Originally posted by whoknow
God did not create religion ego of man did how hard is it to see that and also Any religion founded on the concept that females are not equal to males violates Gods Universal Law this we violate only ourselves or anything else for that matter but Nature or God does not get angry or punish us only "we" humans do. p.s this is my first post

First post hi and welcome to ATS, get ya tinfoil hat out and post away!!

I was going to stay out of this one, but here goes. You really can have proof of God, because you really can knowHim. Jesus said, "If you seek Me, you will find Me." Sorry to give you a quote on that one, but that is what He said, and it is quite true. The reason there seems to be a disparity in the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament is in the way Jesus came and presented Himself to mankind. God has been dealing with the sin factor in mankind throughout history. In the Old Testament, the people had to offer up an unblemished lamb for their sins every year. This sacrafice of a lamb did not erase that individual's sin, it simply rolled their sin forward to the next year. The sacrifice of a lamb, goat, or even our own blood could not erase our (mankind's) sin. If the God of the Old Testament seems harsh and uncompromising, it is because we in our fallen state of imperfectness, do not understand "His Holiness." i.e. perfect purity, perfect love, perfect justice, perfect mercy, etc. The Lord came in the New Testament as a "sacrificial lamb" to erase our sins once and for all, since His purity was the only purity that would blot out our sins completely. The best we can do is to receive the work He did for us, and try to keep His commandments. As for the rest of it, stop wrestling with all of it and let Him guide you. After all, He is alive.

I totally, fully, completely agree with Quantum Squirrel. I have studied the bible, and I used to go to church all the time. But I no longer believe in the bible. I think it is indeed a very epic, and kriptic story that contains alot of enlightened ideas and historical accounts. But the bible was written by men, for men, and although it is very clever and really makes you think. It has historically been used for both good and evil deeds.

I am a practicing buddhist, and I think that the bible is outdated, and needs a serious re-working to make it valid for tommorrows generation. It is by no means perfect, and by no means is the only path to liberation. I believe that the three poisons cause all of our suffering, and I believe that ignorance is the greatest of these poisons. To me it is self-evident. All truths should be self-evident, and i see no proof at all that jesus was the messiah, besides what was written in a book hundreds of years after his death. And it is true that there were other messiah-like figures around at that time period, and many of them were also crucified.

To all the christians: I dont mean to knock your faith, but i just think its very ignorant to base all your faith in one book. I have read the bible, koran, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Tao-Te ching among others, and i think that perhaps all these are guides for living a good life and finding happiness. But no one is greater than another. One enlightened mind is not greater than another enlightened mind. All the paths lead to the same destination. Religion should be modified around scientific discoveries, and one wagon wheel at the bottom of the Red sea doesnt proove squat. I found a car at the bottom of the ocean does that mean there was a road there at one time??

Keep an open inquiring mind, and Dont preach your faith, LIVE your faith.
Peace.

Oh and one more thing.

Taking quotes from the bible to proove the bible is right is like a Schitzophrenic person saying that he is right because the voice in HIS head says he's right.

Originally posted by befoiled

Originally posted by Kenpachi
Anyone who wants proof of good just sign up for the military, when on the battlefield and your arm, leg or whatever gets blown clear off the first thing you're likely to scream is Oh God!?

This constitutes proof?


Perhaps the existence of God is already printed in the back of your mind and is only known at your darkest hour so it could be. Theres alot no one knows about the human mind.

Im not saying I subscribe whole heartedly to the Christian tradition but to say there is no god without proof is arrogant and ignorant.

There is no proof that the tooth fairy exists, therefore there is no tooth fairy. How is that arrogant or ignorant?


Because the Earth and Universe couldnt have happened completely by accident and comparing god to the tooth fairy is just something people do to ruffle feathers. Also there is concrete proof there is no tooth fairy there is none for the disproving of God.

...but that's just my two cents on the God debunkers.

Great. Now what about the topic of this thread...the Bible?

My thoughts are perfectly on topic as the bible and god go hand in hand along with any other holy book. Alot of people seem to pick at the bible. Where's the threads debunking the Koran or other religious books?

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Kenpachi]

Originally posted by Kenpachi
My thoughts are perfectly on topic as the bible and god go hand in hand along with any other holy book. Alot of people seem to pick at the bible. Where's the threads debunking the Koran or other religious books?

So you're saying God can't exist without these so-called holy books? Doesn't say much for your deity.

I don't pick on the Bible. I scrutinize it like I would any other book, albeit perhaps more so given the outrageous claims both contained within and from its fanatical supporters. Supporters, incidentally, who have failed to mount even a token defense on this thread as to its legitimacy.

I can't answer why there isn't an active Q'uran debunking thread right now, but I suspect its defenders would respond as you and others have.

The case against the Bible as the unerring word of God is overwhelming. That is, if we're talking about an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God. I'm rooting for you though.

