The Greatest lie ever told - The Bible

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Clearskies

 

From the posts I have read by you, I would recommend for you to shift your heart and attention away from darkness and give in to lucifer, the lightbearer who rules not with rage and jealousy but with love and light.

Doesn't one have to believe in Lucifer to worship em?

reply to post by gravytrain

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” - Buddha

"O Father, Thine unlimited and all-healing power is in me. Manifest Thy light through the darkness of my ignorance." - Metaphysical Meditations, Paramahansa Yogananda

"Often, correct knowledge can be arrived at only after many repetitions of the process leading from matter to consciousness and then back to matter..." Mao Tse-Tung

"Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the days and the nights. But your ears thirst for the sound of your heart's knowledge." Kahlil Gibran

"Who can put his faith in weakness and feel safe? Yet who can put his faith in strength and feel weak?" A Course In Miracles

Originally posted by PedroTheAlien
reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

 

I was wondering, since Squirrel doesn't seem to have any sources to back up his claims where his/her information comes from. Also, I am curious as to Squirrel's education level due to the numerous spelling and grammatical errors throughout.

thanks!

The only source i have is opinion (and information collated via many sources on the net plus a smattering of personal experience.) This i am entitled to.

My level of education is irrelavant, even if i dropped out of school at the age of 10 (which i did not) does this make my opinions and points of view less valid than a person with a degree in everything? the numerous spelling mistakes and grammatical errors? i think you should go find the english literature forum, your avid detective skills would be more welcome there. i am in the U.K so some versions of words may be spelt differently from the U.S version.

however this is totally off topic but ty for your constructive and relevant post regarding the overall topic.

reply to post by Havalon


Yea but that was like 300- 400 AD. By then the Romans already controlled most of Europe. It was their people. If they forced a religion down their people's throats, it's their problem, not the people's. And seeing as no one dare go against the Emperor , that just be the way it be. By then, Romans tried invading land, but they did didly squat.

Religion is a business. If Christians were smart enough to adapt to other cultures to get more followers, tough, that be the way the world go 'round. Smartest get the prize.

It wasn't until the Romans corrupted an otherwise good faith that things got messy. Government controlled religion only leads to more problems.

Originally posted by RedDragon

Right, an intelligent designer, instead of just creating us, created us through the complex and unefficient method of evolution :rolleyes: Instead of just making us in a lab in about 5 minutes, they decided to use a piss-poor method that only required them to wait a few billion years Face it, we're just carbon-based machines constructed out of random chemical reactions. When we die, we die the same way your cell phone does if you cut a wire. Free choice doesn't exist and there's nothing special about any of us. You're just as meaningful as a spec of dust in Alpha Centauri.

[edit on 9/23/07 by RedDragon]

ultimately this is just a theory and a leap of "faith"- you clearly can't prove what happens after death any more than the religious people you berate.

As for your last comment, this itself as a nonsense- the simple fact that we are the only beings known to have the capacity to ponder theses issues is staggering in itself, there may be other such beings in the universe, but we simply don't know- all we know is that we are the only DEFINITE such beings around, and that is a damn sight more amazing and meaningful than a "spec of dust in Alpha Centauri"

[quote
There is no proof that the tooth fairy exists, therefore there is no tooth fairy. How is that arrogant or ignorant?


the tooth fairy is KNOWN to be made up by adults for the benefit of small children, who quickly give up beleiving in it around the time they stop believing in santa claus- religious believers come in all ages.

That fact alone makes a nonsense of the analogy.

You can say "well Religion is made up by man"- who knows, there might be a true religion out there, but isnt on the same KNOWN and ACCEPTED level as the tooth fairy and santa stories for kids

[edit on 26-9-2007 by blueorder]

Originally posted by blueorder
the tooth fairy is KNOWN to be made up by adults for the benefit of small children, who quickly give up beleiving in it around the time of santa claus- religious believers come in all ages.

That fact alone makes a nonsense of the analogy.

You can say "well Religion is made up by man"- who knows, there might be a true religion out there, but isnt on the same KNOWN and ACCEPTED level as the tooth fairy and santa stories for kids

If you are comfortable with this logic as the basis of your belief in the Bible's authenticity, fine. I still require more evidence than the mere fact that a lot of people simply "know and accept" it.

