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Could there be a way to beat the Taser?

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posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 09:03 AM
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Winter jackets by popular brands such as Rockport and Berghaus have been found to stop tazers. I imagine the design of the jacket, for insulation, also renders the tazer inactive. This was discovered in Scotland, where Neds (See, Chavs or Charvers) who were wearing such apparell would remain unaffected by tazers. So dress like a heedthebaw and you'll be fine




posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by icubitis
Let me start off by saying I'm a cop. I've been on the force for 4 years and love my job. My department is looking into acquiring tasers for all officers. There are some things I just had to post to this topic, after a few weeks of merely browsing ATS.

The tasers my department want to get have an automatic camera attached that records video and audio every single time the taser is used. I doubt this would make anyone feel better about police officers carrying them, but it at least is a level of security over out of control officers.


What's going to be fun is the rate at which the cameras/mic fail to record anything - watch as your compadres tape over them.

The way to solve that will be to have a city ordinance that automatically puts the cop at fault if there is no recording - but the union won't let that stand.

Next, you'll find that you have to have a policy put in place shortly that expressly forbids you guys to shoot men in the genitals and women in the breasts - or shots to the face. And while you think now that this will be uncommon, you'll also find that the next thing will have to be a policy that requires the arresting officers to take people struck in these areas to the hospital for extraction of the darts, and documentation of the violation of policy. Followed shortly by the officers refusing this and just ripping the darts out of the face by the wires.

You can't make this stuff up - if you follow the areas that get Tasers, the policy changes happen like night follows day. You are going to see your friends use them punitively.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by SkipShipman
The way to beat it is to outlaw it. It kills more people than a gunshot would in some instances. Being a menace to public safety and a torture device, the Taser is anti ethical to the general experience of the United States historically.

On the sum of it it is an instrument of class warfare, something like a cattle prod as the elite tell us what they think of us. In their sick expression of dominance they inflict pain with the assumption we are even less intelligent than 11th century serfs eating pottage. Do they think we are cattle?


[edit on 22-9-2007 by SkipShipman]


Kills more people than a gunshot? Where are you getting this statistic from? The menace to public safety is allowing disorderly people to run amok, and then having to resort to batons/firearms to restrain them. There's no class warfare going on. If you behave with class, you're not gonna get tasered.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by BlueRaja
... There's no class warfare going on. If you behave with class, you're not gonna get tasered.


Tell that to the kid who videotaped the cop that was threatening to beat him up, and then plant evidence on him. (St. George parish, I believe it was in?)

MOST cops are corrupt in one way or another, not just a "few bad apples". A direct witness to this is how they view Internal Affairs, and how it is almost unheard of for a cop to report another cop for illegal/unethical actions.



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 10:06 AM
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First of all, a taser does NOT work by sending electricity through you. That is why even if one prong touches you it can still function and disable a person. Wearing a foil body suit is only going to make the taser MORE effective.

The taser works by creating high-frequency AC potential at the prong tips. This creates an electromagnetic field, around the prong and the wires, which fluctuates at a high-rate. The presence of that field near any nerve in the body will cause spontaneous triggering of that nerve and any nerves attached to that one.

That is why tasers DO NOT need contact with the skin to create the convulsive effect. All they need is to be close enough to the skin that the field they create triggers the nerve endings. Big puffy jackets are going to work simply because they can keep the prongs from getting close enough to anything biological to trigger the intended kicking and screaming.

What all this means is that by wearing something which will conduct electricity all you would be doing is helping to spread the field out so that it can trigger the firing of more nerves around your body. Ergo, you would accomplish little more than helping the cops torture you.

The only real 100% solution I could think of would be to have a reactive metallic layer over an insulator. The idea would be to have a some electronics sense the presence of a an electromagnetic field on the surface of the metallic suit. The suit would then create a field with the same amplitude and frequency as the one the taser generates but have the phase of the signal shifted by 180 degrees. The two fields should cancel each other out and stop the effect of the taser. The only real question is whether or not the electronics could respond before the onset of incapacitation.

