The Greatest lie ever told - The Bible

reply to post by mattifikation

What's kind of gross, to me, is that whether you adhere to science or creationism you still go by the belief that everyone you've ever slept with is a distant relative. Well, hopefully a "distant" one

Thank you for the explanation. I'm still in the creationist camp.


Way back in the beginning there had to be incest but then it wasn't against God's law. To me, this is another point against evolution and shows de-volution.


The blood lines at the beginning were so pure that they could take interbreeding. Over time we have developed more genetic problems.


Realize too that all the races did not come from Adam and Eve. Mankind, or all races were created on the 6th day. Adam was formed on the eighth day.


.........Whirlwind

Why then must we pay for Adam and Eve's sins if we aren't even all descended from them?

This is somewhat off topic and I apologize, but it's not really a question worthy of its own thread. I'm curious why creationists think that there must have been a God in order for the universe to be created and they believe that God has just always been here, but they find it inconcievable that the universe may have just always been here.

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

now with the moses thing that someone had eluded to the erasing of text by the Egyptians this can be very well proven a wall from the same time once had images on it but it was completed scrapped and carved away as if to erase the very story of moses......everything answered pretty thoroughly i just had to put that there

reply to post by mattifikation

Why then must we pay for Adam and Eve's sins if we aren't even all descended from them?

This is somewhat off topic and I apologize, but it's not really a question worthy of its own thread. I'm curious why creationists think that there must have been a God in order for the universe to be created and they believe that God has just always been here, but they find it inconcievable that the universe may have just always been here.

Eve is called the "Mother of all living" because through her would come Christ. All that have eternal life must believe in Him.


So...the sin she and Adam commited (and it wasn't eating an apple) apply to all souls that want eternal life.


Also, how do you know you are or are not desended from them? The 12 tribes split apart and the 10 northern tribes, called the house of Israel, were scattered by God. Many, including me, believe that those tribes migrated through Europe and eventually settled in England and America. They are the Christian nations of today!


So....you could very well be directly descended from them. However, if not, by belief in Christ you are grafted in to that family.


Your other question is interesting and I truly don't have an answer for you. In my human mind, there has to be something for other things to have begun with.....To me, that is God. It is beyond my understanding. When I was a little girl I would ask my mother, "Mom, if God made us...who made God?"



I never got an answer.......Whirlwind

Originally posted by whirlwind

So....you could very well be directly descended from them. However, if not, by belief in Christ you are grafted in to that family.

This statement is very contradictory dont you think?

If we are to believe the bible and take it literally like many hardcore creationists/christians do then we are all descended from adam & eve.

How could we then not be from them? If this were they case the bible would be wrong wouldnt it?

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus

Originally posted by whirlwind

So....you could very well be directly descended from them. However, if not, by belief in Christ you are grafted in to that family.

This statement is very contradictory dont you think?

If we are to believe the bible and take it literally like many hardcore creationists/christians do then we are all descended from adam & eve.

How could we then not be from them? If this were they case the bible would be wrong wouldnt it?

If you were to actually "read" the bible, you will find that the 12 tribes are all decendants of Adam and Eve (we all are)

Adam and Eve had a 3rd son Seth.
Seth leads to Noah.
Noah had 3 sons, Ham, Japhteh, and Shem.
Shem leads to Abram who was renamed by God to Abraham.
Abraham means "father of many nations"
Abraham had Isacc and Ishmel
Isacc had Jacob and Easa
Jacob was renamed by God to "Israel" Hence the 12 sons of Jacob became the 12 tribes of Israel.

Its all recorded for everyone who seaks the truth, even a child can see the truth.

If you were to read the Bible with "faith" and with an "open mind" as to seek a true understanding of what the Bible is trying to tell us, just like you would read and "believe" some of these other books that are written by the sole belief of a "mortal man" then you may find the truth in which you seek.

Seak the truth and you shall recieve.

