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Could there be a way to beat the Taser?

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posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 02:52 PM
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The thing that this thread made me think about is why would you need a taser proof out-fit, unless you truely believed you were going to get tased?
Most people wouldn't expect to be tased unless they knew the were commiting actions that would get the Police involved. Of course there are many reports of unexpected tasings, but I guess what I'm getting at is that you would either have to wear it every single day of your life, or you would have to be aware that you are intending to do something that would likely result in a tasing. just my humble 2 cents...Now to address the OP's question. I'd say the best approach would be to develope a full body suit. Police don't usually tase directly in the face. So it would be best to cover the entire body with the exception of the face. The lighter and more flexible and breathable the better. Some type of space-age super-spandex type of material that protects the individual form electo-shock. I don't think anything like that exists, but if it did it could be worn under the persons regular clothes.

Another thing that comes to mind is the idea of grounding the current some how, like a glove or shoe that when you touch the ground it disperses the electricty away from you, the glove idea would be the coolest because you might be able to touch your attacker and shock them instead.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by cynical572]




posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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Honestly beating a tazer would be a cake walk, you guys are forgetting how it works, you do not need to defeat electrical current only give it a new path. If you put tinfoil on the inside of all your clothing when you get hit, instead of the electricity taking the path of least resistance, your water filled tissue, it would take the least resistance, alluminum foil.

Note this would have the added effects of protecting you from mind control, and making you spark like a dragging muffler if you fell into a microwave.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by scientist
 


And here's why:


Traditional stun technology weapons operate in a 7-14 Watt range and interfere with the communication signals within the nervous system of the target.

These stun systems primarily effect the sensory nervous system. Like static on the communication lines between the brain and the body, stun systems interfere with the human command and control systems.

However, a small percentage of people with a very high tolerance for electrical stimulation can fight through the effect of these 7-14 Watt systems.

EMD WEAPONS: EMD weapons use a more powerful 18 to 26 Watt electrical signal to completely override the central nervous system and directly control the skeletal muscles.


Apparently even civilians can get them, but only in the 15 foot version as opposed to the extra 6 feet that LEO can obtain.

Though I'd like to see these things controlled, if they are being used in place of shooting someone, it's tough. Maybe they should have a civilian review board look at use, everytime one is drawn, like with guns, at least for a period of time until policy can be modified.

But it has to come from the top. Tacit approval, which seems to be rife allows the troops to get away with stuff as long as they don't get caught.

(my opinions only)



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 03:42 PM
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Civilian review boards are nearly useless. The data comes from police reports, unless there is a video, then they are not used.

I still think training away the idea that police can be lazy and let torture do the work for them is the issue. They simply are not meant as cattle prods, they were meant to subdue dangerous subjects.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 04:11 PM
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EDTA chelation -- get the heavy metals out of your system for starters.

Start practising Tai Chi and learn how to ground yourself to the Earth -- I know it sounds crazy, but think of it as training in how to channel energy through you and around you.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by Choronzon
I don't think that would be very smart. Because tasering is supposed to be a last resort option. I hate to see what comes next if the taser didn't work.


Boots to the head.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 02:34 AM
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Like I've posted in BTS, that's all I can say

www.metacafe.com...




posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Pellevoisin

Start practising Tai Chi and learn how to ground yourself to the Earth -- I know it sounds crazy, but think of it as training in how to channel energy through you and around you.

This doesn't sound crazy to me at all. I believe energy fields can be created around a person, I am just not sure if you could ground them through you. Maybe that is why some 2% or so have natural resistance to tasers.

On a side note, I am not into Scientology, but they have this thing I heard about, a person holds two ends of an electric meter, then sends energy across it, the higher the better you are at what every they do.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:01 AM
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The way to beat it is to outlaw it. It kills more people than a gunshot would in some instances. Being a menace to public safety and a torture device, the Taser is anti ethical to the general experience of the United States historically.

On the sum of it it is an instrument of class warfare, something like a cattle prod as the elite tell us what they think of us. In their sick expression of dominance they inflict pain with the assumption we are even less intelligent than 11th century serfs eating pottage. Do they think we are cattle?


[edit on 22-9-2007 by SkipShipman]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:31 AM
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Best way i know wouldn't prevent it, but better than nothing.
You hold on to the cop
. This way you can share the pain and hopefully he gets a heart attack and you don't. Then you RUN!

Edit:
Another method is to carry your own taser. If the cop gives you the dirty, taser him. Then if he takes out his gun, you take out yours. If he brings reinforcements, contact me.


