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Iran's Ahmadinejad to speak at US university

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posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by carewemust
 


So you are advocating the murder of an innocent person because of his beliefs?

The weirdness of some people belies belief.

Should I demand you be murdered because your beliefs are not the same as mine?
Where do you draw the line?
I know, lets murder all Jews because of their funny hats and funny hair?
NO, lets murder all the mentally disturbed people?
Hey lets also murder all gypsies?
You could build some sort of big camp, then some sort of big gas chamber.............................




posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Native Americans
French Indian wars

I am not even going to respond to this point because its so crazy.

Native Americans might call it something else. It also explains alot White Mans Burden, and Manifest Destiny can explain the lack of understanding and mind set of the NeoCon Elites today.

Mexican-American war The Mexican War between the United States and Mexico began with a Mexican attack on American troops along the southern border of Texas. This is what happens when you lose war. You lose land. Plus we paid I think 15 million for the land.

The Mexican War between the United States and Mexico began with the US annexation of Mexican owned Texas. You see we had settlers their and took it by decrere from Mexico. The people at the Alamo were not the only people in Texas, there were Mexicans there also (Tejano) 33% of population and they were their before American settlers.
Yes money was given. That money thing sure makes things OK


Spanish American war We invaded Cuba, we took possesion of Guam ,Puerto Rica and ,The Phillipeans Really? Are they part of the U.S. currently? Didn't think so.

Puerto Rico is an unincorporated territory of the United States with Commonwealth status, check the history, some even wanted to make it the 51 state.
Guam is a organized unincorporated territory of the United States.
Phillipeans we gave back in 1946 after WW2 But we maintained pro western governments, read up on Marcos he is a fun one, his wife litterally had thousands of pairs of shoes, while the people starved.
The Imperialism then and yellow journalism can actually teach a person alot about today.


WW2 West Germany American sector and Japan Come on now! You do realize these are not invasions. We are not there taking control of their land.
They are soverign nations right? We were fighting a war. Are you saying we should not have fought?

These are not resource puppets I agree, but I am answering your question, and a sovern nation that is set up with the same idiological and more importantly economic system as the US is although not militarialy controlled it is still a form of expansion. They have been self governing within the limitations of their media systems for awhile. And both are part of the G8 World Economic Government.


Iraq Same applies here. We are not there to take over their country. We will leave and let the Iraq govern themselves.

And you think we will leave why? Because Bush said so right. We may leave someday, but did you know one of the benchmarks we set says they have to set a council up to control their oil, that council will have 1 seat for each world oil company. No kidding I can source this. Our goal is to take control of the oil countries that currently do not bow to the World Bank and make money for multinational companies.


You are being really disingenuous with these so called examples.
Just as I thought, you could not come up with any 'real' examples.

I understand you need to believe that, but what would qualify as an answer to the question you asked. You ignore or trivalize my accurate responces that answered your question.

4thDoctorWhoFan - "Please list a nation the U.S. has invaded in order to take over their land and conquer them permantly."

Granted permantly is a hard once since it goes till the sun explodes, So I took it to mean untill the system is one that is under the control of the money and power of the USA.

Invaded? invasions take many forms but I gave examples where US soldiers went in and stayed till a government was established and economic control was established. After the militarily invaded Cuba and set up a government, we then move in with economic Imperialism. It was this that led to Castro Revolution, and the only reason we do not today have Cuba still taken over and conquered. Note some wanted to go to nuke war if thats what it took to retake Cuba by force. We not only took it, then tried to retake it and failed (bay of pigs) we almost went to nuke war over it. Don't worry your side got even for the decision of Kenedy to not invade.

As far as taking someones country and land, guess who gets the resources when we move in a military and set up a puppet govenment, US companies.

I don't know what
means.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Navieko
 

Actually, by "rising up", I mean literally rising up. not people with sign posts etc, I mean torching cars, forming secret societies in the wilderness, and actively working to bring down aqua velva jad.


Read up on the success of Ghandi.

Violence plays into the hands of oppression, it allows them to give a reason for further oppression. This is why police put undercover agents into protest with masks and rocks, to start violence and get it on film, so the points made by the protesters can be disregarded by those who do not want to face hard questions. I can source this. or google provacators.

