A few thoughts for those who think engaging Iran militarily would be disastrous for America

reply to post by fweshcawfee


One of the first rules in fighting...

Never underestimate your enemy. We've been fighting this war on terror for 6, count 'em 6 years. WW2 went from 1939-1945. 6 years. Believing that the U.S. could just wipe any threat out without question is ignorance on your part, friend.

Originally posted by warlock3638
I so much agree with you. Even the morons that have posted threads and replys saying its cost us a trillion dollars and etc.

They might be morons but they also happen to be 'right'.

What would've it cost if we had Al Gore as President.

A trillion dollars give or take a few a few hundred million.

Several thousand citizens here in America, and several Billion if not trillion dollars damage these nuts cases could've caused.

What would they have used to kill seven thousands American citizens when they had not killed as much as one American citizen before? Have you found any evidence that Bush and co never managed to?

There was WMD in Iraq.

Only the one's the US gave Iraq and dismantled in the early 1990's with the help of various international agencies!

Just like all the other nuts here they can't see past their Democrat noses. You Liberals want to see America fall, you want us to be over taken.

This is hardly a democrat/conservative thing and if you still think about it in those terms your nose must be of quite imposing scale! I am not sure how many of those who wish to destroy America are in fact liberal but Bush and the gang are quite actively doing so and certainly not liberal!

Well if we were you and I wouldn't be able to talk about it here or on the street. Think dummies. America could destroy Iraq if we wanted.

I think the 2-3 million Iraqi's that's died as result of Americn actions since 1990 shows just how good the US national security people are at destroying Iraq and , more specifically, Iraqi's.

We could destroy the Taliban.

Sure 'you' could so why aren't 'you' and more importantly why did 'you' fund them into existence in the first place?

We could destroy Iran easily. But economics in the world would be very hard on us.

Sure 'you' could but how is that going to defend the US against a Iranian threat that simply does not exist?

We don't want to kill good people that want to better their lives. We want to keep the terroists over there and fight them there. Wake up!!

WHAT TERRORIST!

You that talk about us being defeated are uninformed fools. Even those in the Military that think this way are uninformed cooks.

Because those in the know don't really know! Zaphod seems to almost always be on the other side of a argument with me but his right when he claims that logic is dead.

Thank god we went to Iraq and thank god for Our Military.

Why would you thank god for the deaths of so many tens of thousands of Americans to say nothing of the millions of Iraqi's? Do you really believe that Dubya did this on God's command as he so likes claiming?

God Bless America. People like HILLARY and OBAMA need to be brought up on Treason. And so should you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt god has ever blessed the US as American citizens had to fight tooth and nail for EVERY right they ever gained in that place. I am not very familiar with Obama's record but i am pretty sure that Hillary will join Dubya in whichever hell is heading for.

Originally posted by warlock3638
To make a statement about the WW2 comments. Germany could've won the war easily if they had taken the Crimea and the Middle east.

Given that they could reliable gain victories against France and the low countries and actually succeed to take Moscow they might have had sufficient forces free to stage such a assault somewhere in late 42. Britain did still have capable forces in the ME so it wont have been easy and the US might have been forced to become involved far earlier and more seriously.

If Hilter, which thank god he didn't, had listened to Rommel he would've beat Russia without a major conflict.

The Germans caught the Russians with their pants far down and even without managing to take Moscow i think they did as good as could be expected against such a powerful armed force. If the Germans attacked a year, or even six months, earlier or later things would in my opinion have gone very differently.

Their are several books that spell it out. America could've helped prolong the war but they could not have stopped them by their selves.

Germany were not going to be able to stage a invasion against Britain any time soon with or without a pacified Russia and i think we would just have had a cold war of a different kind.

Britton would not have carried on without the Suez Canal.

With Canada, India and Australia still there they could probably have gone on with or without the Suez given American financial support...

They would not have stood a chance.

What were the Germans going to do after their brief invasion window passed in July and August 1940?

Russia almost signed a treaty with Hilter anyway, even after they were attacked and pushed back.

They almost did in 1943 just before the summer campaign season as they were well bloodied and wanted to see where the Germans stood. As proved evident later they did in fact have a good grip of the situation but were always playing for the time that were always going to benefit them more.

