What James? Are you too threatening my life? I find the term you used "kill" to be a direct threat upon me.
Non the less, you must stand in line.
I know this is hard, but I will help you all through it with documentation and written statements proving absolutely everything I have stated is
true, and much more that has not been brought forth yet.
Problem Lodge...., page 18
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 07:41 AM by The Axeman
reply to post by Skyfloating
Perhaps not, but there is plenty else that has been indicative. I don't buy the story any longer.
I for one will not be spending any more energy trying to prove one way or the other. I have more productive things to do.
For the record, I'm convinced that the whole thing is shenanigans, and until it can be PROVED otherwise, that's my stance.
Perhaps not, but there is plenty else that has been indicative. I don't buy the story any longer.
I for one will not be spending any more energy trying to prove one way or the other. I have more productive things to do.
For the record, I'm convinced that the whole thing is shenanigans, and until it can be PROVED otherwise, that's my stance.
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 09:32 AM by Rockpuck
reply to post by The Axeman
I concure..
I understand several of us have contacted members of said lodge, apparently from the sounds of it we all contacted different people..
However,
No one has produce any form of evidence, publicly, unless being withheld from the message boards, that any of the activities that HD has said are true.
Likewise..
To be fair.
No evidence has come forth that has also said that HD is lieing.. however given the extreme nature of said claim that originated from HD.. one should expect even the slightest of information the proven true by the OP of this thread. However, it was not, the OP has offered no proof, only whining type ranting on about "monkeys" and specific offenses of the gravest of nature against him, but again, without proof.
So with no substantial proof one way or the other, and with only one members word who has, unlike the majority of the Masons on ATS, been unable to prove himself to be a Master Mason, I honestly cannot say that his story has even the slightest thread of merit to it. Because of the nature of the offenses he is detailing, he has incriminated him self above all others. It is Masonic custom to keep the affairs of any Masonic Lodge private and withheld from the public. It is our right as a private institution to keep our affairs to our selves, to keep internal conflicts within the Masonic jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge where the offenses take place. To openly discuss the offenses that HD has brought forth may be important, and if true, it would surely be a sad day for Masonry and I would expect the swiftest of responses from the Grand Lodge of Washington. However, the offenses of one Masonic lodge under the Grand Lodge of Washington are not the affairs of any other Grand Lodge, and have no business in public view.
Even if what he says IS true, there is NOTHING any Brother here or reading this else where can do for HD's situation. His energy, if he is a brother, is best spent pressuring local lodges and the Grand Lodge. My honest advice to you would be to attend the next Washington Communication, and publicly bring this attention to the every Lodge in Washington. If your story is true, and if you are in fact a Master Mason, and you are an officer like you claimed, speaking at the communication if all else has failed will incite enough to cause change.
Why you thought bringing your nonesense to a public conspiracy forum was the right choice is beyond me. I will assume it was blatant ignorance on your part. Perhaps you think you where in the right, when in fact your not. In fact, its an offense all in its self.
But I don't think your a Master Mason, or a Mason at all, and I doubt you ever had the honor of being an officer in any Masonic Lodge. I think your a liar, and I believe your entire story to be fictitious in nature. I believe you failed at showing your self as a Mason, you don't speak like a Mason, and you do not express any Masonic attributes. This of course is my opinion. But what I believe sold you off as a fraud to my self and many others.. is just the sheer ignorance of bringing such a matter as federal offenses occuring within a Lodge to a public forum, an offense I personally find as worthy for expulsion.
So whether or not your story is true no longer concerns me. There is no proof either way, however, proof that it is not true is not as necessary as proof that it IS true. The burden is on you to provide the evidence to publicaly prosecute our Brothers on this forum, and you failed to do such. So like Axe, I do not care your outcome, and I will not participate in finding out either way whether this story is true or false. I believe your a fraud, and I believe not out of personal spite but instead simply because YOU made me believe this by YOUR own actions.
So, if you are a Master Mason, I advise you to keep it between Masons who can assist you.
If your not, may you rot in the darkest recesses of the most desolate chamber that God keeps stored for liars, users and frauds.
I concure..
I understand several of us have contacted members of said lodge, apparently from the sounds of it we all contacted different people..
However,
No one has produce any form of evidence, publicly, unless being withheld from the message boards, that any of the activities that HD has said are true.
Likewise..