Peace.

reply to post by Fett Pinkus

This statement is very contradictory dont you think?

If we are to believe the bible and take it literally like many hardcore creationists/christians do then we are all descended from adam & eve.

How could we then not be from them? If this were they case the bible would be wrong wouldnt it?

We should believe the bible. It is true in all respects.


Most read the Genesis narrative and believe that the man created on day six was Adam. It was not, that was mankind, all the races. Adam was formed on day eight. He was the line Christ would come from.


The 12 tribes were from that same geneological line. The term "Jew" can be applied to only one of the 12 tribes - Judah (and also Benjamin and some of Levi)...the other tribes split away from them and were scattered, as explained in a previous post. You may or may not be descended from them. It truly doesn't matter as if you believe in Christ then you are grafted into that family.


So...There is no contradiction. This brings up the question of...well, what about the flood wiping all others out. I'll explain that in my following post.


........Whirlwind

reply to post by Buehlar

If you were to actually "read" the bible, you will find that the 12 tribes are all decendants of Adam and Eve (we all are)

I agree - the 12 tribes are descendants of Adam and Eve, through Noah as you laid out. But...not all are of those tribes.


At Noah's flood, which some believe covered the whole world while others believe just covered his area of the world....everyone must make their own mind up about that, Christians believe there were just 8 survivors.


There were 8 Adamic survivors but there were more, not of that line, on the ark.


Genesis 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.


That "two of everything" wasn't just animal life. They were two of the different races. The word "flesh" as used in that scripture is:


#1320 Flesh - (from it's freshness) by extens. body, person, also by euphem) the pudenda of a man - body, fat, lean, flesh, man -kind, nakedness, self, skin


The flesh Noah was instructed to take on board and keep alive were the different races.....So, we could also come from them.


...........Whirlwind

Make of the Bible what you will but the prophetic truths cannot be denied,

All over the net, all over the planet, and all over this forum people bash Christians in one form or another, which is fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

YET they still hold fast to such things as the NWO, and catastrophism, and the end of days, teachings that come straight out of the Bible.

It says in the last days there will be a great falling away from the truth

“For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. They will reject the truth and chase after myths.”

Mystery Greek Musterion and it means a hidden thing not obvious to the understanding, a hidden agenda or purpose.

Iniquity Greek is Anomia, the condition of being without the law, having contempt for the law and in violation of the law.

The spirit of anti Christ.

Yes the church has many sins, Christ had no church.

I believe if one wants to believe, the spirit of the anti Christ must have been in the church since the ascension of Christ.

Because of this spirit it has caused the great falling away.

It just seems to me that perhaps, maybe just perhaps, the ancient seers and prophets had seen into the future, but you say it has been this way since the beginning, I believe it is worse today on this planet then it has every been all the plagues and vials of the wrath of god seem to be being poured. You ask how can a kind and loving god do such a thing?

I don't know. That depends on who is god, and who are his angels?


[edit on 063030p://bSunday2007 by Stormdancer777]

I am not at all impressed that the writers of the Bible "prophesized" that people would one day begin to not believe it. All they would have needed to do to figure that out is look at what happened to every religion before them; as demonstratable fact proved those old religions wrong, the religions vanished into obscurity and became myth.

And prophecising war in the Middle East or the persecution of the Jews is about as impressive as letting go of a rock and predicting that it will hit the ground. Has there ever not been war there? Have the Jews ever gone through a period in time when some entire society did not view them as their slaves or scapegoats?

Biblical prophesy is no clearer than that of Nostradamus. Had he lived during the creation of the Bible he likely would have been one of its writers, considering his talent for blabbering on about obscure future events that some event in time is almost gauranteed to resemble.

[edit on 4-11-2007 by mattifikation]

prophecies are only a possibility,

But when you see the fulfillment of prophecies, then you will know.

The Bible says to test the prophets.

But there is s solution.

[edit on 093030p://bMonday2007 by Stormdancer777]

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.


