Man urinates on dying woman, declaring it 'YouTube material'

reply to post by island_race


that last line, I simply don't buy into that argument.

You are better than the fella, the fella did what he did to a dying woman, any response to him would be because of his actions, there isnt an equivalence.

Put it another way, taking that argument to its logical conclusion, why lock up someone who kidnaps and locks up someone else, are you "no better" than the kidnapper- of course you are better, the two are not equivalent

So we know the cause presumeably .. society? lack of moral judgement?

The symptom .. well thats obvious "Turd Boy"

So what is the cure, violence should not be met with violence as Island_race has pointed out . it does drop u to their standard , and his suggestion of national service is i think a very sound suggestion.

Anyone else got any ideas? (be realistic) lol i know what 99% of us would like to do or see dished out but , that just aint going to happen, well not in public anyway ...
Regards

Git

Originally posted by completenuttergit
So we know the cause presumeably .. society? lack of moral judgement?

The symptom .. well thats obvious "Turd Boy"

So what is the cure, violence should not be met with violence as Island_race has pointed out . it does drop u to their standard , and his suggestion of national service is i think a very sound suggestion.

Anyone else got any ideas? (be realistic) lol i know what 99% of us would like to do or see dished out but , that just aint going to happen, well not in public anyway ...
Regards

Git

I don't think it is "dropping to their standard", same ways as I think locking up a kidnapper isn't dropping to his/her standard.

As an absoloute starting point, prison should be austere and sentences should be longer.

The libera/left in britain have long since employed double speak about Britain's prison population when people ask for tougher sentences- they say we lock up more people than any other comparable European nation. That is true, but what they DON'T tell you is that we have the lowest rates of imprisonment for offenders- IE we lock up fewer people convicted of crime! (says a lot about the state of our moral and social decline....)

reply to post by island_race


Did you read any of my earlier posts on this subject? I can hold this opinion that this "person" needs some violence done to him because as a species this reaction has been hardwired into humans. It is part of the grand design of evolution that those who blatantly disregard the norms should invoke the anger of those who form the rest of society. It is Nature's way of keeping down the number of disruptive deviants in sociaty as a whole.

Now to downplay the reaction that Nature has made an intergal part of most humans, is to try and sidestep the teachings of natural selection. This is putting such behavior on "higher ground", when in fact it is loathsome. To claim humane fellings for that which is inhumane in it's very substance, is a lie of the soul to cover weakness or sympathy.

Now I place no personal blame on those who hold out for forgiveness for this punk. I do feel that these people have been brainwashed, if ever there was such a thing, into accepting this so-called method of showing how civilized they are.

They act as if the punishment of evil and filth were as wrong as the acts that led to such consideration, thereby placing such vermin as this on equal footing as a human being. This attitude cannot be further from the truth, for by it's very definition, what this person did was inhumane, or not of human nature.

Now can these types of people be "rehabilitated"? Perhaps. But the question becomes is it worth the effort? We can teach a primate to use sign language to communicate, but is it worth the time and effort to teach every primate in every zoo how to do this? What would all these signing primates contribute to our sociaty? And would these primates then contribute more than this degenerate who finds urinating on the dying the hight of artistic expression?

Sadly, some humans don't really desrve the distinction of being called humans.

And you must have been in a really wussy prison system if those prisoners wouldn't have put a blade into such a worthless little punk. Over here, I'm sure he would have needed protective custody, or at least to have become some big guy's "girl" real quick.

reply to post by blueorder


Yes understand what you are saying there . But when we do lock them up they dont really feel sorry for their actions and 9 times out of 10 come out the prison with more knowledge and more anger as to what society has done to them, not thinking of the reason why they really went inside.

My ol man always said that national service made him the man he was ,god rest his soul, I really do think that this is one way forward and i am a strong advocate of this

Regards
Git

Originally posted by completenuttergit

Yes understand what you are saying there . But when we do lock them up they dont really feel sorry for their actions and 9 times out of 10 come out the prison with more knowledge and more anger as to what society has done to them, not thinking of the reason why they really went inside.

thats why I think prison should be austere, cut out the perks, that would have an immediate effect on crime, and would put many of the "borderline" criminals off.

There will always be a certain element of people who will commit crime regardless of the harshness of penalty, this is the failing of the human condition after all, but we can dramatically cut the numbers committing crime by stiffening sentences

My ol man always said that national service made him the man he was ,god rest his soul, I really do think that this is one way forward and i am a strong advocate of this

Regards
Git

there is probably a lot of truth in your father's comments!

[edit on 25-9-2007 by blueorder]

[edit on 25-9-2007 by blueorder]

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Fixed quote tags (didn't work as they were in caps)

[edit on 25/9/07 by masqua]

reply to post by completenuttergit


I agree that military service can help to straighten out someone. But there must be some basic good material to work with. The old saying about "making a silk purse out of a sow's ear" comes to mind.

