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The Fifth of November?

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posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 01:17 PM
reply to post by AcesInTheHole

1 is dead on accurate and a few are very close.

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Redge777
I ran down the font used according to previous poster I took screen shots of web pages so I did not post the whole thing here.

This is my idea of the choice of font if it is not coincidence.

Use of the web for common people to do leg work for intelligence community, or elites. Is my best guess.

Hi Redge,

thanks for following up on that. I doubt very much the font was used by chance. It's not part of the standard fonts in most windows programs up to XP at least -- I don't know about Vista -- so aside from aesthetics I'd guess Bill had his reasons. (Maybe to have us wondering why he chose that font!
) wanting to discourage you
,I actually wouldn't read too much into the "licensing" part...that mainly refers to using the Cygnet Round font for embroidery programs (for computer-run embroidering machines) where the end-user will be making money from it. So it's a very specialized application of its use. For general non-commercial use you can download it and use it free.

Easy to install, too. Just download, unzip the file and leave it on your desktop, then go into the control panel to fonts, open it and lift and drop it in. Works fine...

Back to considerations: yes, the site I linked to mentions The Artful Bodger as the one who contributed it, and I think that might have some relevance. I appreciate your line of thinking there.

I've been spending most of the day on rather more uninteresting stuff, working on some anagram decoding theories for the message. The anagram doesn't have to be random, you see...

After writing out the message and recopying it to fill a page I printed off a few copies and have been trying combinations of "11" and "5" spaces. (Because the key date is 11/5 or if you prefer, 5/11.) It might seem a dumb approach but actually such codes can be as simple as a repeated two-number interval and still be a heck of a job to crack without a sure key word.

Because of references to "imagine" on this thread, I started working with the "i" letters in the "dollnean" message and tried going 11 then 5 spaces from each one to see if any of those "i"'s is a starting point for unscrambling the code. Oh, I also went "5" and "11" and tried it both forwards and backwards, and checked for any possibilities with 1 then 1 then 5 as the intervals.

Anyway, I tried all those "i" letters and no luck. So next I'll do what maybe I should have done to begin with and go for "revolution", using the same methods. After all, there is only one letter "r" so it makes it easier. (Stupid of me not to think of that angle earlier. Slaps forehead...CLANNG!!) "Revolution" seems a likely word and would possibly fit as part of a definition of the "spheres" image.

Sooo...I'll get back to it and see if it produces anything. I can easily print off more pages of "dollnean" phrases so if anyone has any other suggestions for number intervals then please say so. Same goes for a variant on this approach. If I don't get back tonight (it's after 8.30 pm here already and haven't had dinner yet) then I'll drop by in the morning (my time).

Regards, and many thanks again for some great woik!
(Duhh..."work", even...)

And the same to everyone else!! Yeah!!

[edit on 19-10-2007 by JustMike]

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 01:48 PM

Originally posted by JustMike
"Revolution" seems a likely word and would possibly fit as part of a definition of the "spheres" image.

I think "revolution" is a likely word, but I don't think it "literally" fits in a sphere image. I think "The Above Network" IS the revolution, or at least the genesis of the revolution (center sphere).

I'm also willing to bet the dollnean thing is probably something SO said (or at the very least - referred to) in one of the ATS Mix podcasts.

Not much, mind you. But I'd bet.

[Edit to fix typo. Gaah! Damn work distracting me.]

[edit on 10/19/2007 by yeahright]

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 02:40 PM
You guys... And gals... You're all so wrong! It's my birthday of course! Thanks ATS for remembering! I love you guys!

Not sure if it is mentioned but... There is a lot going around about donating to Ron Paul on the 5th too...

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 03:14 PM
At work we pooled some words for the phrase. Most came from our crossword-person in IT. There can only be so many possibilities working from the general to specific was what her thought was.

Here's the pool words, we couldn't figure out how the coma placement could be correct no matter how we moved the terms and order about. Getting the order correct seems even more difficult than the terms


"revoultion evolution imagine ideation semantic imagine content ATS power"

There were some wildcards: "you world media ignites and" with some others that might work. The hypen syntax might indicate that the dollnean is a global modifier for the terms that follow. Quotes could fit or the terms after the hyper could define the term before the hyphen.