If everyone in America did not go to work tommorow things would change in about a week, violence is not needed, their power is us worshiping the dollars they hold, that is why they want us consumed with owning more and more, and to think our value comes from what we own.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by khunmoon
Anyway I remember round the time of the British sailors held hostage, a member from Iran was on the boards. I do not remeber his name, but I can find it if you want. Not sure whether T&C would deem it namecalling.


Brother's screen name was Mehran. And I don't think it infringes the T&C, we're not divulging any personal information nor are we discussing him per se. This is in response to jsobecky's assertion that there aren't any Iranians on the boards because the Iran gov. censors them.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by carewemust
After all these years of technological advancement by the CIA, you'd
think that they would have a way of injecting him with something from
a distance that would cause death a few weeks from now. ATS is full
of threads discussing alleged ultra-secret technologies. I find it hard
to believe that we can't covertly terminate one person in order to
save millions of human lives down the road and avoid spending
billions of dollars to find this guy after he goes into hiding (ala Bin
Laden) after the atrocities are committed. It just makes sense..
doesn't it?

Well you have to know something about Iranian governmental structure. Their president has no power, they are a theocracy where councils of religious officials make all the decisions. This guy is just a spokesmen like an ambassador.

Killing an enemy only steels the resolve of his people. If we were to really do anything we would discredit him first then let his own people kill him, or better yet let him run to another country, but this is irrelevant since he has no power. It would also take some good fakery to get them to believe it. People are very resistant to changeing their beliefs.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 05:10 AM
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reply to post by prona


and

reply to post by carewemust
 


Iran and Ahmadinejad in particular seems to make some people here lose any sense of proportions.

If they not utter downright threats of killing him or indulge in wishful thinking on how he should die, they complain about their taxdollar, what it is spend for.

Observing the motto of this site it makes me wonder if they at all know what their taxdollar is used for.

Well, a moment of truth might be needed and here it comes:

EVERY SECOND HALF A MILLION DOLLARS IS SPEND IN IRAQ!!

Wonder if Ahmadinejad's visit cost you half a minute of war.

Should you feel like enlighten youself a bit on the issue, here's a thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

For Chorlton: sorry for taken your thread off-topic, but sometimes you have to educate less enlightened members.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 05:32 AM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 


Thanks Beachcoma, for the addition. I remember the brothet you mention, but the one I was thinking about was zurvan. It makes two from Iran at least.

Anyway I would like to know were I can find the stats on member (IPs) origin.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 


The only thing I could get is this:

The AboveTopSecret.com Media Kit

That only lists the top visiting countries. There used to be a more detailed statistics page, I think. Can't find it.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Beachcoma]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 



Originally posted by khunmoon
reply to post by jsobecky
 


Excactly were did you find those stats? Never seen stats on country origin of ATS posts.

It was in the "About ATS" section at the bottom of the screen, iirc.


Originally posted by khunmoon
You're welcome to U2 me if you don't wanna post it here, as I will U2 the screenname of the Iranian poster, if you insists.

Not necessary, thanks. I believe that some traffic gets out of Iran. But there is no denying that their use of the internet is very heavily censored:


Iran has adopted one of the world's most substantial Internet censorship regimes. Iran, along with China, is among a small group of states with the most sophisticated state-mandated filtering systems in the world. Iran has adopted this extensive filtering regime at a time of extraordinary growth in Internet usage among its citizens and a burst of growth in writing online in the Farsi language. As this report demonstrates, Iran's sophisticated Internet censorship regime is part of a trend that the OpenNet Initiative's research has uncovered toward states focusing on blocking expression in local languages, such as Farsi, and with a particular view toward clamping down on what can be published through inexpensive and popular applications, such as weblogs.

www.opennetinitiative.net...



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 



Originally posted by khunmoon
Thanks Beachcoma, for the addition. I remember the brothet you mention, but the one I was thinking about was zurvan. It makes two from Iran at least.

Anyway I would like to know were I can find the stats on member (IPs) origin.