[edit on 22-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


I will give you kind of a similar circumstance; I was picketing in front of EV Free Church in Fullerton, every Sunday almost, including Christmas Eve, for a year. Otherwise known as the Chuck Swindle Church. Protesting their accessory to the rape of a friend of mine, their lying about our singles pastor being fired, and about their shutting down that class of 400, among other things. Calling for a new reformation, for the government to confiscate the church properties under the Rico Act, and to throw the liars out. When I first showed up, the cop they pay to control traffic told me to go down the street to picket. So I called the station, and demanded my Constitutional right to peacefully demonstrate. Guess what? They let me back, no problem. I merely very politely asked them what I needed to do and not do, before I began doing this. Followed it to the letter. But I am under no delusions; this is a world-famous church, and it would be bad press for them to deny me my rights twice. They have to pretend to do the right thing, just like that cult. For now. And if there are no other factors, like money, or orders from perps, the best way to handle it is with charm and tact. They have no motive to mess with you, unless they would feel tough, or again, if money or orders. So don't give them a reason, until they start acting like the SS, and they will. Then, just do what our forefathers suggested; bear arms. Not pea-shooters, big enough to counter THEIR weapons. This IS the reason to bear arms. To keep us free of that kind of tyranny. 'If you don't want to go to war, be ready for one'.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:39 AM
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Being grounded would have no advantage as the high voltage is developed across the taser electrodes with no ground reference at all. The only defense is a highly conductive layer in your clothing which would prevent sufficient current flowing through the body to have any disabling effect on the victim. If that type of defense became commonplace it could be circumvented by insulating sleeves on the electrodes so that only the tips were exposed and any conductive clothing layers get bypassed.

Or a medieval type steel armour suit but you don't want to attract attention in first place



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 03:49 AM
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Run. Fast. And as many times as you've seen police on "COPS" catch a guy who's jumped a few fences, I can assure you that's a rarity.



Lace 'em up.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 04:47 AM
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Let me start off by saying I'm a cop. I've been on the force for 4 years and love my job. My department is looking into acquiring tasers for all officers. There are some things I just had to post to this topic, after a few weeks of merely browsing ATS.

The tasers my department want to get have an automatic camera attached that records video and audio every single time the taser is used. I doubt this would make anyone feel better about police officers carrying them, but it at least is a level of security over out of control officers.

As for beating the taser, I can't see it as possible for anything other than a type of clothing that would stop the prongs on the darts from touching your skin. The taser was demonstrated to us in a classroom environment. The darts are fired from the gun and spread as they fly. The ideal shot for an officer is both darts in the torso. A pull of the trigger will activate the taser for 5 seconds. The officer can not choose to shorten this. He can choose to shock again, but it will be for 5 seconds. Some things to consider:

1 - The shock is not supposed to be pain compliance. The flow of electricity is supposed to lock up your muscles, causing you to fall which ever way your leaning when shocked.

2 - Supposedly, even one prong in the skin can cause this effect.

3 - If the darts fail to attach, or miss, or fall out, the officer can still use the taser in direct contact mode.

4 - If the taser fails to subdue a subject, we would be authorized to the next step up in force if we still perceived a threat. When the department decides to allow the taser to be used determines what the next step will be. If the taser is the last resort before deadly force, then the next step is deadly force. If the taser is used earlier, like OC (pepper) spray, then the next step would be a hands on approach or baton. Either way, it wouldn't behoove someone to successfully resist the taser. I would suggest instead, when the taser comes in to play to immediately cease and desist and type of resistance. Lie down, face down with your hands extended out and allow yourself to be taken into custody.

The bottom line is, there are some cops on a total power trip that will abuse their authority. There will always be people like that. From my experience, they are few and far between but they exist. The amount of anti-police comments on this board is dismaying to me. The fact is, nobody is happy to have to see a police officer. Interaction with police generally occurs during traumatic times, whether you're the one in trouble or the one asking for help. All I can say is remember that most cops are real people out there doing a hard job in a world that is generally hostile to them. Myself and the cops I choose to hang out with will continue to do what we can to give cops a better name. Yourselves and the media can continue to oust the bad eggs and expose them, so they may be disciplined appropriately.

[edit on 22-9-2007 by icubitis]

[edit on 22-9-2007 by icubitis]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 05:10 AM
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The simplest way and most efficent method is to move out of the country, this will have succes 100%
As far as I know the U.S is the only country that issues tasers to cops for use on regular basis?



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by icubitis
 


Thank you for your service, and thankyou for not leaving after what must have been hurtfull reading, furthermore you responded calmly with information in a polite way, I salute you sir.

I think much of the backlash the police are getting is more then directed at them, it is directed at authority. This authority is currently represented by, as you know, Bush and company. You are part of that authority mechanism, so you absorb a part of the backlash against his actions.

Then these tasering instances come out and makes it even worse.