Anyone who had so little repect for himself that he would commit such an action, is unlikely to have enough gumption to make it through boot camp.And as an ex-soldier, I would have to doubt his courage, as he chose to do this to a dying person. What, he didn't have the stones to piss on some biker dude?

I just think this wouldn't be a candidate worth wasting time and effort on.

reply to post by NGC2736


I guess there , You ARE right, this 27yr old retard must have no self esteem and bollox so small he would pee on this poor soul...

But , if the state got to him at 18 gave him 2 yrs of disciplin maybe , just maybe he would have had a different outlook on things. A man! not a cowardly turdboy !!!

Everyone is worth a fair crack of the whip i think, then if he chooses to squander that fair chance, well yes then a sows ear does come to mind

Regards

Git

[edit on 25-9-2007 by completenuttergit] Cos i cant spell today aarrgghh

[edit on 25-9-2007 by completenuttergit]

There is a special place in hell for people like this. Some how some way this person will pay for what he did.

“And you must have been in a really wussy prison system”
Unlike what the majority believe, prisons are not like what you see on TV, every 5 mins someone pulls out a shank of some kind, yeah right. If the prison I worked in was wussy then I think that would be because we all done our job properly, don’t get me wrong, I have been involved in numerous bend ups (control and restraint) with prisoners which have left me with slight injuries, but I also saved a few lives while I was there with little or no thanks, it is all part of the job, like spinning cells looking for unauthorised items.

As regards to the national service, obviously this will not fix all the problems highlighted but it is a start in the right direction, I agree that some may not be able to handle boot camp, however, if every school leaver knew that they had to do national service I am sure more would gain from this experience than those who wouldn’t, also, whilst in the services “failing to soldier” is a crime and I am pretty sure they would not want to spend their time in the Glasshouse.

I have always been dead set against National Service but the older I am getting and the more incidents like this I witness / hear about then yes, it may help instill some discipline which is lacking today.

But why is discipline lacking? Is it society / government responsibility to instill the discipline?

Over a period of years we have been witnissing the complete breakdown of the family unit within British society. Going in tandem with this has been a gradual loss of respect and regard for anything or anyone other than the individual. One begets the other.
The family unit was where people learnt values and respect, when this is increasingly non-existent and the only "values" learnt are how to screw as much as possible out of the benefit system and respect is something that is limited to peers.
It is difficult for someone to learn values and respect when all they see is their parent(s) milking society, living life through a bottle of White Lightning or ? and making no attempt to contribute positively to society.

The British Education system offers no discipline at all and pupils are allowed to treat teachers with a complete lack of regard or respect. Teachers are frightened to offer any guidance for fear of official retribution from their superiors.

Additionally, there is absolutely no outlet for the natural aggressive nature of young, adult males.
Competition is discouraged at sports for various nonsensical politically correct reasons, (this is also adversely affecting British sporting achievements but that's for another thread!), and any display of aggression or passion is frowned upon.

I was far from being an angel, and occassionally can still have my moments, but there is a complete breakdown of British society within inner cities and large towns.

This guy will spend no more than 6 months inside Holme House which is a Cat B prison just down the road from where he lives.
He'll have plenty of VO's, all the creature comforts he could wish for and will probably come out knowing more about burgling, robbing etc than he ever knew before and could well be a baghead himself to boot!
Just hope there's some chimp chokers in there who know what he's done and treat him accordingly.

Sorry for the late reply (I should be working), but I have to comment on this

NGC2736
“I can hold this opinion that this "person" needs some violence done to him because as a species this reaction has been hardwired into humans.”
I am not picking arguments but please indulge me for a second regarding vigilante action

A few years back I read about this woman who was harassed and had her property vandalised because through the grapevine a few community members heard this person was a paedophile – so much for vigilante justice – the person was a paediatrician
www.guardian.co.uk...

can you really justify this kind of action, surely, as I have said before it is down to the justice system to pass punishment not a bunch of villagers with pitchforks at the ready, I know this is out of context, but, you start with violence against this “turd” where does it stop?


Point to add, maybe the reason for the indiscipline of todays kids is because the public are too scared to chastise their own children as they may end up in court with charges of assaulting a minor. i received a fair few smacks when i was young and i don't think i turned out too bad

[edit on 25-9-2007 by island_race]

One more point, i would be interested to know what sort of crime rate the youth in the below nations have as they ALL have compulsary national service
Austria, Mexico, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Israel, Malaysia, the Republic of China (Taiwan), Russia, Singapore, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by island_race]

Originally posted by island_race

Point to add, maybe the reason for the indiscipline of todays kids is because the public are too scared to chastise their own children as they may end up in court with charges of assaulting a minor. i received a fair few smacks when i was young and i don't think i turned out too bad

[edit on 25-9-2007 by island_race]

BANG ON !!!

We're too holier than thou politicaly correct these days and its all going "tits up" because of it !