[edit on 19-10-2007 by lurk0more]

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 03:16 PM
reply to post by lurk0more

Now that is what I like...A new member that JUMPS right in..
Love to have ya here!

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 03:47 PM
It's good to be here. Thanks for the welcome. It beats lurking and wanting to participate but not making the investment for me. I read this thread since it started and it seems fun.

If it's a quote then the quoted person might have a one term name like Sting or Cher. That didn't seem to fit. If the reason for the spheres existence is the phrase then a quote seems unlikely.

I may have missed it in my reading but do we know all the letters and syntax appear in the solved phrase? That would narrow the focus considerably and give a fixed set of character variables to select from. Sorry, if I missed that. If not this puzzle would be a true key-challenge.

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 03:48 PM

Originally posted by yeahright
I think "revolution" is a likely word, but I don't think it "literally" fits in a sphere image. I think "The Above Network" IS the revolution, or at least the genesis of the revolution (center sphere).

I'm also willing to bet the dollnean thing is probably something SO said (or at the very least - referred to) in one of the ATS Mix podcasts.

Not much, mind you. But I'd bet.

Yeah Right, I agree that the word "revolution" doesn't need to be in one of the spheres. SO said the "dollnean" phrase defines -- not describes but defines -- what the "spheres" image represents, with the image itself presenting the phrase's concept in a simplified form... It makes sense, though, that the Above Network could take the centre square... Doesn't have to, of course, but it makes sense.

When talking about "revolution" I am referring to trying to place it in the phrase itself, rather than in the blurred words in the "spheres" image. That's what I've been working on.

While "revolution" and many other neat words can be derived from the "dollnean" phrase, I have not yet found a regular, simple or binomial interval pattern that will work and produce it (or "imagine, "the", "ethics", "media" or "content") from the phrase as it is, whether run forward or backwards... Having said that, there are a huge number of possibilities and there is no way I've covered them all, but if it's a regular interval code that was used it seems to make sense that we should be able to discover it from clues given. It could be trinomial but that ought to be around the limit I'd say. At least I hope so!!

In order to run a full series of tries, we need to find a word that will almost definitely be in the "dollnean" phrase -- regardless of whether it seems to fit any of the spheres or not. I'd be most happy for one that contains one of the unusual letters -- like "b". Any suggestions welcome.

Also I agree with your earlier post that the thing is probably a pure anagram and it seems likely that the word lengths and therefore word numbers it shows would work out to be right when unscrambled. From a syntax point of view it's okay (if the text is reversed). Back a few posts ago I listed a range of possibilities for how that message was created, but I tend to think that there are so many thousands of words that can be created from an anagram of that length that no further messing around with it was really necessary.

Whatever, I go along with the anagram thing, which is why I've focused on that. I'm rapt that others have been able to do so much with the "spheres"
; I'm just better at thinking on the scrambled phrase so I've made it my focus...I think some ideas from the "spheres" work may spring the key word for the dollnean phrase -- and it need not be a word that is in one of the spheres.

I haven't been able to view that apparently key MIX program with Springer being interviewed. I posted about this earlier today so I'm hoping Mr Rabbit will drop by and offer some advice about accessing it from the link he gives in his pages. The thing doesn't work for me.

Well, ladies and gentlemen and others, it being late I'm going to watch something mindless on the tube and switch off my brain for a while. But I pwomise (scout's honor!) to be back on this again tomorrow...

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 04:38 PM
I need some help with a question. I may have missed it in my reading but do we know all the letters and syntax appear in the solved phrase?

A guess:

Ideation- Revolution ATS, crowd semantic content creation ,create media imagine evolution

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 05:50 PM

Originally posted by JustMike

In order to run a full series of tries, we need to find a word that will almost definitely be in the "dollnean" phrase -- regardless of whether it seems to fit any of the spheres or not. I'd be most happy for one that contains one of the unusual letters -- like "b". Any suggestions welcome.

Just thinking here, but SO said the phrase was the company's "raison d'etre" (pg. 47), their mission statement if you will, so how about "missions"? Also, could the last four word be "create daily content headlines"?

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 06:32 PM
Ok guys...I Have no idea why this popped into my head, and I have not solved the spheres yet...
This is a complete shot in the dark at the dollnean thing.