Two, out of a population of over 71 million people? With all the attention our countries are paying each other?

And a clarification - I never said member's IP origins. I said countries of origin.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 08:32 AM
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I am watching MSNBC spin on Ahmadinejad right now, the pundit is calling him crazy, not once 4 times, she just commented on the way he dresses, she said we should have all women police that are Jewish guarding him.

They say he is propagandizing, the subjigation of the people of Iran, and the destruction of US military in Iraq.

I am glad they are reporting news without a bias. equal time anyone?

They also called him a dictator and leader, they either don't know how Iran makes decisions or don't care.

whoops Media just screwed up, they been calling him a dictator, they moved to call him a liar 3 or 4 times then they said he lied this he lied that then "he lied thats how he got elected" whoops sounds like they are confused to me.


I do not support Iran, I am just pointing out US propaganda

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Redge777]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 10:14 AM
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Ahmadinejad: "Death to America!"

...And one day before leaving for the US, Ahmadinejad presided over a military parade that flew banners saying "Death to America" and Death to Israel".




UPDATE at 9/22/07 12:13:28 pm:

Several Arabic-speaking readers have emailed to let me know that the slogan in Arabic script, above “Down with USA/Esrail,” actually says “DEATH to USA/Israel.”

littlegreenfootballs.com...(Update-_Arabic_Reads_Death_to_USA)&only



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Gotta laugh at all these poepel saying that he is intelligent etc because of the letter he wrote to Bush and his speaches. Reality flash channces are he didn't write any of those but rather his aides did
That's what politicians do.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777

Read up on the success of Ghandi.

Violence plays into the hands of oppression, it allows them to give a reason for further oppression. This is why police put undercover agents into protest with masks and rocks, to start violence and get it on film, so the points made by the protesters can be disregarded by those who do not want to face hard questions. I can source this. or google provacators.

If everyone in America did not go to work tommorow things would change in about a week, violence is not needed, their power is us worshiping the dollars they hold, that is why they want us consumed with owning more and more, and to think our value comes from what we own.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Redge777]


I agree with you highly, yes, but Violence has it's good uses and bad. Iran is one with a good use. I don't know about you, but when people have nukes, who cares, when they have nukes and promise they'll use them, it's time to kill them. Peace is good and all, but for some, it never works. There is something about Middle Eastern and asian culture that makes peaceful protests virtually useless. They'll just shoot you down. Look at China. tiananmen square? Some nations are easily destroyed via peace, like European ones, who will bow down to superior forces. But for all other nations, well, we never back down. USA took 14 or so years to give up in Vietnam. There are only a few we have given up on for that matter.

Iran is one of those countries that simply cannot be destroyed by peaceful protests. If the protesters are shot dead on spot, and their media covers it up as rebels, nothing more, then how will such a thing ever succeed?

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Gorman91]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 



Off topic:


Please list a nation the U.S. has invaded in order to take over their land and conquer them permantly.


Canada.

War of 1812

www.straightdope.com...

On topic:

I don't understand why the big deal about this guy speaking at Columbia. Why not just hear the man out and judge what we says for yourself. There seems to be a lot of talk of his propaganda and the like, but if you read what is being written here by quite a few members, it's the exact same thing. Advocating the murder of a human being for words?
That concept is just to much for me to comprehend.


Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
There is NO way I could imagine Hitler coming to the U.S. and give a speech at a university. Its just absurd and ludicrous!
Have some self respect people and don't get swindled by this dictator.


Equating this man with Hitler is wrong. Hitler caused the deaths of millions of people. Hitler was a war criminal. Show me were Ahmadinejad is responsible for any such attrocities.


If fact, I bet you cannot even tell me one credible thing that the current U.S. administration has said that compares to Iran.


www.whitehouse.gov...


Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.



But the only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it, and destroy it where it grows.



These demands are not open to negotiation or discussion. The Taliban must act, and act immediately. They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate.


I would say that's pretty close.


Don't you realize he is NOT going to say what he really means. He will only lie and spew his propaganda in order to further his cause.


The same could be said about the current leadership of America.