Bet those countries youth crime rates are lower than ours !!!

[edit on 25-9-2007 by completenuttergit]

reply to post by NGC2736



I agree. In saving people from themselves, we've negated (or, at the very least, severely lessened) personal responsibility. However, and to be truthful, no amount of padding in and of itself can lessen personal responsibility -- the person sets it aside themselves, and, in many cases, is allowed to by society's practiced values. (We speak great ideals, but our actions say volumes.)


Isn't it funny that in "civilizing" ourselves, we've forgotten how to be civil?

(wait...did we ever know? maybe we're still figuring it out? )

reply to post by island_race


I agree so very much! It all starts at home. Lack of respect for the spouse, lack of self respect, no viable way to correct a child in the formative years because of the threat of punishment; it all leads straight to these kinds of people later on.

And I am in no way trying to be a hard ass about this. I too had my wilder days, and I had a choice of service in the Army (the 1960s were another hard time to fill recruiting quotas) or a year in the slammer over a fight where someone got hurt enough to go to the hospital. But while I was a rough youth, my raising was such that it was a fair fight, with another full grown man. I would have never even thought of doing something like this guy did.

Maybe we stopped caring when our role models changed from John Wayne to some we have today.

And if I sound harsh in my speculation that the species is going to hell in a handbasket, it's because there is no longer even much "news" on something like this; and it's because this is becoming the norm, instead of the exception.

Now those who feel I am wrong to advocate such extreme punishment for this 27 year old, (one third of the normal lifespan nowdays, so he's not some errant teenager), consider the fact that as his type of behavior becomes more and more commonplace, our social fabric grows weaker and weaker.

There are those that try to say that there is no place for violence in society. But that is just untrue. As long as there are those that use violence towards the weak, then it is the duty of the strong to protect society from these deseased members by the use of violence. Until everyone becomes Amish, punishment, to whatever extreme is warranted by the crime, will be the only way to control those that the state has silently empowered with the myth that there is no consequences for abhorrent actions.

You may call it vigilantee justice, but even in early California, it worked. It may cause wrong to some few, but as a whole, it is the will of the people to find a point of "live and let live". And is it truly any worse than what we have now, where every b**hole wanna-be badass feels safe to do as he will, knowing that there will be no real punishment for whatever their tiny minds can imagine?

Several years ago, there was a woman who drowned her two tiny children by running her car into a lake with them strapped into carseats. She later said she did it because she wanted a boyfriend to love her, and he didn't want kids. She was willing to sacrifice two of her own children just to satisfy the wish for a "good" love life. Do you honestly think it would have been wrong to execute her by tying her into a seat and shoving her car into the lake?

As long as society refuses, because of some misguided concept of "being too civilized", to match the punishment to the crime, then we will go on racing downhill into oblivion. (And this crime against the dignity of a dying fellow human is right up there with the worst.)

Originally posted by pstiffy
How sick does somebody have to be in the head to urinate on somebody dying on the road...not to mention having your two idiot friends filming and cheering it on.

I am really starting to lose faith in our species

[edit on 9/22/2007 by pstiffy]

I honestly believe I have officially lost faith.. and am quite disgusted with our society...

The West deserves its fate, if you ask me.

Everyone is looking for their 15 minutes of fame regardless of the cost to themselves and others. This is beyond sad for me. I'm ashamed.

I've recently found myself hating this new video craze, I've never thought much about it as being a problem or issue until lately when I noticed how egotistical society has become. In addition, it's obvious that attention spans are shortening with this new visual stimulation, gone will be the days of books and actual reading, now a video can do it all in a few concise minutes. I'm afraid I'll continue to ramble and rant, so I'm done.

reply to post by Rockpuck


to a certain degree yes, in terms of the chattering elite this indeed the case- a pathetic moral surrender, both on personal levels and national levels

Ok, I understand what you are saying an eye for an eye and all that, but I personally don’t agree with that form of punishment.

Here in the UK we stopped capital punishment in 1964, If you have a look back over the history of executions you will find that a few of these people eventually had their convictions overturned and given a posthumous pardon – I bet they feel much better now!!
Fair enough you could strap a woman into her car and send it into a river, she admitted doing this to her kids, “turd boy” was filmed peeing on a woman, again do this to him.
I think the real sticky point in this is if a guy gets executed for a crime worthy of this punishment what happens when you find out he was really innocent, do the judges/executioner then get executed because they did this to an innocent man, unfortunately we all make mistakes we are only human.

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe the debate on capital punishment should be on its own thread

Public humiliation ?? or the threat of, would that help ??

Put up some stocks in the town centre and put "turd boy" in them for a week. Then we all can jump on a bus , plane whatever and go take a look at this cretin being pee'd on , dumped on, put up some tv cameras to view him for 24hrs a day , a sort of Big Brother but with a twist if you like..

It is nice for a change to hear all of us getting together on this, well almost. makes a pleasent change !

Regards
Git