I am still not sure how serious those negotiations were and if either part at the table really had the authority to make a deal to postpone the fighting for very long or at all.

Its called self preservation.

The Germans were having the worse of it for sure but they were not entirely down and out hence the fact that there were talks at all. Evidently both sides felt they could still gain the superiority that both were seriously bleeding for and this was proved accurate by just how close run a thing that summer season turned out to be.

Stellar

reply to post by fweshcawfee


I SAY "GIVE WAR A CHANCE!". THE WORLD IS FULL OF PANSY-ASS KISSERS! THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH HAVING LAWYERS RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT. WE CAN TAKE IRAN OUT BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE DONE SOONER OR LATER. THEY'VE ALREADY SAID THEY'RE DETERMINED TO DESTROY ISRAEL AND ERASE IT FROM THE MAP. DOESN'T ANYONE EVER LOOK BACK TO WHAT THEY DID TO OUR PEOPLE IN THE EMBASSY BACK IN '79-'81??? THEY WERE AND ARE SAVAGES AND DO NOT NEED A NUCLEAR REACTOR! IT WOULD BE LIKE GIVING A 9-YEAR-OLD A 9MM PISTOL. NO THANKS! I'D RATHER SHOOT FIRST THAN ENGAGE IN ANYMORE USELESS NEGOTIATIONS AND/OR SANCTIONS. WE DON'T NEED THE UN AND IN THE WORDS OF A FAMOUS COMMIE "TO OBTAIN POWER, IS THROUGH THE BARREL OF A GUN.".

Originally posted by SOF2700
reply to post by fweshcawfee

 

I SAY "GIVE WAR A CHANCE!". THE WORLD IS FULL OF PANSY-ASS KISSERS! THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH HAVING LAWYERS RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT. WE CAN TAKE IRAN OUT BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE DONE SOONER OR LATER. THEY'VE ALREADY SAID THEY'RE DETERMINED TO DESTROY ISRAEL AND ERASE IT FROM THE MAP. DOESN'T ANYONE EVER LOOK BACK TO WHAT THEY DID TO OUR PEOPLE IN THE EMBASSY BACK IN '79-'81??? THEY WERE AND ARE SAVAGES AND DO NOT NEED A NUCLEAR REACTOR! IT WOULD BE LIKE GIVING A 9-YEAR-OLD A 9MM PISTOL. NO THANKS! I'D RATHER SHOOT FIRST THAN ENGAGE IN ANYMORE USELESS NEGOTIATIONS AND/OR SANCTIONS. WE DON'T NEED THE UN AND IN THE WORDS OF A FAMOUS COMMIE "TO OBTAIN POWER, IS THROUGH THE BARREL OF A GUN.".

OK. We know, for a fact, you found the A button. Now, go a centimetre to the left, and press down.

Thankyou.

I know caps lock is cruise control for cool, but even with cruise control you still have to steer.

SOF2700 I've met plenty of Iranians and they come across as being more civilized than you.

Mr Hoover, to answer your question. First, my apologies for not remembering the original source. I believe it was an article about all the new types of jet fighters now stationed at various Arab air bases surrounding Israel.
This was quite a while back but if I remember right the idea was that Russia had sent their latest top of the line tactical nuclear tipped missles to Syria. I believe these were not an outright gift to Syria but rather the trucks/missles are operated by Russian staff so we lose the excuse to 'liberate' them.
These were suppose to be really sexy bastages that flew only a few hundred feet above the ground and had an ETA in TelAviv of 3-4 minutes after launch.

Another poster here mentioned that he really didn't think of China as a superpower since it had no real navy. I've checked with my sources at the FBI, the CIA, and the NSA but we have thus far been unable to find any large bodies of water between China and Iran. I am also assuming our differing outlooks as to the liklihood of them asisting Iran is based on your not totally accepting the fact as I do that, "China will not allow Iranian oil to come under US control. "

If you want to do the homework check out China's current social problems and how they include several tens of millions of surplus military aged males.

To do a totally correct assessment add in how much resistance the U.S. will have to pull out or end any confrontation when voters start screaming against it but failure to support it will no longer mean the loss of large pro-Israel political contributions because Israel will no longer exists.