To be fair.
No evidence has come forth that has also said that HD is lieing.. however given the extreme nature of said claim that originated from HD.. one should expect even the slightest of information the proven true by the OP of this thread. However, it was not, the OP has offered no proof, only whining type ranting on about "monkeys" and specific offenses of the gravest of nature against him, but again, without proof.
So with no substantial proof one way or the other, and with only one members word who has, unlike the majority of the Masons on ATS, been unable to prove himself to be a Master Mason, I honestly cannot say that his story has even the slightest thread of merit to it. Because of the nature of the offenses he is detailing, he has incriminated him self above all others. It is Masonic custom to keep the affairs of any Masonic Lodge private and withheld from the public. It is our right as a private institution to keep our affairs to our selves, to keep internal conflicts within the Masonic jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge where the offenses take place. To openly discuss the offenses that HD has brought forth may be important, and if true, it would surely be a sad day for Masonry and I would expect the swiftest of responses from the Grand Lodge of Washington. However, the offenses of one Masonic lodge under the Grand Lodge of Washington are not the affairs of any other Grand Lodge, and have no business in public view.
Even if what he says IS true, there is NOTHING any Brother here or reading this else where can do for HD's situation. His energy, if he is a brother, is best spent pressuring local lodges and the Grand Lodge. My honest advice to you would be to attend the next Washington Communication, and publicly bring this attention to the every Lodge in Washington. If your story is true, and if you are in fact a Master Mason, and you are an officer like you claimed, speaking at the communication if all else has failed will incite enough to cause change.
Why you thought bringing your nonesense to a public conspiracy forum was the right choice is beyond me. I will assume it was blatant ignorance on your part. Perhaps you think you where in the right, when in fact your not. In fact, its an offense all in its self.
But I don't think your a Master Mason, or a Mason at all, and I doubt you ever had the honor of being an officer in any Masonic Lodge. I think your a liar, and I believe your entire story to be fictitious in nature. I believe you failed at showing your self as a Mason, you don't speak like a Mason, and you do not express any Masonic attributes. This of course is my opinion. But what I believe sold you off as a fraud to my self and many others.. is just the sheer ignorance of bringing such a matter as federal offenses occuring within a Lodge to a public forum, an offense I personally find as worthy for expulsion.
So whether or not your story is true no longer concerns me. There is no proof either way, however, proof that it is not true is not as necessary as proof that it IS true. The burden is on you to provide the evidence to publicaly prosecute our Brothers on this forum, and you failed to do such. So like Axe, I do not care your outcome, and I will not participate in finding out either way whether this story is true or false. I believe your a fraud, and I believe not out of personal spite but instead simply because YOU made me believe this by YOUR own actions.
So, if you are a Master Mason, I advise you to keep it between Masons who can assist you.
If your not, may you rot in the darkest recesses of the most desolate chamber that God keeps stored for liars, users and frauds.
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 10:11 AM by mister.old.school
Originally posted by Rockpuck
If your not, may you rot in the darkest recesses of the most desolate chamber that God keeps stored for liars, users and frauds.
Perhaps, kind contributor, you might elucidate as to how we might entrust your content to be of the integrity you imply?
You seek to attack one who is casting dispersions on your organization -- promoting the idea that this person is a liar -- when in fact you have been caught steadfastly advancing mistruths in an effort to further your cause: case in point. You never offered me the benefit of responses to my questions about your false statement.
If you are to continually insist on calling this person a liar, perhaps you may want to put down that stone while you occupy your glass house.
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 12:57 PM by Rockpuck
reply to post by mister.old.school
Meh. Not even worthy of a response.
[edit on 3/31/2008 by Rockpuck]
Meh. Not even worthy of a response.
[edit on 3/31/2008 by Rockpuck]
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 01:30 PM by The Axeman
reply to post by Rockpuck
I'll take it.
mister.old.school,
You use, as your proof that this "office" exists, wikipedia. First mistake.
I can't find anything outside wiki and/or conspiracy theory websites that make mention of the IAO. It's supposed to be a DARPA thing, but DARPA has nothing on it. This is the closest thing I could find on the DARPA site to what you are referring to.
So, about glass houses... perhaps you should inform yourself properly before accusing others of spreading "mis-information," or "dis-information," or even of being "ignorant."
Unless, of course, you can back yourself up with something besides wiki.