Jon



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Voxel
First of all, a taser does NOT work by sending electricity through you. That is why even if one prong touches you it can still function and disable a person. Wearing a foil body suit is only going to make the taser MORE effective.


Incorrect - see below.



The taser works by creating high-frequency AC potential at the prong tips. This creates an electromagnetic field, around the prong and the wires, which fluctuates at a high-rate. The presence of that field near any nerve in the body will cause spontaneous triggering of that nerve and any nerves attached to that one.


The Taser fires an initial high voltage discharge through the prongs to establish a conductive ionized path from the prongs to the skin, followed (on later models) by a reduction of current. Yes, current flows through you, and yes, it takes both prongs to complete the circuit. It is not bombarding you with RF.



That is why tasers DO NOT need contact with the skin to create the convulsive effect.


Not at all. The initial spark discharge breaks down the air between the ends of the prongs and your skin. That's why it doesn't have to be in contact.



What all this means is that by wearing something which will conduct electricity all you would be doing is helping to spread the field out so that it can trigger the firing of more nerves around your body. Ergo, you would accomplish little more than helping the cops torture you.


Even if it were primarily RF fields that caused the effect, this would still be incorrect. What happens to an RF wavefront when it encounters a conductive plane? Does it pass through it and "spread the field out", or does it reflect it? Hint - see Maxwell. What do you use to box in the fields from a transmitter inside the case - would it be a metallic shield? Yes, it would. What do you use to shield very sensitive front end amps and converters from the leaks from the LO? Again - a metallic shield. That's because the discontinuity in conductivity causes a reflection. How much you get depends on the characteristics of the shield and the signal you're trying to reflect. The higher frequency, the better it works.

Here is a wmv video showing one company's metallic fabric system.

And here is the pdf manual for the x26 - note:



BASIC X26C ELECTRICAL THEORY

Electricity must be able to flow between the probes or the electrodes.

Electricity generally follows the path of least resistance between the probes.

The greater the spread between the probes on the target, generally the greater the NMI effectiveness.

Electricity will generally not pass to others in contact with the subject unless contact is made directly between or on the probes.

Electricity can arc through clothing.

page 6 of link


Pretty much every point there contradicts your statement. Also here is an overdramatic artists rendition of it arcing through clothing. And here is the spec sheet for it showing that the open probe voltage on firing is 50kV.

Not only that, we bought a pile of them and took them apart seeing if we could use it for part of a gubmint project, but it was too noisy (electrically, that is) for what we wanted to do. Alas, if we had been able to do the design we wanted with a dart system like that I'd be sipping champagne in the Caribbean right now.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 07:58 AM
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Okay, so say for argument sake you were wearing a rubber suit, and tight knit cloth with aluminum threads(Non conductor) and this taser was shot at you but did nothing to you. What would the Police do next?!

Probably rush you and attempt to beat you down and cuff you. So I guess all in all the only true way to beat a Taser is to run like hell!

What do the cops do when they can't catch you and don't know your identification!?



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 08:07 AM
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Well, there's the point, really.

I imagine they'd look at you, then each other, then pull a sidearm and shoot you. They don't often handle little surprises well.

You might try putting your hands on your hips like Superman and laughing in a comic-maniacal way "HA HA HA - I am impervious to your foolish tasers!", sort of go for comic relief.

Or you could shriek, writhe around, then stand up, say ha ha just kidding, pull out the darts and hand them back to the guy.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by BlueRaja
... There's no class warfare going on. If you behave with class, you're not gonna get tasered.




MOST cops are corrupt in one way or another, not just a "few bad apples". A direct witness to this is how they view Internal Affairs, and how it is almost unheard of for a cop to report another cop for illegal/unethical actions.


That's a mighty big generalization don't you think. Try filling in the blank with MOST ________ are/do _________, and see how often that it is an accurate reflection of reality.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
tight knit chainmail over a rubber shirt.... You wouldn't be shocked but it would short out the tazer... Then while stupid cops stand in amazement, beat the sh.. out of them.


exactly what i was thinking. a body-hugging metal net that would provide an easier(less resistance) route for the current.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by icubitis
 


thanks for being human, icubitis.
now, go arrest some bad cops, would ya!?



