, even informally, to anyone not enrolled in medical school would lose his or her license.
3. To practice and prescribe to the best of my ability for the good of my patients, and to try to avoid harming them. This beneficial intention is the purpose of the physician. However, this item is still invoked in the modern discussions of euthanasia.
4. Never to do deliberate harm to anyone for anyone else's interest. Physician organizations in most countries have strongly denounced physician participation in legal executions. However, in a small number of cases, most notably Oregon and the Netherlands, a doctor can perform euthanasia, by both his and the patient's consent.
5. Never to attempt to induce an abortion. This item is still invoked in the modern discussions of abortion.
6. To avoid violating the morals of my community. Many licensing agencies will revoke a physician's license for offending the morals of the community ("moral turpitude").
7. To avoid attempting to do things that other specialists can do better. The "stones" referred to are kidney stones or bladder stones, removal of which was judged too difficult for physicians, and therefore was left for surgeons (specialists). The value of specialization was recognized in that time. The range of knowledge and skills needed for the range of human problems has always made it impossible for any single physician to maintain expertise in all areas. This also highlights the different historical origins of the surgeon and the physician.
8. To keep the good of the patient as the highest priority. There may be other conflicting 'good purposes,' such as community welfare, conserving economic resources, supporting the criminal justice system, or simply making money for the physician or his employer that provide recurring challenges to physicians.
9. To avoid sexual relationships or other inappropriate entanglements with patients and families. The value of avoiding conflicts of interest isn't often questioned.
Originally posted by Slickinfinity
Why do you seem so adamant on not paying for poor peoples healthcare through taxes but you let your government run earmark after earmark and this costly war and look at your deficit! Why aren't you all up in arms storming congress over this stuff but instead you want to keep privitized corporate health care thats PROFIT DRIVEN! I just can't see profit driven health care being all that effective compared to socialized but thats just me.
Originally posted by apc
But profit is the best most powerful human motivator. Health care would not be as expensive as it is today if it weren't for these dirtbag ambulance chasing lawyers like John Edwards.
Originally posted by whaaa
The real reason we don't have a national health care service is because the Pharmaceutical co. HMOs and the insurance company's Lobby the lawmakers, contribute to those politicians they can buy with campaign contributions.
The Kaiser survey found three out of five employers (60%) offered coverage, down from 69% five years earlier, with most losses in small companies. Among employers with 200 or more workers, 98% offer health coverage.
This year, the average annual premium for family coverage hit $10,880, with employers paying an average of 74% of that cost and workers paying the rest. Workers this year paid on average $2,713 toward family coverage, or $1,094 more than they paid five years ago, the survey found.
Helen Darling, head of the National Business Group on Health in Washington, says those numbers may be low.
"The average we see is more like $12,000 per family," says Darling,
Growth in health insurance costs outpaced inflation and wage growth.
Will I be arrested if I resist paying $10,000 a year for a private policy laden with killer co-pays and deductibles?
Private health insurance is only for people who aren’t likely to ever get sick.
Yes, it is big. Leighton Ku, at the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, gave me the figure of $776 billion in expenditures on private health insurance for this year.
It’s also a big-time employer, paying what economist Paul Krugman has estimated two to three million people just turn down claims.
Originally posted by GAOTU789
Coupled with things like the illegal immigrants in your country, which your tax dollars pay to provide health care to but don't pay taxes in return, puts a heavy burden on the middle class of America.