I did want to say I believe their is a circling of the wagons mentality in all organizations because of this, protest against authority, then trickles down to anger at police, this then creates a equally bad backlash with the police. They seem to stand up togther with the 'us and them' mentality. I specifically speak of crowd dispersal, not day to day patrolling.

This same transfer of animosity has been happening in inner cities for decades, economic disanfrnachisement transfered to dislike of authority.

What I am saying is yes their are many great carring police, and their are many great and carring people with greivances. We however seem to be polarizing.

I must tell my mental picture of some good police and their thought process.

"Ok I agree they have points, I don't like Bush either, but they can't keep blocking traffic. Ok my Sarge just said we have to disperse them, man this sucks. I wish it wasn't like this, Ok do what I have to, I got a morgage and a family, and they are breaking the law." They then arrest disperse and do what we have seen happen.

But somewhere in there a comradry and us vs them kicks in and it sometimes slips to "lets show them who is trained for this and knows whats what. and I got pepper spray and a taser."

How do police reconcile things like the removal of free speech, and their need to do their job?

How do you reconcile provocators that are sent in to create violence in a protest? I can only see this as a political, not a law enforcement move.

what would an officer do who feels things are unjust currently, lets say you knew of a overzelous officer who is doing wrong. Most people in life turn their head and ignore things like this, but you are special, you are the only ones that can do something. How do you balance the carreer and social destruction speaking out would cause vs the fact that you are the only one that has the power to enforce the laws?

Oh and part of the problem with tasers is it is way easier to zap then to subdue. If personal effort with a cuff and stuff where the same as zap and command, there might be less police falling back on it. This last event seems to combine lack of empathy with lazyness, as sad as that claim may be.

oh and welcome to ATS I am fairly new but have found it a great place to converse.

[edit on 22-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 12:29 PM
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I don't want to get off subject but being a cop and saying something like "Police like these are few and far between." Which may very well be true but seem like the very same relationship anyone could have with a neighbor, coworker, or a respected member of a church that goes home and beats up their wife every night, you know? "Oh, he couldn't of done that, he's just like anybody else. I just couldn't see him doing that! People from this city are good people and very few deviate from being good." And due to your environmental pressures for example, dealing with the worst of the worst, making quotas, and chasing little kids out of the 15 local Wal-marts, I completely understand where you'd grow to be irritated and aggressive. But being on the otherwise of the law like must of us here we can tell you not all police act according to their values and responsibility with which they are entrusted. In some communities even regarded as the best examples of what corrupt, untrustworthy, and needlessly aggressive truly are.

I don't want to come down on you or start some ridiculous argument that derails the thread anymore than I've already done but let me add that it's probably human nature that makes us act this way. Deeming anyone is superior or has authority over someone else in such a serious manner would tilt the psyche of anyone who would let it and in general... We'd let it.. And if you are an upstanding officer, I commend you. I enjoy bs'ing with a good cop. I was raised by a good one.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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tasers are pretty painful. but as one who owns a taser (and is known be easily dared into using it on myself for the price of a pizza), its something you cant build a direct tolerance to but to the pain it causes. if the fuzz is using a taser on you, though, you are not really in a position to recover as it does disorient for a few seconds (if not minutes).

dont get tased.... it sucks (unless you're real drunk and want some pizza
)



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 08:28 AM
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I received a Flyer in the mail this week from a fram store that sells Cattle Prods, they have a length of 2.5m and can produce upto 24watts... This sounds good to me, I am just gonna carry one of these around with me. It is the equivelent to the spear of old days. I beleive the idea of tai chi was a interesting idea. It's kind of like that video of Qui-Gon Magic where the man can produce electricity with his body. Perhaps it is possible, but When all else fails I dont think tai chi or Qui-Gon can protect you from a bullet. These are all great ideas everyone, I'd like to think you all for your input!



posted on Sep, 24 2007 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Pellevoisin
EDTA chelation -- get the heavy metals out of your system for starters.

Start practising Tai Chi and learn how to ground yourself to the Earth -- I know it sounds crazy, but think of it as training in how to channel energy through you and around you.


It's not the metals that do the trick. At any rate, you're chock full of metallic ions that you have to have in order to live (iron for example) so even if this was meaningful you couldn't do it.

The reason you're conductive is electrolytes, such as sodium, calcium and potassium ions which you also can't do without.

Finally - the taser is not ground referenced, so there is no voltage with respect to ground to "channel" if you could. The only way to "ground yourself to the Earth" in an electrical manner would be to take off a shoe and a sock and stand on damp earth. (edit - and even then, it wouldn't change anything)

There are taser shielded clothes - they aren't insulators but use a conductive mesh that shorts out the Taser's stimulus. They're expensive and tough to keep working reliably.

I'm quite surprised that protestors haven't all equipped themselves with Tasers and given the cops a surprise taste of their own medicine.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Tom Bedlam]



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