Overpopulation,
natural disasters,
Famine,
pestilence,
new strains of flu,
global warming,
war,
terrorism,
rising sea levels,
glassier melting,
deforestation,
pollution,
the ability for mankind to destroy himself with nuclear weapons,
The ability of mankind to destroy himself with chemical weapons,

Perhaps none of this is new, but on a global scale,is it unprecedented?

Natural disasters have almost wiped out humanity in the past, but when in the history of mankind, did mankind himself cause most of the problems we face today?

The comet might get us first, never know, the great dragon could be a comet.

Number one.

Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Rev 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
Rev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound

9:1 The fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from the sky which had fallen to the earth. The key to the pit of the abyss was given to him.

9:13 The sixth angel sounded. I heard a voice from the horns of the golden altar which is before God,

9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had one trumpet, "Free the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates!"

9:15 The four angels were freed who had been prepared for that hour and day and month and year, so that they might kill one third of mankind.

Lets look at this first scripture, has it come to pass?

Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

How many of our forests are now gone could it be close to a third?

Being burned all over the world.

6,000 sq miles lost a year as valuable trees removed. Selective logging causing 25% greenhouse gas boost


The Amazonian rainforest is being destroyed at double the rate of all previous estimates, according to research published today in the journal Science. The destruction is leaving the forest more prone to fires and allowing more carbon dioxide to be released into the atmosphere, according to scientists.

A new analysis of satellite images of the Brazilian part of the Amazon basin, which forms part of the largest contiguous rainforest on Earth, shows that on average 15,500 sq km (6,000 square miles) of forest is being cut down by selective logging each year. This is besides a similar amount clear-cut annually for cattle grazing or farming.

Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.


States urged to prepare for victims of climate change. Natural disasters displace more people than wars


Rising sea levels, desertification and shrinking freshwater supplies will create up to 50 million environmental refugees by the end of the decade, experts warn today. Janos Bogardi, director of the Institute for Environment and Human Security at the United Nations University in Bonn, said creeping environmental deterioration already displaced up to 10 million people a year, and the situation would get worse.

Rev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.


The oceans are dying
03-05-04 The preliminary report of the US Commission on Ocean Policy is a sobering read -- or perhaps we should say another sobering read. It is the second major report in the past year to detail the dire state of America's coastal waters.
Last summer, the Pew Oceans Commission starkly warned that the oceans as we know them will not survive without dramatic policy changes making a commitment to preserve oceanic biodiversity. The more recent report, required by Congress in 2000, strongly reinforces the main themes of the earlier one.

www.gasandoil.com...

9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had one trumpet, "Free the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates!"

Reflooding bodes well for Iraqi marshes
UN-funded scheme could restore the Marsh Arabs' homelands.
by Michael Hopkin
[email protected]


Iraq's marshlands, ravaged during Saddam Hussein's regime, show signs of bouncing back, say scientists who have surveyed the region's ecosystems. They are hopeful that some 30% of the former marshland, which was reduced to desert during the 1980s and 1990s, can be restored.

The marshlands, thought by some to be the scene of the biblical Garden of Eden, once covered some 15,000 square kilometres. But they were drained by the Iraqi government, partly to punish local Marsh Arab communities for political uprisings.

At the time of Saddam's overthrow in 2003, roughly 10% of the original marshes remained, says Curtis Richardson of Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, who carried out the recent survey along with US and Iraqi colleagues. The significance of the destruction has been likened to that of deforestation in the Amazon basin.
www.bioedonline.org...

www.laputanlogic.com...


www.mideastnews.com...

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings


Then drainage canals were built. The canals cut off water from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, the lifeblood of the wetlands. The wetlands began to dry and die. Today they're a shocking 90 percent smaller, slashed to less than 600 square miles, less than the size of Rhode Island. The animals that live there have been devastated. So have the Ma'dan, who saw their land and homes destroyed. (Imagine how they felt.) Many fled. Only about 20,000 Ma'dan still live there.