"Imagine creating a user-generated content media Revolution."
I know there are not enough letters and words..but that could be part of the cryptics of it...added letters to confuse.

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 06:48 PM
I,spilt some paint.

Are,any but the middle one right?

and where does the word Podthread fit if anywere ?

[edit on 19-10-2007 by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H]

[edit on 19-10-2007 by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H]

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 07:03 PM
I've been working on this on and off and figured I might as well post what I have with the hopes that it might help someone else, because I am getting nowhere. First off, I've been looking at the quote from Springer. The main problem comes in because we don't know if it is a cryptogram or an anagram. If you assume it's an anagram you run into trouble because the frequency of the letters does not match up with what you would expect. i.e. There is only one R in the whole phrase, but r is the third most commonly used letter.

Also, the spacing and punctuation do not appear to be accurate. Try making a coherent statement that only includes 1 three-letter word and no two-letter words. Possible, but not likely. Also, the second comma bothers me because it looks like there is a space before it instead of after (I admit this may just be due to the font). For these reasons I feel that we have to ignore the placement of spaces and punctuation when trying to solve this.

I did not have any luck solving it as a cryptogram either. Perhaps it is some combination of the two? I don't know if they would be that tricky, or if it would even be solvable, but it's something I'm going to investigate further.

And for the circle chart, I noticed that some of the moderators have an image of this as their avator, but it cycles with other images so it is hard to catch. This image appears to be slightly clearer than the one provided to us by Springer. I captured a screenshot of it, but it lost a lot of resolution in the process. It appears that the center circle just says ATS (but with the font that's in the logo at the top of the page). I don't have a very good photo editing program so I was unable to determine anything else.

Hopefully this helps someone, good luck!

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 07:10 PM
Wow. That's great AD. If it isn't part of the slogan then it sure sounds like part of a credible maxim. I was Googling for a couple of hours trying to find some emerging patterns or clues to the keystone.

I wish I could get and send u2u's and ask questions without repeating myself on the thread. I'll need to wait until my point value increases.

Beyond guessing, which is fine with me, isn't discovering the consistent rule applied to generate the sequence the shortcut? I don't know the system. If even one word could be validated as correct then the balance should reasonably follow.

Either the syntax was grammatically incorrect in the original graphic at the second instance of the comma or perhaps the syntax used represents some other character?

There is one term with three letters and none of singular or two characters. The term with three letters may be the easiest to solve for. Is that reverse-engineering?
Does anyone feel that the term "ATS" is likely to be in the word scramble? And is "revolution"?

Guess again:

Dynamite- Revolution ATS, share semantic content ideation ,create media ignites evolution]

[edit on 19-10-2007 by lurk0more]

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 07:28 PM
reply to post by lurk0more

Thanks well it is always worth a shot. If you want to increase your points real fast..come to BTS.You could make up your u2u quota real fast...

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 08:55 PM
Another guess, with assumptions of six terms and that all characters in the original jumble are in the final solved statement.

Assumed terms: "revolution ATS content ideation evolution imagine" (43 letters)

When removed from:

"dollnean- ngcniualcy evo, evoui shleeoig cnteint itdntion ,crtoea ayald bpisgni esstefmnf"

Leaves a remainder (not including punctuation) of the following (39 letters):


I hope this post saves someone else some effort.

Edit: If the phrase order is rational then the term after each coma should be a verb or a derivative noun-verb like "Google". I like "share" and "create". I'm positive there could be exceptions to this, an example: Anything said by Yoda in the movies.

[edit on 19-10-2007 by lurk0more]

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 09:46 PM


[edit on 19-10-2007 by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H]

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 10:41 PM
This has been my main focus for at least two weeks now (don’t tell the Boss), and also lots of midnight oil as well. After a couple hundred hours, I was hoping to present a viable solution set, but the quarry has evaded. Since we are only 17 days or so from November 5th, and it appears no one will come close enough soon enough to “win” an invitation to NYC at their own expense, I’m going to share what I have as you all have done – and perhaps we can beat the clock and reach some consensus on a most probable approximation. It’s what ATS is best at and you folks are the best of the best. Incidentally, one of things I did, thanks to all of you, was to build a “document of clues” to refer to while working on this. In other words, I simply cut out and pasted into a Word doc ONLY the viable-sounding clues, hints, tips, and any other pertinent fact that might help guide me to a solution. I also inserted my own observations, comments, and feedback into the document to keep me organized. As of today this document is an incredible 15 pages long – and still growing! I would advise anyone serious about this to consider doing the same – it really helps not having to sift through insignificant (but good-natured) ramblings, multiple pages loading, all of the ‘window dressing’ on each post – stuff like that. So where am I presently?

