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Veterans Disarnament Act to bar Vets from owning guns

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posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by augoldminer
 


I am sorry sir, I have reviewed your post and it seems that kind of wild speech could only be caused by some tramatic stress in your past, obviously you had an experiance that has removed your ability to trust and bond with authority, you seem to be a bit angry for no reason, and very confused.

I am diagnosing you as PTSD and taking your gun.




posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by Subcomandante
Looks to me like the US Government are realising that more and more troops are coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan with a very jaded and angry view of the people who sent them there, to get shot at for no reason other than the personal wants of the people in charge.

And groups of battle hardened, highly trained and anti-government soldiers could cause some trouble if they are allowed to arm themselves, don't you think?


dang you are right, we better send them to Iran.
(Sarcasm)


[edit on 23-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by astmonster
When we the people allowed the morons in congress the take guns from "criminals" it was only a matter of time.

When the 2nd amendment was written the US was not devoid of criminals, so why didn't the 2nd amendment say 'except criminals"?

Because they knew from colonial days the "courts" could declare anyone at anytime a criminal.................



Thats is so true!



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777

dang you are right, we better send them to Iran.
(Sarcasm)


Silly rabbit, I was talking from the paranoia soaked viewpoint of the US Government.

I disagree with all of these flagrant laws that have been passed to oppress peoples freedom since the beginning of the War of Terror.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777

Who decides who is mentally ill? Personally I think a person in Blackwater may be mentally ill if he is willing to go to war and kill just for money. We should take all their guns, quick some doctor out their make a blanket diagnosis of all Blackwater people.

Doctors are usually good at that kind of thing and its pretty clear to me that you are not one as you cannot tell the difference between greed and mental illness.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 09:23 AM
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While I am searching for numbers to help me explain my stance on this issue I came across some info that everyone should know.

www.ptsdsupport.net...

This says that most of the military that suffer from PTSD are not the normal active duty folks, but the Guard and Reservists. This makes sense to me but i'm not sure if those who haven't served understand.

Active duty personnel are use to the conditions and the Guard/Reserves aren't because they don't do it day in and day out. This is reflected in studies that were done according to the above link.

During my active duty time I worked with Guard/Reservists in the field, I noticed that they have a higher percentage of personnel that are not in shape, not motivated, and less trained compared to the active duty folks. This is my overall assessment of how they operate from what I have seen and heard from other active duty personnel. While they perform an important function, there is a higher rate of low performance from them. Those who served also know this and anyone who lives the job everyday will do it way better then those who do it one weekend a month. I'm not bashing the Guard/Reservists, but this is how things really are.

I haven't done the math to figure out how many people would lose their right to own a gun, but it looks like it won't be that many. Remember, they have a disorder that can cause them to lose sight of sanity, do you really want them to own a gun?

Stopping a veteran from owning a gun won't add up to the gov't trying to strip away the right to bear arms. I do not want to have anyone with a disorder owning a gun. There are plenty of other people who can defend this country if it ever gets attacked.

Think about the millions of Americans who hunt. Those hunters outnumber the amount of military personnel so why is there a problem with getting guns out of the hands of veterans who have a disorder that can cause harm to the public? As long as veterans aren't being discriminated against there is nothing wrong with doing this.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Originally posted by cavscout

I've rocks in my head.




I never said that.

You need to remove that right away.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by cavscout]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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All I have to say about this is:

Just try. My grand-daddy will give you his gun, alright.

They wont be ableto push this terd out, trust me. Its HUGE, stinky, peanuty, and will cause the veterans to show just where they stand in world politics.

Really, go ahead and try to take my grand-dads gun. I'd love to see whether or not blue-bloods really bleed blue.

-Knight



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Flyer

Originally posted by Redge777

Who decides who is mentally ill? Personally I think a person in Blackwater may be mentally ill if he is willing to go to war and kill just for money. We should take all their guns, quick some doctor out their make a blanket diagnosis of all Blackwater people.

Doctors are usually good at that kind of thing and its pretty clear to me that you are not one as you cannot tell the difference between greed and mental illness.


If I was a doctor I would not have called for one. And my point is the diagnosis do not have to be based on medical conditions, they could just as easily be based on political reasons. Remember the soviets used mental institutions to put political advesaries. And today I heard a news cast calling the Iranian president crazy, it is not a far stretch for some people to call others mentaly unstable if they have an oposing opinion and they want to discredit them.

Imagine if every person processed in a jail got a quick med health check up, a deeply loyal doctor might just give all those loud and unrully protesters the same diagnosis. It is not impossible to imagine.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:40 PM
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Basically the government is saying that you can only have a weapon if you're killing who they say. If you're still alive when it's finished, they don't need you armed after you find out how bad they just f-d you.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Most people do not understand PTSD and what it really is. People Diagnosed with it commonly come forward or said or did something and was encouraged to see a doctor.

If the truth be known PTSD is connected with having a mental disorder and is viewed by many as a weakness and wont come forward. My proof is in my own experiences. Most tramatic events happen in groups of people who are effected with the same experiences. Mine was running gun truck escorts protecting the resupply lines. We all had "something bad" happen at one point or another. We told our stories of near death experiences but with a victorious ending and never talked about how we personally felt and was effected by it. Why? Do you want to be weak or show your weakness to your buds? Will they trust you that you have their back?

Now, heading home. You are war heros to everyone. Your friends, co workers, citizens. You are asked at least 5 times do you need help? Hell no! Your a warrior and you still do not want to show weakness.