Now, with the war in Iraq over, scientists hope to stop the loss. They're planning ways to restore the marshes.

The region is known as the Fertile Crescent. It's thought to be the site of the Biblical Garden of Eden.

Beginning to be restored, and we will go back to the garden

Arctic Vault to Store Seeds in Case of Disaster
By Lisa Pickoff-White
June 23 - More than 100 countries are chipping in to build a vault to store the seeds from thousands of crop varieties around the world in order to safeguard crop diversity in the event of catastrophe. The vault is being built into a frozen mountainside in Norway where the seeds will be packaged in foil and stored at sub-zero temperatures.
www.nationalacademies.org...

[edit on 103030p://bMonday2007 by Stormdancer777]

Noah's Ark plan from top Moon man
news.bbc.co.uk...

Speaking exclusively to BBC News at the British Association Festival of Science, Dr Bernard Foing said the ark should be a repository for the DNA of every single species of plant and animal.

The European Space Agency's chief scientist has said there should be a "Noah's Ark" on the Moon, in case life on Earth is wiped out by an asteroid or nuclear holocaust.

Pacific Ocean Grows More Acidic
www.livescience.com...

As carbon dioxide levels in oceans climb, marine life suffers.

Skeletons of pteropods, free-swimming planktonic mollusks, grow at a slowed pace in waters laden with carbon dioxide. These mollusks serve as an important food source for North Pacific salmon, mackerel, herring and cod.

Similar detrimental effects in microscopic algae and animals could impact marine food webs and significantly change the biodiversity and productivity of the ocean, said team member Victoria Fabry of California State University, San Marcos.

"As humans continue along the path of unintended carbon dioxide sequestration in the surface oceans, the impacts of marine ecosystems will be direct and profound," Fabry said.

first angel prepares to sound trumpet
Revelation 8:7
1/3 trees and grass burnt
deforestation

second angel prepares to sound trumpet
Revelation 8:8
1/3 sea becomes blood
ocean pollution

third angel prepares to sound trumpet
Revelation 8:10
1/3 rivers and waters
river pollution

fourth angel prepares to sound trumpet
Revelation 8:12
1/3 sun, moon, stars darkened
air pollution

Wormwood (Artemisia absinthium) is frequently mentioned in Scripture, always for its bitterness. According to legend, wormwood grew up in the trail left by the serpent’s tail as it slithered out of the Garden of Eden

serpent/dragon/comet.

Herbs of the Bible
www.herbsociety-stu.org...


Absinthe
Catholic Encyclopedia

(Hebrew la'anah.)

Wormwood, known for its repulsive bitterness (Jeremiah 9:15; 23:15; Deuteronomy 29:18; Lamentations 3:19; Proverbs 5:4). Figuratively it stands for a curse or calamity (Lam., iii, 15), or also for injustice (Amos, V, 7; vi, 13). In Apoc., viii, 11, the Greek equivalent ho apsinthos is given as a proper name to the star which fell into the waters and made them bitter. The Vulgate renders the Hebrew expression by absinithium, except in Deut., xxix, 18, where it translates it amaritudo. It seems that the biblical absinthe is identical with the Artemisia monosperma (Delile), or the Artemisia herba-alba (ASSO); or, again, the Artemisia juidaica Linné. (See PLANTS IN BIBLE.)

Shakespeare says: "There's not the smallest orb which thou beholdest, but in his motion like an angel sings. Such harmony is in immortal souls; but whilst this muddy vesture of decay doth grossly close it in, we cannot hear it.". The psalmist has heard it; he knows what the stars are sounding: the glory of creation and its Divine Ground.

Rilke, says: "For Beauty's nothing but beginning of Terror we're still just able to bear, and why we adore it so is because it serenely disdains to destroy us. Each single angel is terrible. The glory of nature is not shallow beauty."

