An Incredible Tale of Valor

If I had died, it would have been no different that if I had lost a race with a train."

reply to post by Trauma

Hi Trauma,
All of these heros men and women were not thinking about war politics when they were doing their all to save this soldier. They were doing what they considered to be their duty personally and professionally. Give them credit when a lot of credit is due! I'm sure they all dearly wanted to save this man in spite of the danger!

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
In this case, the cause was that of one man's life.

Right but who sung the praises of Nazi doctors and medics who so efficiently bandaged up German soldiers and sent them right back to fight as effectively as they did? Should we not consider the cause the bravery and valor served?

Every single person who was involved took on the risks willingly.

At least the German army consisted of draftee's who faced stuff punishment for refusing to serve their country. I acknowledge the fact that refusing to serve in Iraq will result in serious penalties for even volunteers but once again i must ask that we consider the cause and not just actions taken in it's name.

Those individuals are heroes and I have nothing but pity for those who are unable to recognize valor when they see it or hear of it.

Hero's to the vast majority of the worlds population that is dead set against this war of aggression, to say nothing of the 600 000- 1 000 000 dead Iraqi's, or hero's to a American public that wants the war ended and their children and husbands back home?

That is true spiritual poverty.

Rather spiritually poor than fighting on the side of oppression and tyranny. I don't obviously consider myself 'spiritually poor' but the world would probably be no , and in my estimation rather better, worse place if everyone 'lacked spirit' and simply stayed home. If we can rob tyrants and dictators of their armies and self serving functionaries they are probably going to have to stay at home as well for lack of people to do their inhuman dirty work.

Stellar

if a mob boss orderd his guys to rob a bank,one was shot, another help ped save his life risking his own in the process.he maybe a hero to his men.i dont see this any diffrently.

A guy i used to work with was blown up in a road side bomb,he was young,bit stupid but a sweet innocent guy, he died for someone elses cause,

just because they have uniforms and the orders from their current government does not make them heroes, capable of brave acts yes

Originally posted by PORCUPINEPIE
What are you thinking to suggest that only heros are in the military.

That's not what i suggested or even said.

I would say absolutely these men are heros and thank God that the story was told.

And i am sure there is a reason your involving God in saving the lives of those who are killing others? You have every right to consider them hero's but i hope you understand that it's a minority opinion that is simply not shared by the majority of humanity.

I believe that we all have a hero in us, but most are unsung.

It's decidedly 'unheroic', in the conventional militaristic sense, to stay home and take care of your family and neighbours but that's exactly what i recommend for these men and most others.

These men have integriy, compassion, honor, and a love for their country, as well as humanity.

The same integrity, compassion, honor and love of their country that most soldiers display when they conquer foreign nations and subject their citizens to oppression.

They possessed all these qualities before they enlisted, have it today, and will have it always. These are true American citizens, not just military men, but Americans!

Well i still have a quite a high opinion of American citizens and this i believe is reflected in the fact that the US national security state could not, and still can't, find half a million Americans to take part in their criminal endeavours in Iraq. This speaks very highly as to the stuff Americans are made of.

We still have heros in every State, every City and every neiborhoood.

Every country has it's hero's but it's shear folly to make national guardsmen ( those who i think do care about their community) go off to fight wars in foreign countries while their own countries and states suffer for a shortage of trained men willing to serve the community. It is well understood that the national guardsmen are missed in their primary jobs when they leave their states given how many serve in vital civil service ( police/firemen, paramedics etc) positions.

I am from a long liniage of military families. I view each man and woman that serve are a hero in their own lives. Lets face it, in todays world, it takes courage simply to join the military, because of the controversy surrounding the war, and our leaders.

The war IS the controversy and coming from a long line of military servicemen should at some point have led you to consider why you so often have to 'defend' the nation from those that never threatened you? Is your sole duty as soldier to to follow the CIC, no matter who he is really serving, or is to serve the best interest of the American public?

Each time you bash the war, and our leaders, do you not realize that the enemy is listening, and that you are feeding them to continue their terrorism.

OBL hated SH more than Bush did so please do not perpetuate the lie that the invasion of Iraq had anything to do with fighting terrorism or terrorist states.

You say "I support the troops, but not the war". Hog wash, if you truely supported our men, you wouldn't critisize our leaders and the war.

The best way to 'support' soldiers is to make sure that they are never put in harms way without express danger to the nation itself. This was never the case and the best way to then support the troops is to bring them home.

That only makes their lives more difficult. Those men and women hear your words too you know. Would that boost your moral?

Not if they are is ignorant of reality as you are but even then no one that is doing any good wishes to be in a war. The majority of Americans that have served in Iraq also wanted to get back home and that's no surprise given their commitments to their families and careers when there were clearly no express threat to those in Iraq.

I say each person that serves this Nation in whatever manner, are Heros.