So, how many who truly have PTSD came forward? Not many IMO. Such a law is bogus to me there are a lot more that have far worse experiences who has not spoke up.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:17 PM
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The whole second amendment aside, just how would we decide at what point a person's PTSD became a problem?

Contrary to popular belief, most people PTSD don’t go crazy every now and then.

Most cases of PTSD involve recurring nightmares and an inability to stop thinking about bad things.

Even those who have "flashbacks" typically don’t act anything out. I live in the desert and it looks just like Iraq. Every now and then I have rough time of things while driving around and just have to pull over until it really sinks in that I not in Iraq, I am in Nevada. I sit on the side of the road, grit my teeth, wait till my eyes clear up enough to see the road and continue on my journey.

I rode with some Vietnam Vets in Louisiana who would do the same thing every now and then as parts of Louisiana reminded them of Vietnam.

Now I was not diagnosed with PTSD for some good reasons, and because I of that I should have little to fear, right? But what about when they come after ALL vets with mental disabilities?

I am agoraphobic. I have a fear of open spaces and being outdoors. I constantly feel like I am going to blow up if I am not safely indoors. No doubt this stems from PTSD, however PTSD is not treated as long-term by the VA, most soldiers move on to a large extent. My condition is worsening, so my doctor was kind enough to diagnose me with the larger problem.

My agoraphobia, rated by the VA as a combat related disability, does not make me a threat to any person.

Will they come after me next, when all those with PTSD diagnoses are disarmed?

How about all of you out there who agree with this on the grounds that people with PTSD are mentally unstable? Where do we draw the line?

Will someone who was on Prozac for a year in their youth be subject to disarmament?

How about someone who took Wellbutrin to help them quit smoking?

How about every person who has ever been to a shrink?

The line keeps getting drawn closer to your front door, and the farther you are from that line the more likely that there wont be anyone left to stand up for you when they come knocking, because you didn’t stand up for them.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:27 PM
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Even those who have "flashbacks" typically don’t act anything out. I live in the desert and it looks just like Iraq. Every now and then I have rough time of things while driving around and just have to pull over until it really sinks in that I not in Iraq, I am in Nevada. I sit on the side of the road, grit my teeth, wait till my eyes clear up enough to see the road and continue on my journey


Thanks for your service I know you don't here that as much as before. I too love to be inside verses outside for some reason. I use too be a "go out" person but thats not the case anymore. I tried to be me but my wife can see through my faking but I feel I'm getting better over time. I know I have PTSD but still wont seek any help because I think time heals everything.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:29 PM
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I am posting an email response that a friend forwarded to me this morning. It's from Larry Scott of VA Watchdog dot Org. Mr. Scott, a credible veterans advocate, refers to the Larry Pratt missive as misinformation. As always, we need to be scrupulous in checking our news sources. You can email Mr. Scott with any questions at: larrys@vawatchdog.org

.....................


There is NO such bill as the "Veterans Disarmament Act"....it doesn't exist.

The bill this person is referring to is H.R. 2640 which would just continue certain policies...and, actually, protect many veterans.

It would require government agencies and states to provide NCIC with names of persons who have a "court order" denying them the right to buy a firearm, who have been legally declared a "mental defective" or who have been "committed to a mental institution", and those convicted of a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence."

This is all pretty standard stuff and has been going on for years.

This has NOTHING to do with PTSD. In fact, PTSD patients are protected....see (C) below. A medical diagnosis does NOT get a vet on the list. The protections are all listed below from the bill. And, the states would be required to update this info on a quarterly basis.

(1) IN GENERAL- No department or agency of the Federal Government may provide to the Attorney General any record of an adjudication or determination related to the mental health of a person, or any commitment of a person to a mental institution if--

(A) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, has been set aside or expunged, or the person has otherwise been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring;

(B) the person has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to no longer suffer from the mental health condition that was the basis of the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, or has otherwise been found to be rehabilitated through any procedure available under law; or

(C) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without a finding that the person is a danger to himself or to others or that the person lacks the mental capacity to manage his own affairs.

The legislation would actually give veterans, and others, the chance to get off the NCIC list if they were put on it in the past. This is a major step forward.

I am NOT a believer in gun control. I, like many veterans, keep a legal weapon in my home. So, I am disappointed that the person who wrote this article is distorting the facts. We do NOT need misinformation like this making the rounds in the veterans' community.


Larry Scott
Founder & Editor
VA Watchdog dot Org
www.vawatchdog.org



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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Thanks Larry thats great info!

Thanks for serving and your input! Guess this thread is closed or should be.

Keebie



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:47 PM
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[edit on 23-9-2007 by scepticsRus]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Keebie
 


Just so there isn't any confusion Keebie...I'm not larry...I'm OBE1. I received a copy of that Larry Scott email from a Vet friend this morning...just passing it on


Some great input on this thread, both in terms constitutional of law, and on the unfortunate condition known as; PTSD. I don't vote for closure.

Welcome to ATS by the way



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:57 PM
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Thanks OBE1 for the info. My bad the sig was at the bottom I assumed my bad.

Good info and thanks for the welcome comment!



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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There's something HYPROCRITICAL, just like everything the government does... a high percentage of people coming back from Iraq are hired as police officers with GUNS and in a position of POWER. Yeah, don't give guns to patriots at home, but give them to those affected with post traumatic stress disorder and give them guns and power... to oppress us like the iraqis when the times comes. All with end very well.


[edit on 23-9-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 10:01 PM
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Darn it. Never mind, should have read the whole thread first.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by mattifikation]



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