The problem with Scottish Freemasonry

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posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 05:46 AM
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This post isn't about the problem with Scottish Rite Freemasonry, but about the problem of Freemasonry in Scotland.

Most of you will already be familiar with the history of Freemasonry and it's origins in Scotland. So I ask, why has Freemasonry in Scotland become so corrupt, twisted and different from the values and ethos masonry is supposed to uphold?

My step-grandfather was the Grand Master of the Kilwinning lodge, Mother Lodge of Scotland. Again, those who know there history will know this lodge well. I recommend those who don't look it up. My brother-in-law is also a Master Mason at the same lodge.

Now, I always despised and mistrusted Masons, mostly because I grew up around the west coast of Scotland. Why? Becasue it is a twisted society of men that have no other reason to be there other than for personal gain above non-masons.

In the west coast of Scotland all masons are Protestants. This is because masonry, for some reason, has many links to a football team called Rangers from Glasgow and therefore Protestantism. It would be very very difficult to find a mason in the west coast of Scotland that is not a Rangers fan and therefore Protestant (we have a big Catholic/Protestant sectarian split relating to Celtic and Rangers football clubs respectively. There are many nutral fans as well but the game is marred by sectarianism).

Whe I learned about masonry and started to read up on it I was amazed at what I saw. Masons accept any religion, teach esoteric thinking and the handbook states all men should be kind and accepting no matter what their beliefs?!? This is the complete oposite to the Freemasonry I had grew up with.

I questioned my brother-in-law about what he gets up to. He is very secretive about it but got annoyed about me slagging him off about sun and goddess worship (i was just having a laugh cause it annoys him). He told me they learn nothing. Nothing esoteric at all. They just socialise and make 'business' connections. I asked for an explanation of this but he wouldn't give one. This has made me mistrust masonry even more.

I recently finished The Temple and the Lodge. A good read and very interesting. The section at the end really hit home to me why I really do not trust masonry.

Joseph Brant in 1776 during the colonists mission to Canada saw a man from the enemy being prepared to be burnt alive by his men. The man made the masonic sign of appeal and he ordered him released.

Joseph Clement, a British Mason from the 8th Foot, saw an Indian ready to scalp a colonial prisoner. The prisoner made the masonic sign of appeal and Clemet ordered the Indian off him and had him transported to a nearby farmhouse where he was nursed to health. Clement was later captured himself but luckily the jailor turned out to be the very man he had rescued, who returned the favour and set him free.

At the battle of Camden Baron de Kalb was mortally wounded. Cornwallis' second in command found him and, recognising him as a freemason, took him to Moira's tent who looked after him for 3 days and arranged for a masonic funeral when he died.

These seem like nice incidents of brotherly love between waring factions, however, if these people had not been masons they would have been left to die. This suggests to me there has been a history of thinking in masonry whereby masons consider themselves and their lives to be of more value than non-masons.

I belive this has carried over to Scottish masonry in that it is used to further people in an exclusive social club.

Masonry is very popular in the UK police force and judiciary system, to the point that the Home Secretary in 1998 almost ruled that they would have to declare this. This ruling never happened though. I wonder why. I doesn't give me much faith in the Scottish police force or judicial system.




posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by Nammu

Now, I always despised and mistrusted Masons, mostly because I grew up around the west coast of Scotland. Why? Becasue it is a twisted society of men that have no other reason to be there other than for personal gain above non-masons.

Thas always bothered me, it just seems wrong. Well that and the secrecy, I abhor secrecy when it is not a simple decision related to privacy of the individual. Swearing to uphold the secrecy of a dogma to death, and being willing to kill others is not what I consider right.

You have far more knowledge then me on the subject, but I wanted to purpose the posibility that General Albert Pike who wrote Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, 1871.

At the time his title was The Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite in Washington D.C.

I heard he pulled the masons even further into the occult.

Christian critisism of Masons.
www.godonthe.net...

Just a thought.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 06:17 AM
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Thanx for the link Redge. I'll have a read through it. The 'Is Masonry a religion' thing is a hard subject. To me it's a way of thinking like Kabbalah and not necessarily a religion unless you become orthodox. So it may be considered a religion by some and not by others, which is why that debate will continue forever probably.

The occult side of it at a lower level doesn't bother me too much. After all it was learning about freemasonry that got me into Kabbalah and I thank it for that. But I do believe that there is a hierarchy of secrecy and further up the ladder there is some very strange occult stuff going on at the top level. Mason's get really annoyed when non-masons suggest this is satanism, devil worshiping, whatever you want to call it, but until masons officially come out and go 'You know what guys, this is exactly what we get up to and what it means' there will always be a suspicion of fowl play and of a dark side. If it's hidden, then it's hidden for a reason, if you ask me.