"Even the creation waits with eager longing for the sons of God to be revealed. For creation was not rendered futile by its own choice, but by the will of Him Who thus made it subject, the hope being that creation as well as man would one day be freed from its thraldom to decay and gain the glorious freedom of God's children. To this day, we know, the entire creation sighs and throbs with pain."

"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth, because the breath of the Lord bloweth upon it",

"Why are these beings created if they exist only to be swallowed by others?"

The tragedy of nature is bound to the tragedy of man, as the salvation of nature is dependent on the salvation of man.

the Bible describes the salvation of man and nature from the bondage of corruption



[edit on 103030p://bMonday2007 by Stormdancer777]

Right. I've read the book. Thanks for all that, now go re-read what I said in my last post about prophecies "coming true."

While the Bible is the oldest "Book" that is still in circulation, alot of the stories, ideas and concepts of the bible come from even more ancient societies. Names the Babalonians, and the Sumerians. I don't feel the bible is a lie, but at the same time, I think that there is ALOT more truth to be found and learned. Is it the Word of God? Could be. Are there more Words of God? Absolutely, why would "God" put everything in just one book.

Cheers,

Camain

Just a thought, I don't think even the non-believers realise how much Biblical prophecy still influences our thinkng from global warming hype, to the NWO.

You believe in the NWO, then you are believing in Biblical concepts of one form or another.

If you believe in UFO's and aliens you are still believing in an evolved angel of sorts.

Activists are just pseudo-messiahs, perhaps we all have a messiah complex, to one extent or another.

We can't have full knowledge all at once. We must start by believing; then afterwards we may be led on to master the evidence for ourselves. Saint Thomas Aquinas

Originally posted by camain
While the Bible is the oldest "Book" that is still in circulation, alot of the stories, ideas and concepts of the bible come from even more ancient societies. Names the Babalonians, and the Sumerians. I don't feel the bible is a lie, but at the same time, I think that there is ALOT more truth to be found and learned. Is it the Word of God? Could be. Are there more Words of God? Absolutely, why would "God" put everything in just one book.

Cheers,

Camain

I agree with you, I have read the ancient texts.

Even Buddhism and Hinduism speak of the last days, it is common sense, it is a given.

It is the last day for someone somewhere, every millisecond of ever day.

Many people just want to know they are going to have a hereafter, many people don't care.

The starter of this thread is a messiah of sorts, the fact is he/she thinks they are saving people from what they believe is a lie.

But we should be careful that we don't create more hatred, common ground and tolerance should be our goal.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, there is wisdom and knowledge in the Bible, there is murder, hatred, war, love and compassion, and catastrophies, it is our story.

There is also quite a bit of historic facts.

There are profound spiritual truths too.

If you want to take a balanced approach try reading this,

Living Buddha, Living Christ
by Thich Nhat Hanh
www.amazon.com...

Christians and Buddhists Meet
Good Heart by the Dalai Lama
www.earthportals.com...

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

god created adam and eve the first two people on earth they had two sons one kills the other so god marks him on his forehead and sends him out of the garden including his wife god marked his fore head so everybody in all the towns and other places will see the mark and know that he killed his brother and was puished for it
where did his wife the towns and all the other people come from a much better argument

Well, yet another Christian bashing thread. You know... this is getting really intense. So I guess I should respond to is as a Christian, so here goes...

Atheists are on a mission, a kind of web-war with the Christians, so they ask silly questions to get you to doubt the Bible and God. Same old story. You could dance circles around them nine ways to Tuesday and they still would not be impressed. They just don't believe in either. Thing is, if you know your Bible your not impressed with their efforts either. So I guess I would just say, the Bible is the truth, but atheism is the real lie.

reply to post by JBA2848


Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters, about every other year if you judge by our standards of having children and most if not all were twins. So lets see.. hmmm... that's six children every ten yeras times 900 or so years, not to mention the children having children and so on. I'd say there would be enough for quite a few cities. Cain and Able were the first two sons of Adam and Eve not the only ones.