All you offer is your opinion which is fine but don't act like its fact. However, when I offer my opinion backed up with fact


Going through your posts in this thread, I haven't found anything resembling proof or fact. No quotes or links just hate filled rhetoric.


I don't agree with what Ahmadinejad says but he should have the ability to address an open forum of people who want to hear what he has to say, straight from his own mouth and in his own word's. Hopefully it's not all scripted and there will be lots of questions that address all the concerns of the American people. At least Ahmadinejad will get to answer them directly.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
I agree with you highly, yes, but Violence has it's good uses and bad. Iran is one with a good use. I don't know about you, but when people have nukes, who cares, when they have nukes and promise they'll use them, it's time to kill them.


I guess my disagreement is I don't believe they will have nukes soon if ever. I offer this thread to explain my reason.

and 5 star post on this page
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And the Scott Ritter interview video earlier in this thread. UN Weapon Inspector 1991 1998



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:56 PM
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People are seriously crazy. Killing someone because you dont like his clothes or beliefs? Thats what Hitler did! Millions of them. Maybe your largest fan is Hitler in this world, I dont know. Bush is a war criminal, much like Hitler was. So maybe it makes sense to support the same kind of politics for some people. Just realize thats what you are doing.

Guess who used FEAR to get people to agree with whatever the leaders did? Hitler. Guess who does it today? Bush.

Have a nice day.


[edit on 23-9-2007 by Copernicus]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by Chorlton
 


Chorlton, if I were the leader of a country with the capabilities of
Iran and stated that Israel, or any other country should be wiped
off the map, I would expect to be murdered.

The medical concept of using chemo to zap a deadly form of cancer
before it can spread and cause death is the exact same concept that
applies to fanatics who have the power and will to kill off a country.

We just don't know yet whether Ahmadinejad is serious like Hitler,
or a blow-hard like Castro. So, I wouldn't advocate eradicating him
quite yet, but a time of decision will arrive at some point. As long as
he's in the Castro mode, no problem. But the moment he appears to
begin activating missles, swift action must be taken. I'm sure the
USA and possibly others are ready should the time come. -cwm



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by carewemust
reply to post by Chorlton
 


Chorlton, if I were the leader of a country with the capabilities of
Iran and stated that Israel, or any other country should be wiped
off the map, I would expect to be murdered.

Scuse me, didnt Gearge W Bush say the same thing about Saddam Hussein?


The medical concept of using chemo to zap a deadly form of cancer
before it can spread and cause death is the exact same concept that
applies to fanatics who have the power and will to kill off a country.

Dont apply scientific analogies to human beings it is not the same


We just don't know yet whether Ahmadinejad is serious like Hitler,
or a blow-hard like Castro. So, I wouldn't advocate eradicating him
quite yet, but a time of decision will arrive at some point. As long as
he's in the Castro mode, no problem. But the moment he appears to
begin activating missles, swift action must be taken. I'm sure the
USA and possibly others are ready should the time come. -cwm


I think you can count the UK out, I doubt any country within the EU would support you also.
America isnt the policeman of the world. Live with it.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan

Originally posted by johnsky
The Iranian people are really not that much different from us.


See, we finally agree on something. The Iranian people really are not that different from us. In fact, they are very 'westernized'. Unfortunately for them, they are being run and controlled by lunatics.



Like he said... They're exactly like us. Majority of good people, trying to live their lives the best they can without interference from their government or neighbor. Nonetheless controlled by power hungry lunatics.

The difference between our country and theirs is that we have the capabilities as a military force to directly affect their way of life. They do not. We all know and see how detrimental our actions were in Iraq to a nation that for the most part , entirely stable(If anyone of you bring up anything implying I'm justifying Sadam I'll fly out to where ever you are and we're going to throwdown). With the 80,000 civilians dead and 4,000 of our own troops with millions displaced from their homes. More war is the furthest thing from being the solution to Iran or any other nation.

No more of this..

Put the leaders in a unedited public forum and let them talk. It would speak VOLUMES to the citizens of both countries.

4thDoctorWhoFan, There's no need for a "with us or against us" attitude. There's an entire grey area you've yet to consider.



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