I also hear lots of talk about a Soviet/Sino war but cannot imagine why this would happen. They probably already have the middle east and it's oil fields divided up amonst themselves and are not objecting to our Iraqi invasions as it was a U.S. ally and not a Chinese or Soviet ally. So the USA destroys one of the few puppet friends it had in the ME and tears its own country apart in the process. And it didn't cost them a nickel.

Do you think we will be kissed? I think we definitely rate a kiss as we are definitely going to get f*cked. Wishful thinking and rah rah rah patriotic ranting is not going to save us.

Well it appears that the russian technology worked so well for Syria the other week..........

Originally posted by jabawaki

I also hear lots of talk about a Soviet/Sino war but cannot imagine why this would happen. They probably already have the middle east and it's oil fields divided up amonst themselves and are not objecting to our Iraqi invasions as it was a U.S. ally and not a Chinese or Soviet ally. So the USA destroys one of the few puppet friends it had in the ME and tears its own country apart in the process. And it didn't cost them a nickel.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but it seems like you're suggesting that Iraq was a U.S. ally before we invaded it, and that Russia and China didn't object to that invasion. These are obviously both not true. Could you please clarify what you meant by this?

Hitler thought he would win too.

So Russia did not launch tactical nuclear weapons against Israel and nuke Tel Aviv when they flew across the border and launched an attack against worthless desert property for the sake of political posturing? Yes...and your point? We are macho 'kick your ass if you look at us wrong' people. Do not think if the Russians choose to be more realistic and practical that they are weak. Let's see Israel fly over Damascus again as they did some years ago. Now they are lucky to make it a few miles into the desert to attack sand dunes.
Was Iraq an American ally? You actually did not know this? Are you unaware we were supplying the weapons to help them fight Iran? That the poisonous gas he was charged with using against the Kurds was provided by us? Or even that he consulted the American amb for a heads up from the US before he invaded Kuwait?
Weapon systems exist that can stop the Sunburn missile. When the U.K. went to war with Argentina over the Falklands this third world power possessed only five of these missles. But the U.K. lost it's battleship. The coast of the Persian Gulf is lined with thousands of sandstone caves from which small units can launch these missiles against anything floating out there. Iran does not have five Sunburns, they have several thousand missiles a generation or two superior to what Argentina had.
Day one of an attack on Iran the carriers in the gulf will find hundreds of these missles coming at them all at once. To believe they are not all going down is nothing but wishful thinking.
With no floating air bases in the gulf the troops in Iraq facing a sudden uprising by the locals will find themselves without air support or even a functioning resupply system. They have only so many bullets.
The shoulder mounted rockets that drove the Russians out of the ME will suddenly appear in Iraq in the thousands. Expect all the ground troops in Iraq to be wiped out in only a few weeks. No air support, no attack helicopters, no resupply and tens of thousands of p*ssed off people wanting revenge for the democracy we forced on them at the cost of their civilization and the murder of loved ones.
Our naval forces neutrilized, our ground forces destroyed, The coming war will have to be nuclear and although few seem to agree I very strongly believe that "China will not allow the Iran oil fields to come under American control"
China has no navy...And your point? What large body of water exist between Iran and China? It shares a border with Afghanistan. China's social policies have also left it with a surplus of several million military-aged males.
For the conspiracy NWO people this is the perfect chance for those who rule to eliminate a billion or so 'useless eaters'.
Also why do you all seem to insist that our enemies are fools? Do you really believe they will limit themselves to what this forum discusses? While you talk microprocessors and missile technology they are walking agents over the Mexican border with vials of a super strain of air-borne ebola. Do not limit them to your own imagination's limitaions.
So many think of us as a big bad unbeatable bully. We call the shots. Until we get the baseball bat in the back of the head one night. Time to grow up.

If Russia brought nukes to Syria Israel would take them out in a heartbeat. That is a line that would not be crossed by Russia. Turkey would take them out too if they were there. The U.S. government would go off the deep end to say the least. Russia has subs so they don't need Syrian territory.

Was Iraq an American ally? You actually did not know this? Are you unaware we were supplying the weapons to help them fight Iran? That the poisonous gas he was charged with using against the Kurds was provided by us? Or even that he consulted the American amb for a heads up from the US before he invaded Kuwait?