So why are the US armed forces so small and why are they having such a hard time filling the positions that are dangerous? Is this because there are not enough 'hero's in the US or because it is not heroic to leave your family to go kill and destroy other families in far off places?

I thank Grady for his talent of finding such wonderful stories that point to the positive and good in people that is the majority in this wonderful country of ours.

Your thanking him for the propaganda then?

When I use the pronoun "you" I refer to the citizens collectively, not the member personally.

Right and since i am not American, but not having anything against the notion of being one, it does not apply to me.

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX


I spent hours today pondering a response to your post. I wrote a very long response to you.

I just previewed your profile and had to laugh out loud. I would suggest you update your profile if you want anyone to take you seriously.

It isn't worth the pain it would cause these old arthritic fingers to respond in any depth to you.

You spoke of propaganda. Well it is my opinion that you have swallowed your share of it against Americans. Let me just say that there is a "Silent Majority of Americans that you have not heard from in the bias media you are listening to. The hero's Grady points out are from that majority, and push come to shove, we will all be there to serve with bells on.

I live here......... we are not a nation of mindless cowards, that are "ignorant of reality. I am very proud of this nation and every single citizen living here.

I wonder why you say you have nothing against being an American. Dare I say that as most people that have so much to say about us, you too, would just love to have the opportunity to come over to see what all this hype of freedom, and free speach is really all about.

Originally posted by StellarX


The same integrity, compassion, honor and love of their country that most soldiers display when they conquer foreign nations and subject their citizens to oppression.

Your latter words are subject there citizens to oppression. You might know something about that. How did apartheid turn out?

Have you yet taken the time to say that these people in question did something decent by saving a life against all odds in the middle of a giant indecenty?

Originally posted by PORCUPINEPIE
I spent hours today pondering a response to your post. I wrote a very long response to you.

Thanks for trying?

I just previewed your profile and had to laugh out loud. I would suggest you update your profile if you want anyone to take you seriously.

Since ATS is not a dating club ( speaking for myself that is) i will 'update my profile' when i run out of stupidly ignorant nonsense to respond to. As you can see i have not found time just yet.

It isn't worth the pain it would cause these old arthritic fingers to respond in any depth to you.

The fact that you had to consider 'depth' is probably why it took you hours to respond to my strait forward post. As this might be a first for you i share your pain as i still remember how it feels to dig and find that there really is no credible scientific or moral basis for what you used to believe.

You spoke of propaganda. Well it is my opinion that you have swallowed your share of it against Americans.

Since i keep hearing this accusations from Americans i am pretty sure there must at least be SOME truth to it and i am now only waiting for someone to point out how and why i have these 'anti american' attitude and how they can 'help' to cure me of it. If you think you can help me with this particular 'problem' i will welcome and respond to all questions/accusations/slander/blatant misrepresentations as best as i can.

Let me just say that there is a "Silent Majority of Americans that you have not heard from in the bias media you are listening to. The hero's Grady points out are from that majority, and push come to shove, we will all be there to serve with bells on.

And i have never prescribed to the notion that Americans are fat, lazy, stupid or anything like that and i believe that Americans can and will make the right choices when they become fully informed as to what is being done to the world in their name. What i HAVE expressly wondered about in the past is how much of America , what means and arms, will be left to prosecute such a resistance with.

I live here......... we are not a nation of mindless cowards, that are "ignorant of reality.

Americans are some of the most ignorant people in the western and that is as far as i am concerned a fact. I will never support the idea that it's 'natural' thing or something to do with the American culture as i well understand that it resulted from a deliberate campaign to keep Americans from understanding what forces their country is serving in it's repression of freedom and liberty everywhere.

I am very proud of this nation and every single citizen living here.

Then you are a *SNIP* and one not deserving of much sympathy a world filled with people who are far more deserving of my consideration.

I wonder why you say you have nothing against being an American.

Because i don't and because Americans have fought for and gained very real liberties for themselves? Why must i have something against Americans ( beside possible for the fact that it was a CIA tip that got the ANC leadership locked up for dozens of years) when i question the actions of their government they are largely completely unawares of? Does it make sense to take issue with, or 'hate', those who don't even know that they were indirectly involved in your troubles?

Dare I say that as most people that have so much to say about us, you too, would just love to have the opportunity to come over to see what all this hype of freedom, and free speach is really all about.

As i have said in the past i grew up in a country where the minority lived well on the backs of the majority and i well understand that such arrangements/eventualities are much harder to forgive than those of a public that is largely ignorant of the murderous and completely illegal actions 'their', well not really, government took against the people of the world.

In conclusion i am also baffled by the fact that criticism of US national security state policy , which is something Americans fight when they occasionally become aware of it's excesses, can so easily be twisted to be viewed as a attack on the American citizens which self serving individuals such as yourself can then use as 'reason' to disregard the criticism.

That may be a universal problem of people everywhere but it's not very mature and you probably can, and logically should, find alternative reasons to disregard whatever criticism i make.