First off – there is no avoiding making several assumptions when trying to solve the cipher character string given to us by His ATS Eminence – our very own Skeptic Overlord. My approach was to assume a few imponderables, and then proceed until exhausted before moving on to the next one. Before I talk about the cipher, however, I must say some of you have done some great work on the “spheres”. Like many of you, I extracted everything I could from the sphere graphic, and SO has succeeded in obscuring the individual sphere labels quite well. I’ve run the graphic through several beefy software packages, enhanced and modified and pixel-analyzed until I’m blue in the face. I even blew the image as sharp as I could get it onto a large screen in the office with a hi-res, hi-ratio overhead projector – it was no use. The closest I got was applying a 3D extrusion routine to the labels (looks like some of you have done that as well), then flipped it to a negative, and then embossed the result. BTW – thanks Vic for the focusing tip: wish it could actually perform the magic its name implied. OK – now for our little word puzzle:

My first assumption was that we are dealing with a straight character string, no spaces or punctuation to consider, at least at the outset, and that by laying out the ciphers in several configurations, one might detect a pattern from which to continue study. Using the CIA Kryptos model mentioned earlier (seemed like an appropriate one to try), I placed the string in a spreadsheet, one character per cell, then shifted down and over, and repeated the string for several iterations, and then examined and played with the result to see what might emerge.

I did the same thing with the character string in reverse, since several posters in the thread seemed to agree that the string, especially considering SO’s punctuation, looked more promising backwards than forwards. I also attempted alternating the strings both forwards and backwards, looking for vertical spelling, diagonal spellings, even hunted for spirals and unusual configurations (e.g., spelling “A – T – S”) etc. Below is a sample of this early in progress.

I next concentrated on a simple anagram substitution exercise, but needed to determine, like many of you, whether SO was including spaces between his “words” as an indicator of actual word-letter counts in the solution, or if he was scrambling to entire string and just throwing spaces in there to throw us off. Obviously, solving for hidden words in the entire string without limitations of a one-to-one correlation between the given string and the solution, though presenting its own challenges, is easier than trying to find a logical grouping as given. Particularly vexing was the absence of any words with fewer than three letters! The 11 words to work with (1@10 letters, 1@9, 3@8, 2@7, 1@6, 2@5, and 1@3 letters) meant that except for “the”, “ATS” or perhaps a few others, we were going to be severely impacted in the cadence and semantics possibilities in finding a solution. And, as I’m sure many of you now appreciate, we also need to make a boatload of assumptions for keywords. I’m in agreement with most of you that certain words have better odds of appearing than others, so I went with what looked and sounded best with the few clues we have and languished from there. Words like “revolution”, “imagine”, “digital”, “ATS”, were reasonable staring points and the exercise simply meant many hours of plugging other appropriate choices into the remaining slots until a meaningful sentence was formed. A portion of my worksheet performing this exercise in the early stages is below. This, like the remaining methods, all assumed that there was a direct correlation between the given letters in the ciphered text and the corresponding letter in the ultimate solution (just like the Hotel cipher “clue” a few pages back. In other words, because there is only one “R” for example in the cipher string, once used in a solution word, it was then verboten from being used again in the remaining deciphered word attempts.

Finally, mostly to break some of the monotony and drudgery of extracting word-for-word potential solutions from the above method, I also attempted an anagram extraction using the entire string of 76 letters. This was the most fun, but I still don’t think I have anything definitive. My guess is that when we finally are privileged enough to be appropriately ‘enlightened’, that we’ll discover many of the words were included, and we were tripped up by a few obscure additions that impacted our remaining letter choice. Like some of you, I’m sure, I didn’t simply plow through a dictionary for I never would have made it as far doing so, even though I often felt like the SETI@home crowd, forever crunching endless possibilities to ultimately just being teased to an inconclusive end.