These events were years ago. WHEN WE INVADED IRAQ, WE WERE NOT THEIR ALLY. Hadn't been for ages. And Russia and China did everything they could, short of sanctions and war, to stop us.

mmmmm - Quite a rant........

I'm speechless - Are we not all human's - Do we not all have compassion - Love for our children - Laugh and cry - Empathise with suffering .....

Talking of war and what the USA can do to the whole world etc etc etc - US against the world illusion ???

There are blind people on all sides - we are all being manipulated - East and West.

Peace

reply to post by SOF2700


You are wrong American is run by a corporate dictatorial elite under the banner of democracy.

Wars are not fightingt right now for freedom and liberties or to liberate the world from evil empires because US will fall under the empire tagging right now.

Wars are fought for geopolitical reasons that will only favor the corporate elite at the expenses of the citizens of this nation and the nations is devastating while engaging

This government we have doesn't care about you me or anybody that gets in the way of their corporate goals.

Have a nice day and start smelling the stench of what our nation system of government has become.

Quite frankly, the U.S. if backed by other nations (which it would be) could annihilate Iran and it's buddies just as easily as they obliterated Iraq's entire former government. If you disagree, you're naive and hardly perceptive of actual reality.

if backed by other nations, is the prime factor here...

A war against iran will not be backed by many nations that have priviously backed the U.S in the illigal war in Iraq.

If once again the U'S starts an illigal invasion/war like in Iraq, I doubt that any nation, member of the U.N, will back them up, due to the impact that followed the Iraq war/invasion.

but if the U.N gives a go....then # hits the fan, no doubt about it.

byt thats just my opinion

reply to post by marg6043


My question here is aren't lawyers the elites you are talking about they represent the large corporations and make the laws..

as far as the stench of the government I hate to say this but if you are that disenchanted find somewhere else to live otherwise I suggest you organize your friends and family and do something about it or else things won't change.


Do you not realize that there are countries like Iraq and Iran China where
posting what you posted will get your hands cut off if not get you killed

I know this post is a bit harsh but so is the world I have enjoyed reading a good many of your posts Marg so I am truly sorry for being harsh but If yu feel so strongly then quit typing and start doing...

Respectfully
GEO



[edit on 11/28/2007 by geocom]

reply to post by geocom


I have to find very amusing when people in their own preconceived type of meaning to patriotism get into the old same old same, move of else.

I have to give to my my friend but i thought that it was already old and death.

But you brought it back I am very amused thank you.

respectfully marg.

It seems to be like dominos

I really do not know which event is more worrying

The actual 9/11 buildings falling or the global media blackout to report and investigate ?

The later is the case but then we have to question who controls the global media ?

They are NOT independant hippy journo's

reply to post by Burginthorn


This is the best post I've read in this thread. I'm a noob, so the following will probably be worded poorly and made fun of by all you guys for being all noobed and you'll pwn me or whatever, but:

The 700+million dollars a day being spent on these occupations and such is the exact reason for war nowadays. War is about interests. Not necessarily the interests of the attacking government, but the interests of the arms manufacturers and the rebuilding contractors and such; The handful of people who pocket this unimaginable wealth. (and of course the government officials whose pockets get lined) This is what greases the gears of foreign policy. What the government passes as motions and bills and laws, and for what reasons they give to attack countries is as much a front to what really is happening as my local Masonic Lodge holding a turkey raffle for Christmastime. (hypothetically, of course) Sure, the US could blast whoever with whatever weapons, and, sure, whoever could retaliate with whatever. It doesn't matter to these people. They profit from it. And the more they profit from it, the longer and more complicated and more tech and drawn out these conflicts become. Making it less likely, IMO, for any country that has the ability to start any sort of total war scenario. And when the American "empire" crumbles, or changes, or stays exactly the same forever, or whatever, these peoples' jobs remain unchanged, they just deal with new clientel.

This was my first post, so sorry if it blew guys. haha They'll get better and more backed up with info and such as time passes.

I think thats the problem in America,people listen to the rah rah let's attack some country because we can,I'm sure these people are the type that never read instructions,going to war with Iran would be devestating to the economy plus all the mayhem involved,I think we should stay the hell out of the middle east,let them run their countrys and in mean time let's fix the problems we have here in america,war on Iran a lose lose situation