Your rationale would give the same weight to the Bible, Q'uran, Bhagavad-Gita, Book of Mormon, Egyptian Book of the Dead, Talmud, or any number of religious texts out there with followers who "know and accept" them. Or is your acceptance of these books based upon the number of followers? Either way you must be a very religious person.

Originally posted by blueorder

the tooth fairy is KNOWN to be made up by adults for the benefit of small children, who quickly give up beleiving in it around the time they stop believing in santa claus- religious believers come in all ages.

That fact alone makes a nonsense of the analogy.

[edit on 26-9-2007 by blueorder]

The Bible is KNOWN to be written by men for other men/women, these men and women then tell there small children that it is the word of God and start recruiting them at an early age.

Many, Many of these children then grow up and with the ability to think for themselves and stop believing in it.

i think the analogy is quite apt.

Here are a couple of things to think about. People don’t believe in God because they aren’t convinced if He’s real or not and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m guessing no matter what evidence is provided to you it won’t help you in your disbelief in God.

Can you see fm radio waves, am, tv, cb? No, so does that mean they don’t exist? No, it doesn’t, you just need the correct receiver to tune into the certain signals. God resides in a different realm than we do just like the radio waves reside in a different realm than we do. If you want to hear an fm broadcast you need an fm receiver and if you want to pick up a God broadcast you need a receiver. Where do you go to get this receiver? God gives it to you when you accept the message of the gospel and the receiver is the Holy Spirit. Who knows you, the real you, the hidden things about you and all your secrets? Of course it’s only you or your spirit that know who you really are and that is why God gives us His Holy Spirit so that we may tune into His broadcast to us.

Until you have the Holy Spirit in you to reveal to you the truth in Gods word you will never understand the bible and will assume there are contradictions because at first glance it may seem that way. God works through faith if your faith is in science then you’re just not going to be able to wrap your mind around His word. It’s your choice no one can force faith on you and I understand the skepticism of religion when you see what so called messengers from God say, especially when their pointing fingers and doing the same thing or worse.



x0846

Originally posted by x0846
Until you have the Holy Spirit in you to reveal to you the truth in Gods word you will never understand the bible and will assume there are contradictions because ...

x0846

...there are contradictions there.

At least, in Judaism, they say there are 4 levels of understanding (P.R.D.S. - Pshat, Remez, Drash, Sod) with the base level being that of 'parable' (appropriate wouldnt you think, as Jesus was a Jew who spoke in parables...maybe Christians would do well to ponder this a minute).

So, in essence, you could say that in Judaism, there is the realization that if read on base level - yes there are contradictions (ever wonder where the mishnah came in? Trying to make sence of what they knew was contradiction. - I guess some Christians would say they didnt understand because they 'did not get baptized by the Holy spirit', as you implied in your post...but remember how splintered Christianity is on major issues.

1) Salvation:
a) once saved always saved
b) loose your salvation right after you leave the alter for crossing your eyes wrong
c) predestination (you had no choice and your a clay pot that is either made for heaven or hell.

Now the above is the major, pivotal point of Christianity - the issue of ones salvation -yet it is the least understood among Christians themselves.

2) Holy spirit (I could go on about who gets this and who doesnt, but lets figure out a,b,&c first of #1

Anyway... enough to start the wheels spinning.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 26-9-2007 by dAlen]

Originally posted by befoiled

If you are comfortable with this logic as the basis of your belief in the Bible's authenticity, fine. I still require more evidence than the mere fact that a lot of people simply "know and accept" it.
[/QUOTE]

I never mentioned the authenticity of the bible, I'm not sold either way, the point being, we as parents know the tooth fairy does not exist, because we physically remove the tooth and put some money under a pillow, we have no way of knowing whether the bible (or other religious text) really is the word of the creator. As for any innacuracies or possible contradictions, you couldn't really second guess the thoughts and reasonings of creator who would operate at a much removed level from us on earth.


[QUOTE]
Your rationale would give the same weight to the Bible, Q'uran, Bhagavad-Gita, Book of Mormon, Egyptian Book of the Dead, Talmud, or any number of religious texts out there with followers who "know and accept" them. Or is your acceptance of these books based upon the number of followers? Either way you must be a very religious person.