The iterative anagram algorithm in the spreadsheet is just a simple RDBMS routine that has a VB front-end that compares a potential deciphered extraction to a word list, removes the word from the ciphered string, presents you with remaining letters and a letter/word count, upon which the process is repeated. Simple as that sounds, it is by no means definitive or easy. The table below shows the process using just one iteration set:

So, with this trial, I have an “N” left over after coming up with a semi-sensible sentence like, “IMAGINE A REVOLUTION IN GLOBAL DIGITAL CONTENT, DENIED EFFECTS…” yadda yadda – this one certainly isn’t it. But you can see that there is a methodology to the deciphering. I start with a library of words that can be made out of the 76 given letters –in this case, 112,613 English words in the database can be deciphered. After entering “Revolution”, I have 66 letters remaining, and a possible 56, 911 words that can be extracted from the remaining letters. And so on.

Well, using this method, I put together a bunch of sentences. IMO, some of the best ones were especially disappointing at the end when it became evident that I would have a consonant or two left over – essentially nullifying that trial. The table below shows a piece of the solution set I was coming up with:

Of course, as is obvious by now, most trials used what I affectionately refer to now as some of “my favorite words” (“imagine”, “revolution”, “ATS”, etc). Like some of you, I kept going back to the same first few choices (as you’ll see below). It’s just as possible, of course, likely even, that we’re all barking up trees in the wrong forest altogether, and most of these words are not in the solution at all. That would be sad, since we are all trudging along with the same set of meager “clues” and these choices seem logical, eh Watson? In any case, for those that want to have a crack at it – here are some of the better solutions, all of which manage to use all of the exact same 76 original letters in the cipher string. You may find the results amusing – I know I couldn’t help but laugh with what I was left to choose from after getting 80-90% through a trial:












And this one is kind of cool, only because of the acronym made from the remaining letters at the end (“NYPD”):


In any case, I’m sure none of these are correct – they just sound too goofy. And I wasn’t able to use some of my better choices for potential words (e.g., “”LISTEN”, “MEDIA”, etc.) at least not so far, because when I plugged them in it more quickly reduced the good potential in the remaining words in the database. Clearly, however, if I abandoned a “favorite” word or two, I can utilize these instead. Another problem was that the distribution of vowels made it very difficult to distribute them among a logical grouping of words. Especially if you start using small words, like “A”, “AN”, to any degree, it eats up your remaining vowel choices and your left with a bucket of stand-alone consonants. Not good.

So there you have it. My work thus far. I sure hope one of my sharp ATS buddies on this thread can use some of this info – perhaps build off of it some more. I’m always amazed at the resourcefulness and brain power of my ATS compatriots – keep up the good work. One of us will win an invitation – and if not: well then we can all toast each other from home for giving it our strong ATS best!

[edit on 10/20/2007 by Outrageo]

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 10:44 PM
Background bits and pieces: Purdue Writer's Lab "Using Commas" and "Using Hyphens"

The question about a "farquartic-quatrain" took some effort. I looked because I have a casual interest in prophesy. I read the passage and it seemed to be about Hee Haw TV series references so I visited some fan sites to explore. There was a character on Hee Haw named Charlie Farquharson aka "The Parry Sound Farmer" on a fan site page with photo. The actor was Don Harron which fit owing to earlier "don" and "red herring" post mentions. I did a genealogic search and found at a Clan Farquharson site that

Clan Farquharson, of Celtic origin, derives from Farquhar, fourth son of Alexander Ciar, 3rd Shaw of Rothiemurchus.
A Google search of Farquharson and quatrain leads to a Project Gutenberg Etext called "Anomalies and Curiosities of Medicine" which has a French quatrain that has unusual words that may mean something as it contains the word "meme".

La nature, peu sage et sans douse en debauche
Placa le foie au cote gauche,
Et de meme, vice versa
Le coeur a le droite placa

I can't say what that means. I hope this means something or I hope no one else needs to repeat the search.
Hee Haw. Ha ha.

Tomorrow onto crowd sourcing, IDF and RDF!

posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 10:51 PM
Outrageo that's awesome. I have a piece of paper, a pen and EditPad. I feel like Wile E. Coyote with the tiny umbrella. Applause! Outrageo!
Can other terms be plugged in Outrageo?

[edit on 19-10-2007 by lurk0more]

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