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by Tom Bedlam
 


I will admit you are right about the taser. I must have been confusing it with another stun weapon. I hope I am not losing my mind. I know I saw a show where they discussed "less lethal weapons" and mentioned that a type of stunner that operates in the fashion I described.

I must have mistaken one for the other. Thanks for correcting me. Now I'm trying to find what it was I heard about.

Jon



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 02:30 PM
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No probs - if I hadn't taken several apart for my nefarious military purposes, I might not have known.

What you saw was most likely another thing I was familiar with from a few years back - PEP. It's a spin-off from PIKL. They create a plasma at the target's surface and excite the plasma to emit RF that's tuned to fire off nociceptors on the surface of the skin.

Sort of a special delivery version of VMADS. Only you can get more out of it than just hotting you up. You can actually paralyze and/or render people unconscious with it. Well, that and kill them, but that's a bad side effect.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by Tom Bedlam]



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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You can always dress like Batman did in Batman Begins when Rachel Dawes tries to taser him when he scares the heck out of her. He didn't feel a thing when it hit him, just stares at Rachel calmly.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 10:25 PM
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If you are tased and you feel that you were not in the wrong, I suggest you build an IED and place it in the drive way of the offending officer. This technique seems to be working in the Middle East.



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by parry noid
I you wore a anti static braclet or something rubber, or something that grounds you could you beat the Taser? Or even, is it possible to build an immunity to electric shock?! Since it seems this is going to be the way of the future is there any way to beat it?

Please throw down some ideas, I want to hear what you all have to say?


Here's a good way to beat a taser.




posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 10:36 PM
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when i was in juvee soem of the people there started a riot they put blankets on under neath our one piece black and whit jail uniforms (i pretended i was the hamburgular from time to time) these blankets were thick thick cotton (and not comfortable) but the tasers didnt touch them or get near them so the cops had to close the door and come back with a paint ball gun with those pepper balls and they shot a beanbag into the room to scare them....i only watched till they got tased then they told us to go back to our cells it was funny when the tasers hit um and nothing happenned though



posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by SkipShipman
 





On the sum of it it is an instrument of class warfare, something like a cattle prod as the elite tell us what they think of us. In their sick expression of dominance they inflict pain with the assumption we are even less intelligent than 11th century serfs eating pottage. Do they think we are cattle?


People arent being pulled over by Bentleys and Maybachs and getting tased while a couple of billionaires laugh at them. So how exactly is it an "instrument of class warfare." It is used by Law Enforcement Officers to subdue people who are resisting. Although I can understand that nobody likes being arrested, the fact is that once you are arrested you are staying arrested. No matter how many wild excuses you can scream at the officer while he tries to get the cuffs on.

To respond now to the OP:

The only way to defeat the taser is to not resist. Pain compliance is taught to every Security and Law Enforcement Officer I know. The taser is just another form of this. Infact it is better because I have personally been involved in many situations where attempts to restrain a resisting person has ended with broken wrists and dislocated shoulders. Let me also say that these stories come from my current position as Operations Manager for a security company here in Melbourne.

CT



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 12:03 AM
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i watched a cop be VERY polite to a woman who was speeding. (on youtube)
and then, he asked her to get out of the car. she wouldn't. he asked her repeatedly. she didn't get out. and then he warned that he would taze her if she didn't get out. she didn't get out.

he tazed her.

justified?



posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by billybob
 






justified?


Absolutely.


What would you have him do? Continue asking politely untill his shift finishes and another officer comes to take over. While I havent seen the particular clip you are talking about, based on the info you gave, he was left with no option other than physically pulling her from the vehicle, which as i pointed out in my post above, can do more harm than good.

And supposed he let the woman have her way and not get out of the car. What about the next time? And the time after that?

I ask again. What would you have him do?

CT



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