[edit on 3/31/08 by The Axeman]
I'll take it.
mister.old.school,
You use, as your proof that this "office" exists, wikipedia. First mistake.
I can't find anything outside wiki and/or conspiracy theory websites that make mention of the IAO. It's supposed to be a DARPA thing, but DARPA has nothing on it. This is the closest thing I could find on the DARPA site to what you are referring to.
www.darpa.mil...
The Total Information Awareness (TIA) program will develop and integrate information technologies into a prototype system to detect, classify, and identify potential foreign terrorists so that we may have a better understanding of their plans, thereby increasing the probability that the U.S. can preempt adverse actions.
The TIA program will integrate technologies developed by DARPA (and elsewhere, as appropriate) into a series of increasingly powerful prototype systems that can be stress-tested in operationally relevant environments using real-time feedback to refine concepts of operation and performance requirements down to the component level. The ultimate goal is to create a counter-terrorism information system that: (i) increases the information coverage by an order-of-magnitude and can be easily scaled; (ii) provides focused warnings within an hour after a triggering event occurs or an evidence threshold is passed; (iii) can automatically cue analysts based on partial pattern matches and has patterns that cover 90 percent of all known previous foreign terrorist attacks; and (iv) supports collaboration, analytical reasoning, and information sharing so that analysts can hypothesize, test, and propose theories and mitigating strategies about possible futures so that decision-makers can effectively evaluate the impact of current or future policies.
So, about glass houses... perhaps you should inform yourself properly before accusing others of spreading "mis-information," or "dis-information," or even of being "ignorant."
Unless, of course, you can back yourself up with something besides wiki.
[edit on 3/31/08 by The Axeman]
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 01:48 PM by mister.old.school
Originally posted by The Axeman
I can't find anything outside wiki and/or conspiracy theory websites that make mention of the IAO.
Perhaps you should extend your research abilities as well as make use of the scroll function on your browser.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 01:58 PM by Rockpuck
reply to post by mister.old.school
Remove your petty greviences from this thread. You are way off topic and have derailed the thread for no apparent reason then spite.
Remove your petty greviences from this thread. You are way off topic and have derailed the thread for no apparent reason then spite.
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 02:04 PM by The Axeman
reply to post by mister.old.school
I am prepared to stand corrected if I am wrong, as I have no axe to grind here... but, I find it strange that the web archive site you link to has only 5 pages linked from darpa.mil for the last 11-12 years, and all 5 are the exact same text/image you linked to...
http: //web. archive. org/web/*/http ://www .darpa. mil/iao
(copy/paste the link, then remove spaces)
Why aren't any other pages from darpa.mil archived? Seems fishy to me. Add that to the conspicuous absence of any mention of it outside of our little discussion here, and it starts not to add up.
So, anything besides wiki and a questionable "archived" page? Any transcripts or other government sites that mention and/or reference the IAO?
I'm still not convinced. Why only those 5 pages?
edit: damned link
[edit on 3/31/08 by The Axeman]
I am prepared to stand corrected if I am wrong, as I have no axe to grind here... but, I find it strange that the web archive site you link to has only 5 pages linked from darpa.mil for the last 11-12 years, and all 5 are the exact same text/image you linked to...
http: //web. archive. org/web/*/http ://www .darpa. mil/iao
(copy/paste the link, then remove spaces)
Why aren't any other pages from darpa.mil archived? Seems fishy to me. Add that to the conspicuous absence of any mention of it outside of our little discussion here, and it starts not to add up.
So, anything besides wiki and a questionable "archived" page? Any transcripts or other government sites that mention and/or reference the IAO?
I'm still not convinced. Why only those 5 pages?
edit: damned link
[edit on 3/31/08 by The Axeman]
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 02:13 PM by Rockpuck
reply to post by The Axeman
Information Processing Technology Office
And
Information Exploitation Office
And a list of all Technical Offices under DARPA
DARPA Technical Offices
There is no such thing as the Information Awareness Program.
None of the listed prgrams sound sinister at all.. hell.. I know people who work in programs like this.
Better yet.
These are all sub organizations to a sub organization of the DOD.
The thing with conspiracy theorist.. is they read the title to something.. and because they lack the brain power to actually read into what some punk tells them they take it as gosple, then, like the game Tellephone, it morphs into something absurd. Ignorance speaking to Ignorance on subjects only leads to further Ignorance.