Masons also always say that it is no longer a secret society and there's nothing that you won't learn in a lodge that you can't learn yourself. If that's the case then whay all the secrecy? I think some like the dark occult allegations and mysteriousness. Others just join cause it makes them feel like they belong to an organisation that makes them better than other people.

Even after all my research and reading. I really think this is the fundamental reason why anyone joins. To futher themselves above other people who don't belong the 'club'. From what i see of freemasonry in Scotland, no on is there to better themselves and learn moral values.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 06:19 AM
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Oh yeah, and I would really like some masons from the board to join in on this. You guys have taught me a lot about Freemasonry and opened up my eyes to what it should be, and I guess what it is in some places.

I would really appreciate your comments and insights.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by Nammu
I questioned my brother-in-law about what he gets up to. He is very secretive about it but got annoyed about me slagging him off about sun and goddess worship (i was just having a laugh cause it annoys him). He told me they learn nothing. Nothing esoteric at all. They just socialise and make 'business' connections. I asked for an explanation of this but he wouldn't give one. This has made me mistrust masonry even more.

I belive this has carried over to Scottish masonry in that it is used to further people in an exclusive social club.


trust me, there are just as many masons complaining about this as non-masons.

Plenty of people do this same exact thing with religion. Where I used to live, there were a few really exclusive churches. If you went there, you could see people basically conducting business meetings and networking with clients and etc. in the parkinglot before and after church, and even during service!

Luckily, Im not religious so I didn't take offense, but it was just the common way to do things. Everyone treating church as if it were a local business expo. So this isn't exclusive to masonry - but Masonry is NOT supposed to be a social club for business. There ARE indeed valuable things to be learned, but again it's like how I see Church. Lots of people join their local church because it improves their status, nothing more.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 


Exactly. This isn't an exclusive trait to Freemasonry, but it does go against what Freemasonry says it's about. There's nothing in the bible that says 'Though shalt not make business connections with members of the congregation that shall further you in the house of the Lord', but the Freemasonic handbook clrearly states that membership should not be used to further yourself.

It makes me think that if the lower levels are acting against the handbook then what the hell are the higher ones up to? How are non-masons ever expected to trust the organisation and how can masons get annoyed if they don't trust it?

I think it's weird with the religion/football team thing in Scotland as well. I've mentioned to a few Catholics (or at least Celtic fans) here about masonry and no one even knew they could join, cause it's a Protestant thing here. They would probably get refused membership even though that's against the belief as well. It's so strange.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by Nammu


Exactly. This isn't an exclusive trait to Freemasonry, but it does go against what Freemasonry says it's about. There's nothing in the bible that says 'Though shalt not make business connections with members of the congregation that shall further you in the house of the Lord', but the Freemasonic handbook clrearly states that membership should not be used to further yourself.


This is true, but it refers more to "mercenary motives", which the Candidate has vowed that he does not have when he takes the First Degree. For example, when I was initiated as an Apprentice many years ago, I promised that I did not have mercenary motives in joining, and was not seeking business connections, which was true.

But let's say, after several years, my house needs a new roof. Let's also suppose that I have a friend in the Lodge who is a roofer. Since I know this guy, and can trust him, I am much more likely to offer him the job than go to a stranger. This doesn't mean that either of us had "mercenary motives" when becoming Masons.


It makes me think that if the lower levels are acting against the handbook then what the hell are the higher ones up to? How are non-masons ever expected to trust the organisation and how can masons get annoyed if they don't trust it?


From my experience, for the most part, Freemasons honor their original word. There are of course exceptions, but most keep their vows to the best of their ability.

As for the *organization* being trusted, I think you used the key word. There's nothing wrong with the organization itself. When some sort of wrongdoing takes place, it happens by a particular member, not by the organization, which opposes all forms of wrongdoing.


I've mentioned to a few Catholics (or at least Celtic fans) here about masonry and no one even knew they could join, cause it's a Protestant thing here. They would probably get refused membership even though that's against the belief as well. It's so strange.


Freemasonry has never barred Catholics from joining. However, the Roman Catholic Church considers any Catholic who becomes a Freemason to be ipso facto excommunicated. We don't have anything against the Catholic Church per se. We have only been critical of the Church's actions when it attempts to usurp the rights of the individual. As long as the Church doesn't try to force anything on people who disagree with it and respects the rights of others to disagree, Masons have no problem with the Catholic Church, and wish them well.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Nammu
But I do believe that there is a hierarchy of secrecy and further up the ladder there is some very strange occult stuff going on at the top level.