I never said acceptance, I pointed out that it isn't appropriate to use a tooth fairy analogy

[edit on 26-9-2007 by blueorder]

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel

[QUOTE]
The Bible is KNOWN to be written by men for other men/women, these men and women then tell there small children that it is the word of God and start recruiting them at an early age.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, but you do not know whether it is the inspired word of God, you can say it isn't but you don't really know. You DO know that the tooth fairy does not exist because WE as parents PHYSICALLY place the money under the pillow and remove the tooth.

Hence no adults believe in the tooth fairy but many (I think a majority of the planet's adults) believe in a God in one form or another


[QUOTE]
Many, Many of these children then grow up and with the ability to think for themselves and stop believing in it.

i think the analogy is quite apt.

No children continue believing in the tooth fairy into adulthood- clearly the opposite with religion, in fact, some people dont find religion until adulthood- I have yet to hear of an adulthood tooth fairy conversion

reply to post by dAlen

but remember how splintered Christianity is on major issues.

1) Salvation:
a) once saved always saved
b) loose your salvation right after you leave the alter for crossing your eyes wrong
c) predestination (you had no choice and your a clay pot that is either made for heaven or hell.

It is amazing to see how many different doctrines are based on one Book. The answers are given by God but aren't taught by many.


Once Christ saves, you are always saved. He doesn't make mistakes. However, you can turn your back on that salvation and forsake Him.

Sinning and not repenting for those sins is a bit more than "crossing your eyes wrong".

As far as predestination. God's elect are predestined but those of free will are not. They must make the choice on who they follow, Satan or God. They themself decide where the clay pot goes. God wants all of His children to follow Him but it is up to them.


.........Whirlwind

For a forum supposedly dedicated to 'denying ignorance' there sure is a heck of a lot of it in this topic. Good job on making this topic and showing how many poor saps actually believe this garbage. Seriously, some of you should do a bit of research and understand just how much your precious book has been deliberately altered since the time of your so called messiah. If you knew any history (real history, not fairy tale time bible history), you'd know the catholic church was the ruling power in Europe and beyond for centuries. They did everything in their power to control the masses and the various local governments through the promise of supernatural rewards upon death for absolute obedience to their doctrine.

Oh yeah you might also be interested to know that a bunch of humans wrote the bible not your so called deity. How about we actually deny some ignorance here and use logic and rational thinking to explain our world instead of ancient fairy tales.

Originally posted by whirlwind
reply to post by dAlen

 

but remember how splintered Christianity is on major issues.

1) Salvation:
a) once saved always saved
b) loose your salvation right after you leave the alter for crossing your eyes wrong
c) predestination (you had no choice and your a clay pot that is either made for heaven or hell.

It is amazing to see how many different doctrines are based on one Book. The answers are given by God but aren't taught by many.


Once Christ saves, you are always saved. He doesn't make mistakes. However, you can turn your back on that salvation and forsake Him.

Sinning and not repenting for those sins is a bit more than "crossing your eyes wrong".

As far as predestination. God's elect are predestined but those of free will are not. They must make the choice on who they follow, Satan or God. They themself decide where the clay pot goes. God wants all of His children to follow Him but it is up to them.


.........Whirlwind

Hmmm...point proven?

See, you assume your interpretation of the Bible, or your doctrine is the 'right' one.
But what if your wrong?

See, its not just a few people who disagree with you, there are many.

- Baptist (general) once saved always saved
- pentecostal - loose your salvation
- presbyterian - predestined (to an extent that would boggle your mind perhaps, and in a sense, they win the argument over the above 2...yet only begin to shed a bit of light on the subject.

But I will leave it at this...point was proven with your response, as its the response that any of the above groups would have ("there is only one truth, and I have it")

Not so simple, and obviously its not clear cut or their would not be the divide.

Little lineage for fun: Judaism, Orthodox Christianity, Catholicism, and with Luther came pandoras box (opened that is), everything from Mennonite to Charismatic...the 'church' is fractured so that its not recognizable, and yet each group claims to have "the truth of God"

Yes truth can be found anywhere..."God lets the rain fall on the good and bad"...but extracting it can be something else.