Maybe I should make a thread on the subject of Human Stupidity. Now THERE is a conspiracy.
Information Processing Technology Office
And
Information Exploitation Office
And a list of all Technical Offices under DARPA
DARPA Technical Offices
There is no such thing as the Information Awareness Program.
None of the listed prgrams sound sinister at all.. hell.. I know people who work in programs like this.
Better yet.
These are all sub organizations to a sub organization of the DOD.
The thing with conspiracy theorist.. is they read the title to something.. and because they lack the brain power to actually read into what some punk tells them they take it as gosple, then, like the game Tellephone, it morphs into something absurd. Ignorance speaking to Ignorance on subjects only leads to further Ignorance.
Maybe I should make a thread on the subject of Human Stupidity. Now THERE is a conspiracy.
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 02:26 PM by The Axeman
reply to post by Rockpuck
Saw those. I'm just trying to get our friend here to disclose his thought process a bit.
The web archive thing in particular, as it has been posited as incontrovertible evidence that it did/does exist. But, no other pages are archived... something smells.
Saw those. I'm just trying to get our friend here to disclose his thought process a bit.
The web archive thing in particular, as it has been posited as incontrovertible evidence that it did/does exist. But, no other pages are archived... something smells.
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 02:34 PM by mister.old.school
Originally posted by The Axeman
I find it strange that the web archive site you link to has only 5 pages linked from darpa.mil for the last 11-12 years, and all 5 are the exact same text/image you linked to...
If you review other sites contained in the archive, you'll see a similar pattern of missing or incomplete crawls/archives for many sites -- the further you go back in time, the more likely data is to be incomplete.
For example:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010107185700/http://www.whitehouse.gov/
http://web.archive.org/web/20020124023227/http://www.nasa.gov/
I'm still not convinced. Why only those 5 pages?
Perhaps now, after you compare archive.org results for other sites of the same period?
Originally posted by Rockpuck
There is no such thing as the Information Awareness Program.
Not now, but the record shows there was such an office, and the image in question was their logo.
The second link of a simple Google search:
www.darpa.mil...
The DARPA Information Awareness Office (IAO) is the focal point for DARPA’s effort to develop and demonstrate information technologies and components, and prototype closed-loop information systems. These information systems will counter asymmetric threats by achieving total information awareness useful for preemption, national-security warning, and national-security decision-making.
POINDEXT.pdf
DARPA’s strategic plan begins with the Agency’s mission
These offices focus on new knowledge and component technologies that might have significant national security applications. The system offices are the Tactical Technology Office, Special Projects Office, Advanced Technology Office, Information Exploitation Office, and Information Awareness Office.
[exit on 31-3-2008 by mister.old.school]
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 02:39 PM by intrepid
reply to post by mister.old.school
Which would be just fine were it the topic, it isn't. Personally I see it as stalking.
Which would be just fine were it the topic, it isn't. Personally I see it as stalking.
reply posted on 31-3-2008 @ 02:44 PM by The Axeman
reply to post by intrepid
The short answer? Nothing.
OK, mister.old.school; As I don't have the time or inclination to enter a debate and/or research fiesta to prove/disprove this, I will concede that at one time this "IAO" probably existed. That's as close as you'll get as I have not personally researched it enough to say 100%.
You're a smart guy; so is Rock. I can see why he would dismiss it as a hoax or whatever, and for you to attack him like you did over this particular side topic of a side topic is... less than admirable. There are certainly other ways to have handled it.
At least we can agree that, today, (and indeed at the time of Rock's original post) there is (was) no "Information Awareness Office" associated with DARPA.
[/derailment]
[edit on 3/31/08 by The Axeman]
The short answer? Nothing.
OK, mister.old.school; As I don't have the time or inclination to enter a debate and/or research fiesta to prove/disprove this, I will concede that at one time this "IAO" probably existed. That's as close as you'll get as I have not personally researched it enough to say 100%.
You're a smart guy; so is Rock. I can see why he would dismiss it as a hoax or whatever, and for you to attack him like you did over this particular side topic of a side topic is... less than admirable. There are certainly other ways to have handled it.
At least we can agree that, today, (and indeed at the time of Rock's original post) there is (was) no "Information Awareness Office" associated with DARPA.
[/derailment]
[edit on 3/31/08 by The Axeman]
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