I suppose that would depend on what you mean by "strange occult stuff" and "top level". It must be borne in mind that the vast majority of Masons have absolutely no interest in the occult whatsoever. It is true that some mystical and occult views are expressed in Masonry, especially those of the Kabalah, but only a few Masons here and there ever take an interest in them.

Albert Pike, who revised the Scottish Rite rituals for the Southern Jurisdiction of the USA, says in the ceremony of the 28° that Masonry possesses or teaches no occult knowledge that is not already available to the public at large. This is a true statement, and anybody with a library card can check out a book on the Kabalah and learn the same things that are said about mysticism in Masonic ceremonies.



Mason's get really annoyed when non-masons suggest this is satanism, devil worshiping, whatever you want to call it, but until masons officially come out and go 'You know what guys, this is exactly what we get up to and what it means' there will always be a suspicion of fowl play and of a dark side. If it's hidden, then it's hidden for a reason, if you ask me.


The problem arises when people who have no background in Masonry, and no understanding of mysticism, pick up Masonic books that mention "the occult". When Masonic authors talk about "the occult", they are generally referring to the Kabalah, Hermeticism, and Alchemy. The non-Mason who has no previous knowledge of mysticism and metaphysics, thinks "devil worship" when he reads the word "occult". This is due to both Hollywood and anti-Masonic propaganda, not anything in actual Freemasonry.

There is no "devil worship" in Freemasonry, nor are Masons even required to believe in the devil.

As for it being "hidden", there is really no Masonic teaching that is hidden. All Masonic teachings are available to anyone interested in them in thousands of good Masonic books.


Masons also always say that it is no longer a secret society and there's nothing that you won't learn in a lodge that you can't learn yourself. If that's the case then whay all the secrecy? I think some like the dark occult allegations and mysteriousness. Others just join cause it makes them feel like they belong to an organisation that makes them better than other people.


Secrecy is of course no longer necessary in a free and democratic society, although at one time, secrecy was an absolute must. Discussing such doctrines such as the Kabalah, Buddhism, Sufism, etc., could be considered a crime punishable by death. Today, for us, this is no longer the case, but the classical form of the fraternity as a "secret society" still stands out of respect for tradition. Furthermore, it could be argued that while Lodge secrecy itself may be sort of silly these days, secrecy in and of itself could be seen as an important symbol.


Even after all my research and reading. I really think this is the fundamental reason why anyone joins. To futher themselves above other people who don't belong the 'club'. From what i see of freemasonry in Scotland, no on is there to better themselves and learn moral values.


I've never been to Scotland, but several Scottish Brethren have visited my Lodge. There were four of them, and they arrived in full formal Highland dress, very impressive. We showed them around town while they were here, and I got to know them reasonably well. They were all from Edinburgh, and they were great guys. I can't of course comment on all Scottish Brethren, but these guys were very good examples of what Masons should be.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Freemasonry has never barred Catholics from joining...
...We don't have anything against the Catholic Church per se. We have only been critical of the Church's actions when it attempts to usurp the rights of the individual. As long as the Church doesn't try to force anything on people who disagree with it and respects the rights of others to disagree, Masons have no problem with the Catholic Church, and wish them well.


Unless a Catholic gets elected as president, then says secrecy goes against the values of America and freedom, and plans to change the Fed Reserve.

Then secret societies (not specifically the masons, and including upper intelligence agencies) send previously mentioned President on a slow drive through a tight corner in Daley Plaza Texas.

Ok not fair to jump on Mason's here, I am grouping them together with other secret orders. Note that I saw on a wall of an elite secret society a calendar, it had Kennedy's assasination date marked as the day of the revolution.(it was not a Masonic Lodge)

Just trying to lighten the mood, you seem like a good guy from your post, no offence directed at you.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by Redge777
 


No problem. And Kennedy, while not a Mason himself, was at least a nominal friend of Masonry. During his presidency, an international convention of the Scottish Rite was held at the headquarters of the Supreme Council 33° in Washington, D.C.

JFK invited the delgates to the White House, where he addressed them on the lawn. He spoke of his admiration for Freemasonry's community services and Masonic charities. Brother Henry C. Clausen, 33°, who at that time was serving the Supreme Council as Grand Commander, presented JFK with a plaque in token of appreciation. It is also my understanding that JFK was a member of the Knights of Columbus, a catholic fraternal order similar in many aspects to Masonry.

Also, the Catholic ban on Freemasonry is not universally enforced in the United States. There are at least two members of my Lodge that I am aware of who are Roman Catholics, and Brother Appak, a member here at ATS, is both a Roman Catholic and a 33° Scottish Rite Mason.



posted on Sep, 21 2007 @ 07:58 PM
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Hi Nammu

I'd like to give my perspective on your original post, if I may


Originally posted by Nammu
My step-grandfather was the Grand Master of the Kilwinning lodge, Mother Lodge of Scotland. Again, those who know there history will know this lodge well. I recommend those who don't look it up. My brother-in-law is also a Master Mason at the same lodge.