In the end, its your journey, so enjoy...Im not here to convert anyone - there is nothing to 'convert' to.

Peace

dAlen

reply to post by dAlen

Little lineage for fun: Judaism, Orthodox Christianity, Catholicism, and with Luther came pandoras box (opened that is), everything from Mennonite to Charismatic...the 'church' is fractured so that its not recognizable, and yet each group claims to have "the truth of God"

Yes truth can be found anywhere..."God lets the rain fall on the good and bad"...but extracting it can be something else.

For the reason listed I stay away from religion however there is a truth and it is the Word of God. But, as you said........extracting it can be something else.


..............Whirlwind

No children continue believing in the tooth fairy into adulthood- clearly the opposite with religion, in fact, some people dont find religion until adulthood- I have yet to hear of an adulthood tooth fairy conversion

you are miss quoting me the paragraph above pertains to adults and God.

Not that they beleive in the tooth fairy, then figure it out for themselves .. they believe in the Bible/God and then atempt to figure it out for themselves.

Did you know that God created the universe in the dark!!!!!! how amazing is that?? he did it all then said 'let their be light' that means he did it all in the dark!!! wow!!!!

Yes he is powerfull but riddle me this.................

If God is for all time , and he knows what is going to happen (because he is the creator of time, he/she is outside of time). You see if God is linked with time then God must have had a begining and an end (when time ends). thus there must have been a point were God was created with time.. making him not God at all !!

Then why would such a benevolant creator allow all this suffering to happen after knowing before hand that this would be the case???.

and don't give me the free will crap!!!!!... if God knows all he knows whats going to happen so free will is an illusion!!!

its just sick!!!





[edit on 26/9/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

I'm not a practicing Christian, but I went to Catholic schools and took a lot of different religion classes. If I recall correctly, the Bible today is nothing like the origional version. Many books were left out that didn't agree the established views of the church at the time. The book of Jesus being one of them. They are called the Apocripha. If the book was inspired by god, I think that the omission of those books may have sabotaged "God"'s will.
I wonder what was in those books that were omitted? Probably the fact that Jesus didn't want people giving money to their churches. Or that he didn't want to be worshipped himself. Or maybe the whole nature of organised religion is control over the masses.

There is no longer any such thing as Christianity. TRUE Christianity died with Jesus. Today, the world has only people who think they follow the word of Christ. The reality is, they only follow the word of Jesus' disciples because Jesus either did not write his word down to be passed on, or it has been covered up by "the church" like many conspiracy theorists believe. Either way, his personal teachings have been lost to us today and replaced with that of his followers.

From there, they have been translated and mistranslated, analyzed and reanalyzed, censored, ammended, and altered by the founders of various religious groups. Today's religions are no closer to Christianity than modern Wicca is to original paganism.

If Jesus was the son of God and the savior of mankind, the gospels would not exist and the New Testament would be entirely composed of his own writing. Did he not, by the admission of the authors of the New Testament, supposedly preach that only his word was the word of God?

As to the absense of any Gospel of Christ? By the Bible's own admission, it is inerrant. And if this is the case, then it would be possible for any person on Earth to find the original gospels in their entirety, collected in a single volume without any forgeries or additions. This would include the Gospel of Jesus, if there were one. There is not; Jesus' word was not passed on to us.

Today, the Bible is so convoluded we do not even know for certain how many apostles there were. It is theorized that Mary Magdeline was an apostle, as well as other women. Much of the life of Jesus between his birth and the rise of Christianity is lost to us, and filled in with nothing more than speculation.

Perhaps the strongest fact to emphasize my point is that the New Testament does not, at any point, contain a single statement written into it by Jesus himself. This means that the religion we call Christianity today never once presents us with the direct word of Christ. We have only the words of men who lost everything when Jesus died, and likely would have made any claim neccessary to have their influence back.

Christianity was a religion based on following the word of Jesus Christ, who died over 2000 years ago and left behind nothing of his word to be followed by the world's future inhabitants. Those of you claiming you follow his word, do not - you follow the word of his imperfect, human, sinful, nonholy apostles. Christianity does not exist.