Stellar

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[edit on 26/9/07 by masqua]

EDITED and bolded to reflect REDGOLEMS correction:

Originally posted by RedGolem
Your latter words are subject there citizens to oppression. You might know something about that. How did apartheid turn out?

It turned out pretty well for the oppressors as they are for the most part still living well off their ill gotten goods. My official 'excuse' is simple that i only left primary school ( grade 1-7) in 1994 and had thus not had much time to gain a understanding of the problems. I certainly have no express memory of living in horribly twisted country or being raised by blatant and violent racist. If you want to learn from my experience of how governments can protect certain parts of the population from understanding what it's doing to the other parts feel free to ask but please don't abuse a catch phrase in such a purely self interested way.

Have you yet taken the time to say that these people in question did something decent by saving a life against all odds in the middle of a giant indecenty?

If i happened to be taking part in a illegal war, that has so far resulted in the deaths of million odd Iraqi's, and some of the justifiably angry citizens managed to injure me i would clearly want these brave fellows to come to my aid.

Since Afghani citizens are as innocent of OBL's alleged crimes they are no more deserving of being illegally occupied and bombed than Iraqi's. The foreign troops serving in that country is no more deserving of our express sympathy ( thousands of people starved to death today) than those serving in Iraq and we really need to stop congratulating them for receiving a paycheck for taking part in a illegal war.

That is about as much as i am willing to say to you given your tone and general disdain for anyone who happens to look a bit deeper than the bravery of those prosecuting such a horrid cause.

Stellar

[edit on 26-9-2007 by StellarX]

Originally posted by GAOTU789
That was a truly amazing story. The way these men handled themselves in such extreme conditions is moving. Just incredible acts of courage.They all took the chance of losing there own lives to help a fellow human from losing his.

What else are they going to do. They did their jobs, good on them.

Originally posted by StellarX


If i happened to be taking part in a illegal war, that has so far resulted in the deaths of million odd Iraqi's, and some of the justifiably angry citizens managed to injure me i would clearly want these brave fellows to come to my aid.

The story this tread is about did not happen in Iraq, it happened in Afghanistan.

I was always told that there would be one, who would want to rain on everyone's parade... sad, very sad.


This thread isn't about, why we're in the middle of a war or wars, it was simply sharing a story of some fine people who went above and beyond the call of duty to help.



[edit on 26-9-2007 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by elevatedone
I was always told that there would be one, who would want to rain on everyone's parade... sad, very sad.

Who's parade?

maybe a bad analogy... with parade...

This thread ( I think ) was started to share a story of people who went above and beyond.

It didn't have to turn into a discussion of why we're at war, who's right or wrong about the war, who is and isn't a hero, etc.

Anyone discussing anything other than the fact that some people did something amazing to save another's life, is "raining on the parade" so to speak.

reply to post by elevatedone

You are exactly correct.

I want to apologize to the membership for taking this thread off track. It was never my intention. I was warned this could happen, and am frankly shocked that I was a part. I will be more careful of posting my personal patriotic feelings.

I seem to have pushed some buttons here, and so I will push another button, Ignore.

Originally posted by JimmyBlonde
What else are they going to do. They did their jobs, good on them.

Good on them, indeed, but according to the story, Army policy is such that the aircrew who transported the wounded soldier could have refused to transport him and they did it anyway.

That's one of the nuances that makes this story so important. Everyone involved went far beyond the call of duty to save one man's life, whose odds for survival were slim to none from the git-go.

As a result, he has a second chance at life and what's more, he has taken the circumstances of his survival as motivation to achieve more than is expected of him. So far, he's made good on his word.

As I said before, this is a story of honor, courage, commitment, and brotherhood.


[edit on 2007/9/26 by GradyPhilpott]

The Demotion Of General Disdain

Originally posted by StellarX
That is about as much as i am willing to say to you given your tone and general disdain for anyone who happens to look a bit deeper than the bravery of those prosecuting such a horrid cause.

No more trolling or off-topic diatribes in this thread.

If you are unable to understand and address the topic intelligently, then don't post.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


As I said before, this is a story of honor, courage, commitment, and brotherhood.


[edit on 2007/9/26 by GradyPhilpott]

Then I hope they are recognized for their actions by their peers and that their acts aren't in any way cheapened by being milked as propaganda by the media.

Originally posted by StellarX
And these are the type of heroes that the American people need back home where they could be saving civilians who did not sign forms that would put them under foreign guns. A nation citizens who allows such men to get sent overseas where they might be killed for corporate profit will eventually feel the loss in their own daily lives when they wait for ambulances, police, firemen to assist them in their times of need.

Such a waste and for nothing!

Stellar

Way to completely miss the point of this thread, just for the sake of being contrarian. Look at this one event in a microcosmic way(leaving your politics/agendas out of it), and just admire it for what it is.