Originally posted by befoiled

Originally posted by Kenpachi
My thoughts are perfectly on topic as the bible and god go hand in hand along with any other holy book. Alot of people seem to pick at the bible. Where's the threads debunking the Koran or other religious books?

So you're saying God can't exist without these so-called holy books? Doesn't say much for your deity.

I don't pick on the Bible. I scrutinize it like I would any other book, albeit perhaps more so given the outrageous claims both contained within and from its fanatical supporters. Supporters, incidentally, who have failed to mount even a token defense on this thread as to its legitimacy.

I can't answer why there isn't an active Q'uran debunking thread right now, but I suspect its defenders would respond as you and others have.

The case against the Bible as the unerring word of God is overwhelming. That is, if we're talking about an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God. I'm rooting for you though.

Im not saying God cannot exist without holy texts at all. I just find it odd that most people feel the need to attack the Bible, personally I believe in a god to which I cannot nor do I try to understand. I would say most of the bible is probably just compilations of oral traditions before written text.

The bible is a good book with alot of good to say, although I wouldnt take it word for word as truth. Personally I think people should just accept its a good book with plenty of good ideas and like any book it can be manipulated for your own ends. Hence the atrocities commited by the catholic church, although you cant blame a book for distorting God, that was 100% human.

Religion, what's it good for?

The Catholic church, rampant with child molesters who in turn are then protected by the same church and it's administration so that they never face justice and in cases are moved to other places where it's safer for them to offend.

Very 'godly', 'thou shall not offend.....and get caught....'

A little off topic but don't you just love those people who set themselves up in a religious settlement, the first order of the day is to create a rule where you can have as many wives as they like, they can be any age or they go the whole hog and say that the 'leader' can sleep with whoever.

Beats doing mundane things like teaching the kids, do 'good' thing etc....Of course, done in the name of their 'religion'..

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Mclane]

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Mclane]

Originally posted by RedDragon
Anyways, you were wrong about the Jesus part. The Roman historian you mention that talked about Jesus a decade later, the works of his that mention Jesus have been proven to be forgeries. The first mentionings of Jesus aren't until 200 years after his death. There are no mentionings of any of the apostles during their lifetimes either. Censored parts of the Bible even show that Jesus, like Muhammed, was a pedophile.


[edit on 9/23/07 by RedDragon]

Are you stating that The bible can't be changed? It must have been altered 10 times by now. Going to say the same thing about the constitution?

And will ANYONE say ANYTHING on the fact that heretical churches were founded a full 100 years before the Roman one????

52BC was one of them. They were an established Christian religious church, preaching and converting others, long before any Roman ever heard of Jesus.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Gorman91]

Oh yea. Jesus? A pedophile? Where does it say that?

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Gorman91]

THe bible is like a history book, but I'm pretty sure part of it was change to benefit the elite.

When early Christianity expanded to 'Pagan' lands one of the first things they did was to build Churches on the Pagan sites, and then set about 'converting' the 'non-believers'.
(Only after the area had been declared 'safe' by the occupying army!)
Then the 'ten commandments' were thrust in front of the non-believers, telling them that 'These were the words of God'.

The first six commandments were NOT about a moral code!
In fact, according to 'Exodus 20:2-17' (if one paragraphs them) there were 16 commandments! The same as Deuteronomy 5:6-21

It is this part of the book that gets me thinking it was written as a tool to help subjugate the populace, and perhaps give justfication for rounding up witches, Druids etc. (By saying they doing the work of the Lord according to the commandments!)

My two penneth!

THE BIBLE SUCKS!!! I know I'm not going to add any real subtance to this debate, but I must vent a little. I am totally fed up with expressing my views on Christian culture. I am fed up scrutinizing the bible. The bible makes zero sense as far as I'm concerned. I do not need any book to tell me how to live, my conscience and common sense will do so for me.

Argueing a point to a drunk man is wasting time. Religion is like that. Why point out your view if most people won't even acknowledge it...or try to understand it. Most religious people are like that. Religion proves a statisical point to me. If you brain wash children...and continue to do so for the rest of their lives...you will control most of them. Which basically sums of the fact that most people are stupid. Some may say I am disrespecting other members' views & religious beliefs. But...oh well. As far as they are concerned, I'm on my way to hell anyway.

Hell...here I come!

Originally posted by Havalon
When early Christianity expanded to 'Pagan' lands one of the first things they did was to build Churches on the Pagan sites, and then set about 'converting' the 'non-believers'.
(Only after the area had been declared 'safe' by the occupying army!)
Then the 'ten commandments' were thrust in front of the non-believers, telling them that 'These were the words of God'.
\

What army? Early Christians were hated by all. The only army would be the one sent to kill them. After the Romans corrupted it for 1000 years, then that happened.