As a British freemason I am quite familiar with the Lodge Kilwinning, an ancient and well respected lodge.


In the west coast of Scotland all masons are Protestants.

I've made the pont several times in other threads that local freemasonry is a product of the society or culture in which it is embedded. In this sense, Scottish freemasonry suffers from a similar problem to freemasonry in the Deep South of the US - sectarianism instead of racism but the issue is the same. Where there is an endemic cultural issue at a local level this will inevitably roll over into all aspects of that culture, notably the clubs and organizations within that society, and freemasonry is no exception to this. However I don't think this is the whole story. The ban on catholics joining freemasonry is obviously a part of this, as is the problem of correcting the problem - as catholics would not want to join an organization seen as predominantly Protestant under these local circumstances anyway.

The irony here is that freemasonry is about as non-sectarian as an organization can be. Discussions of a religious nature are entirely banned from lodge, and one would have thought that if sectarian differences could be put aside anywhere it would be in lodge.

But this is not the case, for no matter how many times freemasonry emphasizes its own ethos, the strength of the local culture will prevail. That's why English freemasons are traditional and like their ceremonies, why American Freemasons are more relaxed and democratic, and why French freemasons like to spend their time showing how different they are to the Anglo-Saxon ones



Whe I learned about masonry and started to read up on it I was amazed at what I saw. Masons accept any religion, teach esoteric thinking and the handbook states all men should be kind and accepting no matter what their beliefs?!? This is the complete oposite to the Freemasonry I had grew up with.

This would imply that the principles of the organization are fine, but it is the individual's understanding of it which is at fault.


I questioned my brother-in-law about what he gets up to... (snip) ... He told me they learn nothing. Nothing esoteric at all. They just socialise and make 'business' connections.

This is true of too many freemasons. While socialising is an integral component of freemasonry, making business connections is not. Their complete lack of understanding of the potential of freemasonry is their problem insofar as they are not getting the benefit. There are networkers absolutely everywhere, freemasonry is not immune from them.


I recently finished The Temple and the Lodge. A good read and very interesting. The section at the end really hit home to me why I really do not trust masonry... (snip) ... These seem like nice incidents of brotherly love between waring factions, however, if these people had not been masons they would have been left to die. This suggests to me there has been a history of thinking in masonry whereby masons consider themselves and their lives to be of more value than non-masons.

Freemasonry is one big family. The concepts and aspirations that bind us together run deep. Would you prefer a stranger over a friend in similar circumstances? Your point about perfect equality is wonderful, but if that were truly the case there wouldn't have been any wars in the first place to allow these incidents to happen!

Incidentally, statistically you can't take these stories too seriously. There is never any mention of the freemasons who gave a brother a sign of distress and it didn't do any good.


Masonry is very popular in the UK police force and judiciary system, to the point that the Home Secretary in 1998 almost ruled that they would have to declare this.

This is an urban myth. Freemasons in the judiciary and the police in England and Wales were requested by the government to declare their membership of freemasonry, which of all the organizations in the county was singled out because of an alleged "public perception". The results revealed that statistically membership in freemasonry is not appreciably higher than in the general population. The net result though has been a collapse in masonic membership of policemen in particular, as masonic membership in the police force is now the kiss of death for a career bobby.

This ruling never happened though. I wonder why. I doesn't give me much faith in the Scottish police force or judicial system.

The ruling never happened because it was found to be illegal under European Human Rights legislation. It is illegal to discriminate against a specific group or organization without due cause, and of course there was no justification other than the political convenience of scapegoating an organization that is an easy target.



posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 07:32 AM
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I wish I could remember the source but I read that in earlier times many "sects" of freemasonry opened like in england I believe two had formed and there was much disagreement and they joined ultimately. Now in relation to that I thought I read in Scotland there was something that tainted some lodges or the majority but I never researched further. As far as the claims of sports and Caths versus Prots no idea. If your relatives that are masons havn't learned anything from the degrees I feel sorry for them. For what you say about them it seems they ignored the degrees "points".



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by diedagaincraftsmen
I wish I could remember the source but I read that in earlier times many "sects" of freemasonry opened like in england I believe two had formed and there was much disagreement and they joined ultimately.

Sounds like you are thinking of the early development of freemasonry in the 18th century in England. Some 36 years after the first grand lodge was founded, a second came into being through dissatisfaction in some quarters with the first. They ultimately merged after another 62 years of parallel running.





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